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Jastor
9 March 2002, 08:12 PM
1) The destruction of Alderaan was an unprovoked attack on a world unable to fight back. It was ordered for no other purpose than to cause a native of that world emotional pain and distress. Furthermore, the person giving the order was not the only one complicit in the act. Tarkin's orders could have been refused by the gunners. The argument that "they would have been shot and replaced by loyal gunners" is not valid as this would imply that the dissenters were atypical and the replacements are not.

2) General Evir Derricote ordered the creation of a virus designed to kill anything that isn't human. While he ordered the creation of the virus, his scientists were the ones who actually did it. His troops were the ones who actually deployed it. It was not merely the actions of one man, but the actions of hundreds.

3) Slavery and repression of non-humans is an Empire-wide institution. Entire species have been enslaved by the Empire and forced to work under suicidal working conditions. Many clearly sentient species have the same legal status as pets. Indeed, many are kept AS pets.


1) im not an trained imperial gunner, nor have ever seen IRL an imperial ship so i may be wrong, but isnt a reasonable theory that the gunners had no idea of what they shot at? they get order : "shoot at theese coordinates"

2) one word: "need to know basis". IF the troops knew what they did, i think more than one would stop and think twice. for the scientists. well what can i say? theyre loyal to the empire, or mayby feared for their lives, or their families. this is a common thing in star wars: even if they dont like it, most beings would prefer that others died instead of him/her/it

3) no comments about slavery.. but keep in mind that not only slaves was sent to thoose places, but also dangerous criminals, that deserved to spend their last days on some mining planet. even if its horrible, it doesnt mean not everyone deserves it.

the empire is evil.. it really is, and it openly uses slaves and thinks of non-humans as lesser beeings, but it stands for control "peace and order" (well not for all ;) ) but look at it. its like that african country (where its an election soon) . its evil and crude, but not for all.

im an imperialist, but i see it from the both sides. and frankly.. star wars is made up science fiction, so i had no idea that people could get so personaly offended while discussing things that occured in it.

Grand Admiral Jason
10 March 2002, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by Jastor
2) one word: "need to know basis". IF the troops knew what they did, i think more than one would stop and think twice. for the scientists. well what can i say? theyre loyal to the empire, or mayby feared for their lives, or their families. this is a common thing in star wars: even if they dont like it, most beings would prefer that others died instead of him/her/it.

If the scientist feared for their lives or their families lives, that is a sign of evilniess, by ruling by fear.

Jastor
10 March 2002, 06:31 AM
according to the jedi yes :)

but i would call it survival instinct more than beeing evil

Grand Admiral Jason
10 March 2002, 06:48 AM
I'm going to post something from X-Wing:Bacta War

"But, if we don't deliver this bacta, Isard will have are families killed." quote from Bacta Hauler captain after being captured by Rogue Squadron.

Rick Vogt
10 March 2002, 10:22 AM
Well, I think this post got started by the Galactic Empire poll......

I started to post on this subject many times....but haven't. I've had a bit of time to think on it. My opinion probably won't be the popular one, but it is mine never the less.

The Empire is evil. The empire has a sith lord at it's head, and does some of the most unscrupulous things ever imagined. While I don't believe everyone in the empire is evil.....it is evil in and of itself.

There are many thoughts to go by on this subject, and it's not easy to make a decision....it just depends on your attitude. The people doing the dirty work for the empire are almost totally ignorant about what they are shooting with the death star, and the others are just plain coherced into doing things that they wouldn't even dare to do otherwise (Another fine trait of evil).

To put this in a perspective most of us will understand,(even thought it's kind of reversed), The people of Afganistan aren't evil.....even though the people who did some evil things are from there. Another way to look at it.......Hitler was for all intents and purposes Germany...but Germany wasn't Hitler.....he was a man much like the emporer.....strong enought to take control of something......and mean enough to coherce those who didn't subscribe to his theory.

The guilt by association isn't a good thought train for me......even though it's supported in the court of law, doesn't mean it's the correct thing to think at all times.

The people serving the empire are more or less just good people who got caught in a bad thing. Most are common people who were either too weak to fight for themselves, or had too much to lose by saying no.

The rest probably knew what was up going in, so they ARE just as evil as the emperor, and the others.

The reason the Rebels formed is because they realized that left unchecked, the empire would consume all planets and use them at their disposal....they HAD to fight for those who couldn't or wouldn't fight for themselves.........much like the men and women of the military function for US this very day.

Well....that's my 2 creds worth on this one.

Grimace
10 March 2002, 12:16 PM
I closed down the prior incarnation of this thread due to the fact that people couldn't handle discussing political viewpoints of Star Wars without offending others or putting down another's country.

If there are any name calling, insults, attacks on another's country, or general heat-up of tempers on this thread, it will get closed down, and all further incarnations of it will also be closed.

So if you find yourself getting upset, simply don't post, as you'll end up ruining the thread for everyone else.

Rick Vogt
10 March 2002, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Grimace
I closed down the prior incarnation of this thread due to the fact that people couldn't handle discussing political viewpoints of Star Wars without offending others or putting down another's country.

If there are any name calling, insults, attacks on another's country, or general heat-up of tempers on this thread, it will get closed down, and all further incarnations of it will also be closed.

So if you find yourself getting upset, simply don't post, as you'll end up ruining the thread for everyone else.

I guess this was aimed at me........I have to let you in on something.......I wasn't irritated or disgruntled...or anything like that....I used no bold type words...and only used some fully capitalized words to emphasize a few key words.

As to the name calling and Country degrading.....I was not doing that...as I am of German decent...my father was full blooded German....I am proud of my father and everything...but what happened there was most definetly a good comparison.

If what I said was taken the wrong way...then please forgive my ignorance and accept my apology.

I was just trying to post an intelligent reply to an intelligent querry.

*******Please note this edit......

I went and read the original post......I can understand why this post may have seemed unappealing.......and since things turned so poorly over there, (rather quickly..I might add), I understand your post...... just please try to see that I wasn't trying to do ther same all over again.

hotten2
10 March 2002, 01:47 PM
If there are any name calling, insults, attacks on another's country
what about germany? im offended!

Grimace
10 March 2002, 02:33 PM
My post was not directed towards anyone in particular, but rather all potential posters in general. No need for apologies at this time, unless you feel that you've actually done something wrong.

Superdog
19 March 2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by hotten2

what about germany? im offended!

You don't even know what it is, but you're offended?

Soontide
19 March 2002, 07:13 PM
Many people say that the empire was evil and that the emperor, by virtue of being a "dark lord" of the sith made him evil. I propose that we get this view because we were seeing the man from the perspective of his enemies. It has been common practice to vilify the enemy in most cultures since the beginning of time. Call them evil, dark, and accuse them of everything possible to make them seem as bad as possible.
I contend that the emperor was trying to restore stability to a galaxy wide civilization at a time when the government in power was corrupt and unwieldy(the old republic). His tactics may have been questionable in the extreme, but a person who is misguided is not necessarily evil. His dream might have been a galaxy at peace with itself, without conflict, without death from violence.
some comparisons to think on about who was the good guys in the movies.
1) The empire was active in the are of hunting down and shutting down smuggling rings which transported illegal drugs from one system to another.
The rebellion gained at least some of its operational credits from the sale and distribution of said substances.
2) The empire was extremely hard on pirates and had a specific corp of law enforcement dedicated to the reduction of piracy.
The rebellion activly recruited pirates into its ranks.
3) Alderaan, peaceful and unarmed? Not according to its senator who stated that alderaan was one of the largest supporters of the rebellion and the supreme senator(Bail Organa) was activly trying to rearm his people against the lawful government.

These three points illustrate a very profound aspect of Star Wars. The truth is only what you make it. Yes, the Empire did some very evil seeming things, but they also seemed to attempt to limit collateral damage, keep the peace, and attempted to restore some sort of order to the galaxy. The Evil Empire? I think more likely the misportrayed Empire.
Lastly, I think the Empire were actually the good guys becuase they had the coolest uniforms by far. HEHE.
I hope everyone enjoys this post. or at least, it causes some thinking about the nature of truth and its always being from a certian perspective.