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Grand Admiral Jason
10 March 2002, 09:03 AM
I know that ISD IIs are more powerfull than ISD Is, but what is the external difference? :?

Nazgul
10 March 2002, 09:59 AM
I think the ISD in ANH was a type I and all the ones in ESB and RotJ were type IIs. They just looked different to me, nothing I can say for sure, :)

dgswensen
10 March 2002, 10:09 AM
According to the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels:

An upgraded version called the Imperial II began appearing shortly after the Battle of Yavin, boasting a heavily reinforced hull and more powerful heavy turbolaser batteries and cannons.

Also, here is a rundown on the Imperial-I and Imperial-II from the online Star Wars Encyclopedia:

<B>Imperial-I class Star Destroyer </B>

Built at the Kuat Drive Yards, this medium-duty Imperial capital ship is the version used in the Emperor Palpatine's Navy. The wedge-shaped Imperial-I class Star Destroyer measured 1,600 meters in length, and was manned by 36,810 crewers and 275 gunners. It could also transport up to 1,200 troops. Jedi Search quotes the Imperial-I class is manned by 37,000 crewers and can carry 9,700 troops. Its top sublight speed is 60 MGLT, and its hull has been rated at 150 RU. Despite its formidable appearance, Talon Karrde once stated that the Imperial-class had 174,000 design flaws waiting to be exploited.
It boasts the following shipboard systems:
- Om-Thaim Broadcast Banner Shield Generator (the round towers on top) rated at 300 SBD
- 60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannon Batteries
- 10 Phylon-Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors
- Seinar Fleet Systems I-a2b Solar Ionization Reactor and Stardrive
- 60 Taim and Bak XX9 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries
- LeGrange Targetting Computers
- Seinar Fleet Systems S-s3a Long Range Tachyon Detection Scanner
- Planetary Assault Units:
- 12 Landing Barges
- 20 AT-ATs
- 30 AT-STs
- Fighter Bays:
- 3 TIE Fighter Squadrons
- 2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons
- 1 TIE Bomber Squadron
- Landing Bays:
- 5 Assault Gunboats
- 8 Lambda-class Shuttles
- 15 Stormtrooper Transports
Other Star Destroyers that have been named in the various games and RPG materials, but do not have specified sources: Enforcer, Eradicator, Furious, Harasser, Revenge, Stalker, and Victorious.

<B>Imperial-II class Star Destroyer </B>

a modification to the incredibly effective Imperial-I class, the Imperial-II class only had 36,755 crewers, but 300 gunners and nearly 10,000 troops. These 1,600-meter ships were equipped with 50 heavy turbolaser batteries, 50 heavy turbolaser cannons, 20 ions cannons, and 10 tractor beam projectors. (SWSB, ISB, BW)


Hope that helps some.

Grand Admiral Jason
10 March 2002, 11:15 AM
I know the weaponary difference, I just wanna know the external difference. Like you put a picture of an ISD I up a picture an ISD II and I can be able to tell the difference.

Deck
10 March 2002, 12:00 PM
I doubt that you would be able to see a differene between an ISD I and an ISD II when just looking at them. You would need high detailed pics and side views which even show Turbolaser turrets and such things. Then you might be able to find out the exat type of destroyer.

Such an image has just been released by <b>The Admiral</b> in the D6 forum.

I also think that when you fly a fighter around an ISD II, you would be able to identify the ship, as you are very close and can detect the small differences which are only known to the manufacturer and the military. For example the Rogue Squadron pilots can see the differences.

But when you take normal photos or shots from the movies, a difference between a Mk. I and MK. II will hardly be obvious. :)

blitzkreig
10 March 2002, 01:14 PM
fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror and a bumper sticker that says "keep honking, i'm reloading"

but seriously...

deck is right about no real physical difference in the movies. he is also dead on with his assumption that the only test would be to get up real close and personal with one of these things. even from a good distance the only differences would be cosmetic as they are the same length and simply modified versions of the ISD 1's (gathered from wizards of the coast's animal CR and SotG).

judging that they are the same size and shape, only more heavily armed, you would have to look at the extra weapons emplacements. of course during play you could always radio and ask...

reliant
12 March 2002, 10:15 AM
They look the same to me... Unless you were really familiar with them (ie an imperial engineer) or had fought against both more times than you could count (ie rouge squadron), I don't think you could really tell which you were looking at. The differences are just to subtle (and most are under the surface).

The Admiral
12 March 2002, 05:45 PM
No real difference?

Oh I beg to differ, indeedy I doody.

Imperial 1 destroyers are white. 2's are blue. (Well, alright, a light blue-grey, but the difference is quite distinct)

Imperial 1 destroyers have a vertical orientated tractor beam sensor. 2's carry them flat. (There is the suggestion that the array is articulated, which would render the point moot, but there's no canon evidence of that.)

Imperial 1 destroyers have cup shaped main engine nozzles, 2's have tubular ones. (with three recessed foils inside the engine)

Imperial 1 destroyers have a completely recessed bridge. 2's have a prominant bulge.

Imperial 1 destroyers have completely spherical shield domes. 2's have slightly oblate domes, featuring a series of vertical spines.

Imperial 1 destroyers have no appreciable armour of the dorsal surfaces of the superstructre, 2's have equivilant armour to the sides.

There are also some minor differences in hull detailing too, but that's really quite mild, and difficult to spot unless you're up close.

All that's physical differences. In a game, spotting the difference would be a piece of cake. ISD2's are somewhere between 1,000,000 and 100,000,000 tons heavier. (The added armour) Any simple gravometric sensor would detect that kind of difference. (The reason for the uncertainly over the value mainly stems for ssues around the nature of Star Destroyer armour. It has been cited that ISDs are clad in neutronium armour. This is, of course, impossible. A Star Destroyer plated in neutronium wiould instantly form a small black hole. This would render it's military value somewhat lower than before. It does seem unlikely that the armour would be anything as banal as simple steel, and therefore, the question of exactly how much heavier one would be depends on knowing what the armour is.

One thing I am almost certain of is that the ISD and ISD2 share the same basic complement of guns. The power of the guns might have shifted, but the number of them hasn't. Mind you, most sources, including official sources, routinely misreport either ship's weapons complement.
For the record again, ISD and ISD2 classes have;
6 main laser cannon, 2 main ion cannon, 3 axial defence turrets, 2 quad mount cannon, and 66 laser emplacements.

The Admiral
12 March 2002, 06:28 PM
Just as a minor addendum, I was going to go away and do the sums to get a rough idea of how much an ISD would weigh if it were plated in a meter of neutronium. It very rapidly became apparent that my PC doesn't like numbers that large.
One cubic centimeter of neutronium is estimated to weigh 100,000,000 metric tons.
Suffice it to say that if a ISD were coated in about 1 mm of neutronium, it would destroy the entire star system it was in. A full meter would certainly destroy the galaxy. It'd take about 50,000 years, but it would certainly be dead. if you spontaeneously created it, I'm reasonably sure that all life in the galaxy would be dead within seconds.

Chris Curtis
12 March 2002, 07:18 PM
The whole "neutronium" argument, of course, presumes that what they refer to in SW as neutronium is the same as what we refer to as neutronium. (For those unfamiliar with what it really is, I refer you to url="http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Neutronium"]this source[/url].)

I would personally len toward the explanation that whoever it was that first suggested ISDs are clad in "neutronium" armor said so without actually knowing what they were saying. Likely, they just thought that the word had a nice ring to it and sounded really tough. Of course, it's also possible that they did know what it was and simply said it without thinking through the consequences.

And as for a spontaneously created, neutronium-clad ISD ending all life in the galax within seconds... Well, that would really depend on how exactly gravity works (and particularly how it "travels"). Since as far as I'm aware we (i.e. earth scientists) don't know right now, it's hard to say what the effect might be. You are entirely correct, though, that it would seriously mess up pretty much everything...

Ash DuQuennes
12 March 2002, 09:30 PM
For RPG purposes: The ISD I kicks butt. The ISD II seriously kicks butt! :rolleyes: sorry 'bout that. couldn't help myself.

But seriously:

The ISD I mounts (game-wise) 60 5D10x5 Turbolasers; 4 5-gun batteries in the Front, Left and Right firing arcs. 60 5D10x2 Ion Cannons; 4 5-gun batteries Front, 3 5-gun batteries Left and Right, and 2 5-gun batteries Rear. 10 Tractor Beam Projectors; 6 Front, 2 Left and 2 Right.

The ISD II mounts 50 10D10x5 Heavy Turbolasers; 4 5-gun batterires Front, and 3 each 5-gun batteries Left and Right. 50 7D10x5 Turbolasers; 4 5-gun batteries Front, and 2 each 5-gun batteries Left, Right and Rear. 20 4D10x5 Heavy Ion Cannons; 2 5-gun batteries Front, 1 each 5-gun batteries Left and Right. And 10 Tractor Beam Projectors, same arrangement as the ISD I.

The ISD II has slightly increased Hull and Shield values, as well.

Using average (5.5) dice values, a frontal barrage from an ISD I will do 550 points of damage with its Turbolasers (assuming all 4 batteries hit, and not using inclusionary rules for additional hits from other guns in a battery) and an additional 220 from its Ion Cannons.

An ISD II, OTOH, will do 1,100 points of damage from it's mains (10D10x5 Hvy. TLasers), an additional 770 from it secondaries (7D10x5 TLasers), as well as another 220 from its Hvy. Ion Cannons. 8o