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DirkGreystoke
10 March 2002, 07:09 PM
POSSIBLE SPOILERS

The newest trailer "Clone War," alond with the latest Behind the Scenes video have apparently settled some debates that were on the holonet while back....mainly concerning dark side points.

1. George says the Jedi are like "marshalls in the old west....always prepared to back up their positions with deadly force." This gives more latitude to Jedi in their actions I think, meaning that a Jedi does not always need to stun his opponents as some have suggested.

2. Anakin is seen using force push against sentient, living creatures, suggesting that a dsp should not be given when using this power to attack a living creature.

On a final note, this will be the best SW movie ever.

Gulmyros
10 March 2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by DirkGreystoke
POSSIBLE SPOILERS
2. Anakin is seen using force push against sentient, living creatures, suggesting that a dsp should not be given when using this power to attack a living creature.I don't want to hijack your thread, but before it goes further, let's not forget that Anakin's SUPPOSED to fall to the dark side, right? Wonder how he gets there?

Oh, and no, I don't think Anikin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader from an addiction to Force Push... :) But I'd be hesitant to show his use as a reason Jedi wouldn't get DSPs.

As to the trailer. Loved it. I think it's great to get to watch the political twists and turns as the Empire rises up from the Old Republic. And kudos to our old friend Palpy, too. Sure, he's the biggest evil dude around, but he's a crafty one!

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
10 March 2002, 07:53 PM
I think this thread is in the wrong section of the forums? I understood this section was for the the RPG General game discusion, not the movie trailer topics :p

Not sure if you seen or not.. but in the Misc & Chaos section of the forums, there's already a thread topic totally about the new Ep2 trailer started by revstrone...

stroll on over here and let the discusions begin!
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5888

it just don't make sense to have a ep2 trailer topic in every other forum section :p

Gulmyros
10 March 2002, 08:56 PM
Yes, that's quite true. No need to have a zillion threads about the same topic.

But I think our good friend Dirk did a good thing here. That is, I think he put this thread here to ferret out how the trailer reflected questions about the way game mechanics were and are depicted in the movies. That's why he brought up the issue of DSPs for Force use, and some other ideas that other people can supply.

I think the one in C&M is for general discussion about the movie, this one is about how the trailer reflects the rules and the rules reflect the trailer...

Moridin
10 March 2002, 10:02 PM
The reason I moved it here was because this is a discussion about Dark Side Points, an RPG game mechanic, and how they relate to the new trailer.

Reverend Strone
10 March 2002, 10:05 PM
Ditto to both of Gulmyros' posts above.

1, lets talk rules implications of Ep 2 here. Good notion. We might want to post big spoiler warnings though for those who want to shield themselves from surprise giveaways in case they come up.

2, I agree Anakin may not be the best example of whether using Force Push against a sentient gives a DSP or not. Having said that, I would have a problem with automatically giving a DSP for force pushing someone.

Surely there's no difference between force pushing and whacking someone with a lightsabre? Do we give Jedi DSPs everytime they hit someone? I would think it would depend on the intent and the situation. Force Pushing an adversary out of the way to avoid having to cut him down instead would not be reason to grant a DSP in my opinion. Using the Force to knock a guy off a cliff on the otherhand when a nonlethal solution was available would however, just as killing an opponent with a lightsabre when he could have been subdued just as easily, would be equally deserving of a DSP.

I tend to be very discretionary when awarding FPs and DSPs, judging them by situation and intention rather than always applying the rules that might be laid out in the CRB.

bmenges
11 March 2002, 06:32 AM
I tend to agree that DSPs should be awarded due to intent. In the case of my groups most recent adventure, I considered two options when our group was surrounded by STs. The first, which is the one I chose, was to attempt affect mind to get rid of them. However, that failed, and, our quirky little astromech deactivated the magnetic field holding the atmosphere in the old landing bay we were in. To make a long story short, my character made a miraculous shot with his grappling hook launcher , but had his ankle grabbed by one of the flying STs. I failed an attempt at kicking him loose, almost losing my grip. So, I used force push, and he went flying off.

Now, does this deserve a DSP? Before you say "Yes, he fell into the vacuum of space and would be in danger, and you used the force to put him there!", think about this: Was this an attack, or was it self-defense. My point here is, just because you FP a sentient being, it doesn't make it wrong. If I had FPed the entire group of STs so that I could get away, it would have been a non-lethal solution to a problem, but it only would have put my whole group in danger when they got up and alerted the entire station.

One important point in the argument too is the fact that ST armor is powered and they can survive for a short time in the vacuum, and according to the GM, they were all rescued, albeit some with blaster bolts in their chests.:p

Durian Keldrona
11 March 2002, 09:50 AM
What i found interesting were the bits about the Old republic military and how the newe clone troopers would hold the republic together....

loudanddeep
11 March 2002, 12:43 PM
So if I use force push some think it is a DSP?

oK, I just shoot them all with my heavy blaster pistol.

so there.

Seriously, the question is not the tool used, but why it was used.
Some tools are given dark side points for pure game balance (force grip), but force push?

Use the tool (blaster, force push, ls, etc) for evil, get DSP.
Do not use it for evil, do not get DSP.

Now, what is evil?
That is the real debate, and is up to you and your group.

dp

Durian Keldrona
11 March 2002, 01:51 PM
Wow I just noticed the first instance of blood in the Star wars universe....

BrianDavion
11 March 2002, 02:22 PM
you mean ASIDE from when Obi-wan cut off the arm in the Cantina?

Durian Keldrona
11 March 2002, 02:33 PM
In C3PO voice "don't get technical with me you malfunctioning scrap pile." :) J/K

Master Dao Rin
11 March 2002, 10:21 PM
The biggest thing that stood out for me?

Sio Bibble's comment:

"There hasn't been a full scale war since the formation of the Republic"

8o

Whoa, thats a doozey. 25,000 years without a war involving the Republic?

I'm smiling like crazy though, since this scraps all that EU crap Tales of the Jedi stuff ... :D

Lord Diggori
12 March 2002, 01:28 AM
You know Dao Rin I thought the same thing when I heard that quote the eighth time I rewound the tape I recorded the new trailer on ( FANBOY ALERT!!! B) ).

Ofcourse Lucas doenst give a rat's @$$ about the EU since what he says goes. Yet as a GM I like the EU and use it in my campaigns. So I'm interpreting it as so: the key phrase is "full-scale".

I'm reading this as the equivalent to a world war in real life, many of the most powerful nations going at it. None of the wars against the Sith nor the Stark Hyperspace war or my own pre-Episode I Broken Rim war where "full-scale" wars. The Clone Wars, the Galactic Civil War, and the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion are examples of full-scale wars. That's just how I'm choosing to look at it so it runs smoothly with canon.

bmenges
12 March 2002, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Durian Keldrona
Wow I just noticed the first instance of blood in the Star wars universe....

What about when Obi-Wan sliced Darth Maul in half, I believe there was a moment of spray there

Master Dao Rin
12 March 2002, 11:18 PM
Well, that comment by Bibble could also give us another hint - maybe the Republic hasn't been around for as long as we have been led to believe it to be ... the previous 25,000 years ...

Maybe the time around the beginning of the Sith ala Jedi Ki-Adi-Mundi's comment was the actual formation of the GALACTIC Republic ... "over a millennia ago."

Just a thought ... :)

st-153-45
13 March 2002, 04:28 AM
using whatever lightside forcepower in self defense wont give you a dsp........ if it would then every jedi combatting yuuzhan vong should merit dsps since theyre using several "new" techniques to win a fight

the main thing here is self defense i guess , heck even yoda says it in esb!!

Jarrod Li
13 March 2002, 11:08 AM
Don't forget about Obi-wan using force push on the trade federation droids in Ep. 1. Granted the droids aren't "sentient life".......

BrianDavion
13 March 2002, 12:13 PM
problem with the idea of the republic being new is the "over a thousand generations" quote

Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
15 March 2002, 12:16 PM
The biggest thing that stood out for me?

Sio Bibble's comment:

"There hasn't been a full scale war since the formation of the Republic"



Whoa, thats a doozey. 25,000 years without a war involving the Republic?

I'm smiling like crazy though, since this scraps all that EU crap Tales of the Jedi stuff ...

The site linked to at the end of the trailer mentions a reformation of the Republic about 1000 years ago... about the time the Sith were defeated and went into hiding. So we can assume that's where the Republic they're talking about starts.

Also, the TOTJ things and such were NOT full-scale wars (ie, galaxy-wide)... they were scuflles... and those too are mentioned at holonetnews.com.

Sio's saying that there hasn't been a galaxy-wide war since the formation (reformation) of the Repuiblic.

And even then, the TOTJ things weren't full scale wars anyhow... they were centered in the Empress Teta Systems.

Master Dao Rin
15 March 2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
The site linked to at the end of the trailer mentions a reformation of the Republic about 1000 years ago... about the time the Sith were defeated and went into hiding. So we can assume that's where the Republic they're talking about starts.


Presumably, yes that does seem to be the clue - so, this now begs the question: Just how much has the Republic reformed? I'm thinking it was probably a huge, galaxy spanning change, probably around the time of Darth Bane the emergence of the Sith (ignoring comics and novels here for a moment) ...