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Dashdar
13 March 2002, 09:20 PM
OK wht do you uys think about this. One of my players wants to make a lightsaber atached to a chain, w/ a shorter handel of course. What do you guys think about this. I can see no reson why he should not be able to make such a thing. I have said that in order to be able to weild this weapon he would have to take some peanalties in other areas, like feat or something. SO what do you guys think? Yes No, Damage, I think it sounds dark.

Dashdar

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
13 March 2002, 11:21 PM
a lightsaber blade on a handle & chain..

I don't think a lightsaber is something that should be weilded like a flail or nunchucks.

what if something deflects the lightsaber blade enough for it to become out of control, perhaps sways back on the chain's length and into it's weilder or into the weilders fellow team players???

Part of using a lightsaber is that there's no counterweight at the end of the blade... which is mainly why it's a hard weapon for non force chars to use (and very dangerous to their own well being) and also why jedi's only use them and train how to use them before they enter combat with a lightsaber...

Hmmm, it certainly has risk element... but I question this: how much risk is it before it's just way over the top too ludicrusly risky ?

I've a few alternatives to suggest:

lightsaber: multi-lengthed adjustable ... offers short, regular and extended blade lengths for multi-purpose use and flexible fighting style. each length would have it's own blade color as you would be using 3 different types of crystals...

Double ended lightsaber: the same style as Darth Maul used... tricky to use and learn as its a cross between a sword & staff... can be weilded by one or two hands... Perhaps it can be 2 actual lightsabers that can be joined at opposite ends... (added twist: use the above multi-lengthed lightsaber idea)

There's a 3 segmented fighting staff that's broken into 3 seperate parts, the middle section keeping it all together by them energy binders... a weapon like that would be hard enough to control...

for a huge choice of lightsaber construction ideas and techniques and examples....Taken from the WEG books and supplemented with added d20 conversions by Moriden go here:
Net.Guide to Lightsaber Construction (http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/entry.php?s=&id=588)

give those ideas some thought as well as everyone elses suggestions (c'mon guys, lend a helping hand here) ... and present them to the player. I'd be interested to know what results you and your player come up with!

There, I hope I was able to be of help... :)

blitzkreig
14 March 2002, 01:53 AM
hrm a kusari gama-lightsaber? honestly, i think the character would lose a limb during the first practice session. he would certainly find no master to teach the use of such an odd weapon and there could be no end to the dangers involved in wielding a weapon such as this - dangers to himself and to others.

i would rule that this weapon will raise eyebrows with whomever is in charge of the jedi (be it the jedi council - rise of empire, the jedi master - rebellion era, or the new jedi council - new jedi order) as this is NOT a weapon for defense. something like this could get irresponsible and dangerous to all those around the wielder, no longer making him a defender, but an aggressor (and a dangerous one to boot).

now on the other hand, if this character is a dark sider (or hoping to get there soon) spark this puppy up in a crowded market square and give it a few whirls to get the weight right and presto! instant extremity screen. this could be useful for racking up a lot of DSP's in a short while.

i would seriously question the player's motives for the weapon. is he trying for the ninja-type character? or does he want the added reach that a weapon of this sort would provide? ask the player to outline this odd lightsaber like they do in the rule book. heavily weighted with bonuses and light on penalties might be indicative of a poorly made decision. on the other hand, if the player managed to balance the plus side and the minus side and is looking for something unique work with it.

the weapon itself would even get consideration if a player in my game brought this to me. the first question would be "how does it work?" the second ould be "why is this being created?"

if something like this did make it into my system i might look at attack negatives when in close quarters with allies, maybe severe penalties for a fumbled attack.

well, just my two cents worth...

Jastor
14 March 2002, 06:14 AM
Its not without a reason a lightsaber is called UCT :)

Dashdar
14 March 2002, 06:16 AM
UCT???

Jastor
14 March 2002, 06:22 AM
U)niversal C)utting T)ool

Dashdar
14 March 2002, 06:35 AM
ah ty.

reliant
14 March 2002, 07:41 AM
The other problem I see here is that the lightsaber would have to be locked on (or not have a deadman's switch). THat means that it would just be swinging around out of control (and on) until the player managed to wrangle it in and shut it back off. If this was my game, I'd let the player build it (it seems reasonable enough) but then make it EXTREMELY difficult to use. Obviously the penalty for the thing going wild would be a good chance of wounding (or killing) yourself of your companions.

On the flipside, I think it COULD be controlled much the same way a thrown lightsaber is controlled with the force. It would require extreme concentration, and it would probably be a very difficult skill to master. Again, failing could have very bad consequecnes to the user and his buddies.

Dashdar
14 March 2002, 08:33 AM
This guy lives in my dorm so it is very easy for me to talk w/ him abou t these things. He seems to think that if the saber was deflected he could just start swinging it the other way. I don't know about that though. The largest problem I see if it is made would be the training. This would be a new weapon that no other Knight or Master would have had experience w/. So he would be creating a new style of combat..

Jastor
14 March 2002, 09:08 AM
treat it as a new skill, thou he have to begin at ... half his dexterity? and pay the double exp to increase (a little harsch, but still, since hes training alone).. still it would be hard to controll it.. idea:

take a PVC pipe (1/2" - 1") and connect it to a chain and let him describe/show off how he would use it ^^

darth maim
14 March 2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Jastor
treat it as a new skill, thou he have to begin at ... half his dexterity? and pay the double exp to increase (a little harsch, but still, since hes training alone).. still it would be hard to controll it.. idea:

take a PVC pipe (1/2" - 1") and connect it to a chain and let him describe/show off how he would use it ^^

you also would have to assume that a blade of energy was hanging three feet (give or take) off the end.

Donovan Morningfire
14 March 2002, 12:49 PM
Having a little practical experience with a kusuri-gama, it would be nearly impossible to to use such a weapon when the blade end has no real mass. Over time maybe, but you'd better have a practice version (where the blade does only stun damage instead of lopping limbs off). It just sounds like this guys trying to get an easy combat advantage.

Now, if he's going to hold onto the blade end and use the weighted end of the chain as a reach weapon (usually how a kusuri-gama is used), that's something else, and is quite doable. Strange to be sure and probably not endorsed by the Jedi Order, but doable.

For the latter, it would probably be an Exotic Weapon Proficiency (light something-or-other), and would require Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting to get the most out of it, as it would function as a double-weapon. The saber end would do 2d6, and the chain 1d4, both with a crit range of 20. Alternatively, instead of a double weapon, the chain could be used as a reach weapon (make a melee attack on an opponent you're not adjacent too) with a range of 3 to 4m.

Of course, the above are for d20 Star Wars. For d6, make it a separate skill, blade end does 4D, chain end does Str+2, difficulty 20 for blade (used normally), 10 for chain (close combat), 15 for chain (if used at range), and 40 if he tries to toss the saber blade. Also keeping in mind that missing the base difficulty by 10 or more with the lightsaber end results in an attack roll on yourself.

Kobayashi_Maru
15 March 2002, 02:20 PM
Maybe the lightsaber handle can be built to come apart connected by a manriki chain added weight to both handle ends might adjust for the weightless blade. Then maybe the switch could be on the end of the handle so you could still control the blade's on/off.

Just imagine the beginning of Samurai 2. Now imagine the opponents as Jedi (or Sith your preference). Hell just imagine any samurai/shaolin movie and that could lead to a CRAZY assortment of "light"weapons (ex. lightchaku, lightkoen, light shuriken, light yari, a jitte-ed lightsaber). Whether they are right for your campaign or not I think I'd just stay with the traditional lightsaber.

Dark Knight
15 March 2002, 10:35 PM
ok, my idea is this i can see this working as the chain being used as a blunt object when thrown. I however can not see the twirling of a Lightsaber in such fashion as it leaves WAY too much room for error

DirkGreystoke
16 March 2002, 08:10 PM
Donovan is right. Since a lightsaber blade has no mass, he will not feel the weight of it when he uses it and it will be not only impossible to control, but also nearly impossible not to injure himself. Sounds to me like your player is trying to be orginal, which is very good...however it has been my experience that Jedi stuff is best left untampered with.

Ronin
17 March 2002, 02:16 AM
As I understand it, this is basically a lightsaber-on-a-chain....
well, the saber hilt itself would provide enough weight to keep the blade swung away from the weilder, you just gotta remember that your weapon is longer than it feels (quit sniggering at the back! ;) ).

I think it`s possible....and I wanna see Jet Lee using it! ;)

DirkGreystoke
17 March 2002, 08:31 AM
The weight of the blade would still not be enough to compensate. Weight of weapons in extrememly important, at least in real life. That is why noone ever made an actual weapon like the ones you are talking about. The reason a lightsaber is so deadly is because the blade has no mass, making it very easy to injure onesself. Every time you swung it at an opponent, the character would have to jump, duck, or some twisted combination of both just to avoid the blades on their return arc. And then how would he bring the blades to a stop before then end of the round to attack again? His only option would to be to continually swing the blades in circles, which would make anyone dizzy after a time. However, star wars is not real life. However, if you are trying to use real life as a guideline....even someone like Bruce Lee would not touch a weapon such as this. Also, it would take a true Jedi weapon master to use if even remotely effectively, but yet it would provide absolutely no tactical advantage. So why even ponder it?

reliant
18 March 2002, 05:21 AM
Maybe the whole thing would be better if the blade was shorter? Instead of a full meter long blade, if the blade was instead MUCH shorter (say 6 inches?) then it would be less dangerous. Then just to make sure that the user and his allies aren't chopped to bits, I'd make it a stun saber as well. Then maybe the whole thing would be more controllable and also less dangerous...

Sanjuro
18 March 2002, 06:08 AM
Though the lightsaber blade has no weight, the handle still does. I doubt the idea is to connect only the energy blade to the end of a chain. There must be something to create the blade. A 1kg lightsaber, that would be the weight at the end of the chain. There would be a three foot blade sticking out of that weight, but it would be there none the less would it not? B)

Sanjuro
18 March 2002, 06:10 AM
Sorry, I see I am not the first to post my last response. I apologize.

My, badd.

:rolleyes:

Dashdar
18 March 2002, 03:40 PM
Thanks for all the help guys. the way it turned out was he just wanted to get something new. I went through the pros and cons with this and he finally decided to take a lightsaber w/ muntiple jewls to produce a longer blade. This has been most helpful and thanyou again.

Dashdar

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
18 March 2002, 05:25 PM
that's what we're all here for right? :)

darth maim
18 March 2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by reliant
Maybe the whole thing would be better if the blade was shorter? Instead of a full meter long blade, if the blade was instead MUCH shorter (say 6 inches?) then it would be less dangerous. Then just to make sure that the user and his allies aren't chopped to bits, I'd make it a stun saber as well. Then maybe the whole thing would be more controllable and also less dangerous...

Not to mention not that useful.

Loche
19 March 2002, 08:01 PM
Interesting idea here. A few things to keep in mind.
1) The handel still has mass so it could still be swung rather effectivly. As a matter of fact it should be easy to make the handle weigh about the same as most chain weapons ends.
2) The blade controls could easily be put into the base so cut off control is maintained
3) The Blade doesn't need to be as long as usual when used in this manner. 10-20 cm is more than enough. A multi phaze blade with a normal lenght for normal use, and a short blade to use as a chain weapon.

Presonally I'd have it cost a Exotic Weapon Feat to master (make him learn the basics from some primitives with similar style weapons). When being used as a chain give him 4 meter reach, but disallow the ability to deflect blasters with it. You might also want to lower the damage in this for to 2d6 if you have it be short bladed.

Hope this gives you a few more ideas!

TIE53
21 March 2002, 10:00 AM
Hello,
I don't think his character should be able to have a lightsaber on a chain, because Jedi need to learn how to control a lightsaber so they can gain proficiency with the weapon, and use it from their heart. Comparing a normal lightsaber to one on a chain would be like comparing a bicycle with out training wheels to a tricycle.

Kobayashi_Maru
22 March 2002, 02:08 PM
Even if you think you have "practicle" kusari-gama experience, take your toy lightsaber add batteries, tie it off with rope and go to town.

Not very effective is it!!!!!!!

If you dont' mind squeezing reality for playability and fun go for it, but if you do mind show him said experiment. Usually to alter something as cool as a lightsaber means the end result is not as cool!!!!!!!

DirkGreystoke
22 March 2002, 07:28 PM
VERy well said, Kobayashi.

Mathis Kharr
24 March 2002, 05:51 PM
I would sugest an extra exotic weapon feat sense it's not an ordinary lightsaber. But i pretty much allow in my campaign anythiong they desire to create within reason of course