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Mathis Kharr
22 March 2002, 09:48 PM
I have this one guy in my campaign whos a fanatic about Jedi.
He insist that he's playing the perfect jedi even when he does things that are completly unjedi like. He is obsesive to a fault, he is materialistic, he allways wants to be in charge. berates Jedi masters.. yes Jedi masters as if he was one himself. He takes foolish risks that endager the lives of everyone he works with and his osesions get people hurt.

The player also has metagamed, a lot. I will say something to a character in game and he will try and use it in game as if he knew about it. He uses his own characters to buy his own characters things even when they don't know each other. he complains he wants the cannon type unisvers but the first thing he does out the gate is alter it by getting luke involved in everything and trying to solve his problems for him.
He also constantly rules lawyers and argues everything from Novels and why his character can't do what they do in novels to general stuff. making players mad

This player also insist that the actions described by his character above , which are numerous do not warrant darkside pts of any kind. This player refuses to change and all he plays are the same type of Jedi. The think and even act alike. and if they don't act alike they do nothing constructive.

Now I ask based on the above what would be your oppinion of this characters darkside pts if any, and what would you do with this player to correwct this game imbalance he brings?

Also please list your bad player or character experiences


Korath the mighty, he's allways tighty. Roams thrrough the country side, doesn't need a place to hide. With Hacker as his side kick fighting with it's metal stick. Walking about and singing songs.. Fighting evil all day long.. He's Korath.. he's Korath the mighty!!!

Bombaatu
22 March 2002, 10:54 PM
Frankly, this type of player is usually far more trouble than they are worth. If you have discussed the issue with him and he refuses to change, and if his actions are affecting either your or your other player's enjoyment of the game, he should be asked to leave.

darth maim
22 March 2002, 11:25 PM
Screw him... right in the a** ... he's out. Period. He's hijacking the game and he's useless. Cut him loose. Your players will thank you for it and you'll be a much happier GM. Right now I'm playing with only one PC for this very reason. I had 2 players that were total a-holes. They were both my cousins and are under 16... they sucked and now they stay home.

Talonne Hauk
22 March 2002, 11:57 PM
I had problems in this area, and I eventually learned that as a GM, "Because I say so" is a perfectly good response that most players will accept for the betterment of game harmony. It's generally the last trick in the bag to use, so if this player won't accept it, it's time for you to politely tell him that he shouldn't play in your group anymore. And then stick to your guns, and don't allow him back. It's tough to be a firm GM about rules, but if players didn't require firm leadership, they could play the game by themselves. Good luck.

Krad-edis
23 March 2002, 12:16 AM
Boy, Darth Maim, you said it!

I don't mean to sound as if I am picking on young people (I know some very mature young people, but not many), but how old is this guy you are talking about? He sounds like your typical fifth grader. I'd bounce him out of my game if all he does is argue and cause discontent with the story, the players and the whole deal. Don't bother with dark side points, just give him character death in a loud, grotesque and stupid manner and be done with it. Then ask him not to come back.

The big violation here is not an inquisitive player, but a player who argues with the GM. Players can ask questions and should be free to do so most anytime (unless it really slows down play), and should be encouraged to ask questions after sessions. Challenging and arguing with the story writer and rule maker usually ends with character death and banishment for my games.

IF you want to be nice extra nice, which you seem to have been so far, give him the final warning. Let him know that he has one foot out the door. This way when he opens his rule lawyer manual to challenge you again, you don't feel so bad about putting a bannana peel under the other foot. :D

Sithspawn
23 March 2002, 02:03 AM
GM is the RPG god.
GM decision is final.

When running NPC's remember they are the bad guys, and they cheat.
This Jedi isn't the best in the galaxy. Put him up against four equal opponents.
DSP are not up for discussion, GM decison is final. Not all Dark Side actions are obvious. Throw in a cursed Sith Sword. Make it do munchkin damage so the guy will want to use it, then WHAM! Instant 6 DSP's!!!

Start a new campaign in say the Rebel Era and say no to force users, or at least there'll be no master around so his new PC will progress much slower.

Speak to the other players and ask them if they feel the same as yourself. I pointed out to my group how we all change how we play depending if we're GM or Player. GMs want weaker PCs while Players want stronger PCs.

But if you have talked to the guy and he won't change you do have to seriously think about an ultimatum. Change or out?!

Soontide
23 March 2002, 07:50 AM
I have had players like this from time to time in my campaigns and find that usually they have to be let go for the good of the group. I have a tried and true method of weeding out those who are just truely bad players and those who can change and it goes something like this:

Get together with your other players and take a poll. Find out if they like the way the player games or if it really bothers them. Then ask them if they think the player is worth saving. If they agree that the player is salvagable, then operation mirror commences.

You announce one game night that you will be running a side game tonight and everyone can play their favorite characters. Chances are, offending player will whip out his jedi. This done, the other characters in the game will all be jedi just like the offending characters. Run the game just like you normally would, but instruct the other players to play their characters like the offending player does. Award force points for things that character has done in the past, refusing to give dark side points when warrented. Eventually, if the player is a true rules lawyer, he will start to object to the way jedi are being played. At this point, let him know that this is how his character looks to others as he/she normally plays them. This will cause the player to do one of two things. leave on their own or shape up.


Good luck with the game.

madpoet
23 March 2002, 08:08 AM
I know the type of player you're talking about. I've had more than one in the past. As it has been pointed out earlier, as GM, you are the final arbitor of what is or isn't possible within the game. If you want to penalize him, just give him the DSPs and take them away if and when he starts to straighten his act.

Or, you can start cutting back on his XPs whenever he disrupts gameplay.

If nothing else seems to work, ask him to leave the game. It can seem harsh, especially if he's a good friend, but you have to take the enjoyment of your other players in mind.

Best of luck to you.

BrianDavion
23 March 2002, 08:12 AM
I'd toss him. toss him now before a GOOD player of yours gets fed up and quits

dgswensen
23 March 2002, 08:41 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record with everyone else, but I would suggest sitting him down, discussing the situation with him calmly and rationally, and basically spelling it out for him as nice as you can: shape up or ship out. If it becomes a huge argument, or he is unwilling to compromise, then yeah -- give him his walking papers.

Personally, I wouldn't really recommend schemeing in-game penalties. In my experience, that never really solves anything. I usually find players act like this out of a need for attention or to compensate for feelings of inadequacy, and sabotaging his behavior in-game will only make that situation worse.

Jastor
23 March 2002, 08:50 AM
somce tjos person is more eager to around than to play i would say: either you follow what i say, or youre out that door (or window if it would be some stairs up)

Kobayashi_Maru
23 March 2002, 12:59 PM
I you, as the GM, and the other players feel he is more destructive than constructive, ask him with the others not to play agian. I've had to do it and it usually isn't pretty.

Cheaters.
I can't stand cheaters. I actually had to re-calculate a whole PC because he had spent more xp than he could of ever had. Plus I keep a complete record of all the games and exp each of the players earn. He was like 14 rates over what he should have been. So I had to do that twice and then he started blantly cheating. Lying about rolls, changing rolls, never rolling and saying he made check in question. This is when I was a meaner GM. The whole party was upset so they conspired to kill his character,and every character he generated at the start of the game. He got the hint.

dgswensen
23 March 2002, 01:12 PM
The whole party was upset so they conspired to kill his character,and every character he generated at the start of the game. He got the hint. lol... That's very brutal... but funny :D It reminds me of my old D&D tournament days when the group I was in conspired to kill off a very similar player who was cheating, being annoying and acting in an inappropriate fashion. Boy, how he squealed when his character died. (We shoved him into a pit with a carrion crawler, for the record :))

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about stuff like that anymore, though.

Jedi Master Antilles
23 March 2002, 01:19 PM
These type of people are annoying and disruptive to the game,you as the GM should tell him flat out " I am the GM and what i say goes! ,don't like it leave" it is your game and your running it,hence like stated before
GM is God
GM makes the rules!

if the individual still hasn't got it in his head and continues his actions then talk to him and explain it to him,if he still hasn't gotten it through his head then he is a sucky RPer and will never get it in his head and you need to just give him Das' Boot in the a** out the door,never to return!

Mathis Kharr
23 March 2002, 01:21 PM
Thanx all these are great sugestions. The guy by the way in question is 30 years of age. I am also hoping he has seen these forums considering he frequents them alot. maybe after reading all this he will finally believe me and see that based on his actions he hasn't been very fun to game with. Maybe now he will get a clue.






Korath. A man on a mission.. his three year mission to boldy go where no Jedi has gone before. Into the bedroom of three wookies and a jawwa named Munts (Joke)

Ghost In The Holocron
23 March 2002, 06:04 PM
from dgswensen:

...I would suggest sitting him down, discussing the situation with him calmly and rationally, and basically spelling it out for him as nice as you can: shape up or ship out. If it becomes a huge argument, or he is unwilling to compromise, then yeah -- give him his walking papers.

...I wouldn't really recommend schemeing in-game penalties. In my experience, that never really solves anything. I usually find players act like this out of a need for attention or to compensate for feelings of inadequacy, and sabotaging his behavior in-game will only make that situation worse.

I have to go with dgswensen's suggestion on this one. In-game scheming might just add to everyone's difficulties. Talk to the him mano-a-mano or with the rest of the group. Nice and easy does it -- try not to give in to your frustration, your anger... anger leads to hate... and yada yada. If it really absolutely can't be solved that way -- by all means kick him out!

Good luck with your 30+ year old curmudgeon!

Dark Knight
23 March 2002, 09:38 PM
I look at it like like this if you have an abundance of pc i say dump him. If you have my dilemma, which is lack of pc's i say kill the jedi character and any other character he comes up with that gets disruptive....eventually he should get the point.

darth maim
23 March 2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Dark Knight
I look at it like like this if you have an abundance of pc i say dump him. If you have my dilemma, which is lack of pc's i say kill the jedi character and any other character he comes up with that gets disruptive....eventually he should get the point.

I say even if you have a shortage of players kick him out (assuming he really can't cool it) before any of your precious few decent players get fed up and quit.

dgswensen
24 March 2002, 01:14 AM
Man, speaking as a gamer who's been doing this for quite a long time -- no one has any excuse to be acting that way at that age. A teenager, or someone just out of high school, I can understand. Somebody who's 30 and still acting like that much of a twink is suffering from a serious case of arrested development.

Ash DuQuennes
25 March 2002, 03:04 PM
Bombaatu nailed it on the first reply, and has pretty much been echoed unanimously in every reply since. I'll toss in my two cents, as well:

Players should have good ideas and concepts about their characters, but must always remember that they are playing as a group. If one player brings strife to the group of players, then they are detracting from everyone else's enjoyment at the expense of others. This will not do. He must amend before you lose the good players as they become fed up with his juvenile behavior.

Always remember: you are the GM of your SW Universe. Your word is law. It should be reasoned, considered words, and open to the input of thoughful players. But once your decision is made (and you will have to make it!) that's the end of the discussion.

I've had two situations similar to what you describe, but neither were as near as bad. First, we had was a new gamer (new to RPG) who bogged us down quite a bit with questions. Not only about how to play the game mechanically, but he was interested in the logic behind the game design, and wanted to discuss endlessly during game session why a heavy blaster pistol and a rifle could both have the same 5D damage, etc.

Mostly, it was unbounded curiosity on his part, and we just had to train him to put his curiosity about game mechanics on hold during game play, and discuss his questions in between game sessions.

Secondly, we had many of our own house rules in another game. We printed up a "compendium" of our house rules (mostly enhancements of existing rules, rather than changes), but he couldn't be bothered to read and follow the compendium, and instead just wanted to play straight rules from the book. We just told him: learn our house rules, or go play somewhere else. He decided to read and learn the compendium.

Master_thorin
25 March 2002, 03:50 PM
What is your problem with teenagers I have yet to see a Teen player who aproblem has been had with...... Well one but I myself am a teen and have no problem with others in my age group.:mad:

BrianDavion
25 March 2002, 06:32 PM
14 is the typical "new gamer gae" still a 30 year old like that? I'd have to say the man is hopeless

Master_thorin
26 March 2002, 04:18 AM
I started Gaming at 10 years old.:D

darth maim
26 March 2002, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Master_thorin
I started Gaming at 10 years old.:D

Gotcha beat... my dad got me to play games he ran on D&D (with miniatures to make it easier for me) at age 4



I'm oldschool

:D

BrianDavion
26 March 2002, 04:02 PM
started gaming late at 16 but was intrduced to the universes I game in (star wars and battletech) at 6:)

Mathis Kharr
26 March 2002, 04:06 PM
Thanx for all the ideas. I will have to implement them and see what happens.

dgswensen
27 March 2002, 06:26 AM
Dungeons & Dragons blue book edition, 1979! Represent!!! :)

(Damn, I'm old...)

Korwin Blade
27 March 2002, 09:41 AM
I was in D&D campaign where on of the players was always useing out of game stuff in game, like what other characters classes where and so on. I was new to the group and in game I was asked if my character would take him out if the need arised. I being the new guy and loving the idea said sure, but for a price, I was a bit of a shady character to say the least. I never had to follow through though be- cause in the next gaming session he took himself out by flying into a blade barrier. Talk about a great slice and dice. I would get the other players to take him out dsp's aside that would be the best way to get him out of the game or get him to change his ways if you want him at all. But that''s just my 1/2 cents of non-sense. :D

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
27 March 2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Kobayashi_Maru

Cheaters.
I can't stand cheaters.

I hate cheaters!! AAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I once had a player who, during the adventure, would casually mark up his stats, so that after a few adventures I looked at the character sheet, and saw he had attributes above the species maximum, and that most of his skills had started to get astronomically high. It was obvious he was cheating, so my brother just took his sheet and burned it. From then on, I would have a copy of his charater sheet, and refer to that to find out the character's stats.

Superdog
29 March 2002, 02:55 PM
Ha! I had interesting simliar situation once, and an extremely amusing solution, maybe this little story will help you. There once was a powergamer in our Marvel Super-heroes game. Oh, he was a powergamer/cheater to the extreme. However having only 4 people in our group, kicking him out probably wouldn't have been the best answer. Anyway, one day he decided to host an adventure, his lazy brother, too lazy to make his own charector, decided to play as the new GM's super, cheating, jacked up stats, unstoppable, god-like charector. By the time the adventure was over the GM was so pissed at his own charector and his brother for playing like he played, he had his own charector killed. We all had a good laugh, and the problem was basically solved. AKA: The munchkin gave up his ways after being forced to deal with what he did from the other perpective. Hope that helps, or at least brought a smile to your face.

Mathis Kharr
29 March 2002, 07:49 PM
Right now said player is Gming (due to fact i wanna give him his own medicine) it's working so far.

He placed me in a situation where his super jacked up pc was teaching us young rookies on lightsaber combat. well to say the least this guy is hardwired.

well anyways I was being a smart ass to start trouble and got singled out, exactly like i intended. well hhe wanted to punish me by humiliating me in lightsaber coimbat

I boasted twice that it was unfair, he asked " ohh you mean that I will beat you?" I said " No that i am better and will win"

well we dueled with practice sabers and guess what happened. Yup you guessed it my 6th level jedi guardian beat his 17th level (Jedi8/Jweapon Master2/Scout7) but twice no contest. oh sure he he me twice but thats it. The first time I got him is when he hit me twice. he seeing it as luck egged me on to try again. reluctantly i did and beat him again in like two hits granted they were prolly in the scheme of things luck shots. but his dice rolling sucked so bad there was no way if it was a real battle he could survive. This guy chocks like this all the time.

Made for a pretty satifying punishment to him on my behalf.=P