View Full Version : Thrawn YES, NJO NO

2 April 2002, 08:39 PM
I saw the first Star Wars movie in 77' when I was 3 years old. I thought George Lucas was a god and could do no wrong.
After ROTJ in 83', Star Wars took a LONG hiatus and not much was available.....I remember the Dark Horse Dark Empire comics came out when I was in high school, and I read them all eagerly....I didn't judge them too harshly on their content because it was SOMETHING Star Wars available after years of nothing worthwhile.
The Thrawn books came out shortly after that, and I liked the well enough, even though I thought there were some parts that were just too stupid and cheesy to stomach - there were also some very cool ideas that kind of tipped it over to the 'cool' side.
I think the 'downward spiral' started with Xizor......The 'goofy as hell' meter showed a 10+.....
I thought I would give NJO a try when it came out and I picked up Vector Prime and read through the first part, skimmed through the rest. I think it took things WAY TOO FAR.
This is my humble opinion only, but I think that NJO just taints all of Star Wars stuff that has been done. I can't do it.

<Rant Off>

2 April 2002, 08:54 PM
I don't think you're approaching the NJO with an open mind. The stories are exciting and have an edge to them that other Star Wars books lacked.

Once Chewie died, I realized that no one was safe anymore. That's what makes the NJO so gritty. Of course, as with anything, you're going to get some cheesy subplots, smarmy dialogue, etc., but if you take the time to move beyond that you get a great story.

I've been into Star Wars just as long as you, and it means a lot to me. If I thought that the NJO had no redeeming value, I'd tell you up front. Give it a chance. Hell, check the books out of your local library if you don't want to spend the money. I just think you're selling yourself short if you've decided that a series, which now spans 10 NJO books, is worthless based on skimming over the first book.

Just my opinion. One Star Wars devotee to another.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
2 April 2002, 09:00 PM
As a ton of thread have been started about this issue I can sum all of them up for you in one sentence: New Jedi Order - some SW Fans love it and some SW Fans hate it. There has been very little middle ground.

I think that people wouldn't be "up in arms" about the NJO as they are if the series wasn't as long as it is going to be.

Have you looked at the Hand of Thrawn Duology? It's set just before the NJO.

On a side note most of the threads that I mentioned above have been closed by the admin due to members saying certain things. So everyone stay cool this time.

And I'm pretty sure that RotJ came out in '83 not '86.

2 April 2002, 09:04 PM
You're right, Frobi, ROTJ did come out in '83.

2 April 2002, 10:19 PM
Post edited to reflect correction.

2 April 2002, 10:23 PM
Multiple threads may have been started on this very topic, but that is why this is the Rants section of the forums. Just my little two-cent rant.
Thanks for the summation. I can see how it would be an 'all or nothing' feeling without much room for middle ground.
I just can't stomach the Yuzon whatever....it took SW somewhere I hoped it would never go. I don't think reading MORE of the series will ever change that for me.
As long as you guys like it, great. Unfortunately for me, that's going to be what all future SW expanded universe stuff bases their timelines/history on.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
2 April 2002, 11:32 PM
Since you're such a Thrawn fan what are your thoughts on the Duology?

Darth Bile
3 April 2002, 07:32 AM
well, i've also been a huge fan since sw came out in 77, but i could care less bout the njo, books aren't all that bad, and chewie was going to die soon anyways, considering he was over200 or 300 years old, and traveling with han, that doesn't leave much chance for living to a ripe old age, but when i run the game, i just won't put in the yuzhon vong, because i got my own villians i plan on putting in and all the one major villian has to do is use the force power create storm and he will just wipe out any yuzhoon vong ship there is. so, the books got a good plot, but they just aren't my cup of tea, if ya know what i mean.

3 April 2002, 09:21 AM
I can't comment on them Frobi-
I've only read the Heir to the Empire books.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
3 April 2002, 11:42 AM
Well since you don't want to read anymore of the NJO and you did like the Thrawn Trilogy I just thought that you might like the Hand of Thrawn Duology. It's wriiten by Zahn, it's definently up anyone who liked the Thrawn Trilogy's alley.

3 April 2002, 11:49 AM
NJO isn't bad...but I think it's sort of silly.. the one great thing about star wars before hands WAS the lack of "mysterious alien invaders from beyond"

darth maim
3 April 2002, 12:05 PM
The way I see it is this...

simply put the vong are there to be a balanced foe for the Jedi who could cut through normal enemies like butter. The writers would probably love to write a good dark side vs lightside story... unfortunately lucas has said they are not to use darksiders... period.

This kind of puts a kink in things. They can either not write anything, write stories with no possible outcome than the jedi wins again, rehash the movies time and again, or come up with something new and interesting. I like the NJO myself.

3 April 2002, 12:41 PM

I wasn't aware of this ban on darksiders from Lucas. I wonder why ???
Is it because the Emperor and Vader were supposed to be the last of the darkside users, or do you think he is trying to 'keep the slate clean' in case a future project with Star Wars ever takes shape ?

3 April 2002, 12:53 PM
But there were darksiders in the NJO series. And weren't some in the Jedi kids books too? Something about a dark jedi training center or something? I dunno, I didn't read any of the jedi kids books...

As for NJO, the jury is still out on that one. I did like all the thrawn books, and I think that NJO is growing on me. I am getting kind of tired of the Solo kids though. Anakin was the only one I really liked and now he's dead. Jacen is missing (I presume we'll find out more about him in the next book), and Jaina dabbled in the darkside. Enough already. The whole damned galaxy is getting eaten up by the Vong and our primary concern is the Solo kids? I think not. Now bring in the Chiss and Imperial Remnant forces and I'll be happy... Actually, NJO isn't that bad... Since I read most of the other SW books, I was itching for something else to read anyway. At first the Vong just irriitated me because they were too powerful and flat, but now they have more depth and the NR has found ways to fight them. By the way, the new republic just annoyed me at the start of NJO anyway. It's better now that it is the rebellion again...:D

darth maim
3 April 2002, 01:10 PM
The rule was basically no using darksiders in the NJO. This is why during this entire galaxy spanning crisis the students Luke had in the beginning of his academy days (the ones from the kids books that started the shadow academy) haven't fought the Vong with the NR... good guys, bad guys... really doesn't matter if the galaxy is gone. Now, the reason isn't because they just don't care it's because Lucas said "No darksiders"

The reason for this is probably only known to him though it may have something to do with the entire Anakin/Vader is the prophesied bringer of balance to the force and with him died the overpowered darkside...

8 April 2002, 06:59 AM
I loved the Thrawn duology. It was awesome to get a glimpse at his people but I would love to see more. A book focusing on Jagged Fel might be cool with lotsa Chiss info...

I'm still not sure about NJO. I recently had a guy dump a bunch of spoilers on me (including Anakin's death...which really ticks me off...he's the only Solo kid who could keep my attention; and he does have the Name :-) Overall the complete lack of respect for Star Wars Universe is a little disconcerting - "I know...lets destroy Ithor. No that's not enough...lets destroy Duro too! Hey, why not burn down Coruscant! Woo-hoo!"

I do hope the YV get more interesting. Right now its hard to see them as anything but some twisted Voodoo cult. It will be interesting to see how Luke and Mara's son turns out...

8 April 2002, 11:29 AM
Actually Darth Maim, Lucas said that they couldn't use "Sith" as the badguys, which is what they wanted to do in the first place, because RotJ is supposed to be the final end to the Sith threat forever.

darth maim
8 April 2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Tramp
Actually Darth Maim, Lucas said that they couldn't use "Sith" as the badguys, which is what they wanted to do in the first place, because RotJ is supposed to be the final end to the Sith threat forever.

That's actually what I meant... when the sith are written about they are referred to as "having fallen to the darkside" and so far in the movies EVERY darkside force user has been referred to as sith.

9 April 2002, 08:06 AM
That may be true. However beyond the movies, not all Dark Side users are Sith. That's only one of many ways along the path of the Dark Side. If you've read Star by Star you'll notice two Dark Siders in it: a Nightsister, and a Dark Jedi. Neither of them are Sith.

9 April 2002, 04:35 PM
I agree with scourgious. We need a book with more Chiss. SPOILERS :
Now that Jaina's got the hot's for Jag we might se more Chiss.

10 April 2002, 05:02 AM
Now that Jaina's got the hot's for Jag we might se more Chiss.

Yeah, how cool is that? I was hoping she'd go for Jag rather than Kyp and I was glad to see she did. Jag is just cool...