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BRodgers
15 April 2002, 04:46 PM
It appears all of the posts regarding SWRPG artists banding together into their own organization was lost in the change over (from the previous "Looking for character artists" thread). So, I thought I would go ahead and start a new thread on this topic.

So.....anyone want to start off with thoughts on how the organization should be set up and such?

And I'm still all for secret handshakes..WOOOOO!:D

Reverend Strone
15 April 2002, 10:12 PM
My pic for a system would be one that has a core group of regularly contributing artists, kind of like staff-artists. These guys would be hand-picked by the Webmasters for their high quality work and ability to deliver large amounts fairly regularly. Their work would kick the gallery off to a start, and at least at first, probably make up the bulk of the work exhibited and establish the style and quality benchmark. Color and B/W would be best I reckon.

Then you open it up for open submissioins. That way casual artists who can't commit to a regular submission regime can still get their work displayed, but without the pressure of having to support the the gallery content all the time. Their work would be vetted, probably by appointed Webmasters, to ensure it is in keeping with the high quality level that the gallery would pride itself on, and assuming it makes the grade, be posted alongside all the rest.

In terms of organizing the gallery, my thoughts would be to group artwork by type- character portraits over here, full-length character drawings over there, custom ships over there, weapons and equipment over here etc, perhaps even further sub-grouping them if the quantity demands it, ie; aliens, humans etc, or even by class (though a d6 and d20 friendly method would be best).

Ideally, you would also have links from particular artwork to any relevant stats that might exist on the Network, or a suggestion as to where such material might be found if not here. Obviously all artwork would be creditted to the contributing artist, with further references to source material if it is appropriate and warranted.

Would we categorize art by artist? Not sure. I guess it depends on whether they develop a following. Perhaps a search engine might be available to pull up all art by particular artists?

A regular thread could run with artwork requests or suggestions, so that the content of subject matter being contributed remains in keeping with demands of the users. There could likewise be a forum for feedback on art.

I can see those poor, long-suffering, much over-worked Webmasters shaking their heads in dismay at these suggestions. This may well be too much to ask for, and too much of a burden on the system (and them), but we can hope and dream can't we guys?

Ghost In The Holocron
15 April 2002, 10:21 PM
Alun, overheared in another thread:

...he must have hit his head, but to our advantage.

Ghost's apartment, last month: Ker-bonk!... Whazzajusshappened?... Oooo, my tender aching head... Must send pics to SWRPGNetwork now... ;) Seriously, though, this place rocks so I'm glad to be of help.

As for the HoloNet Galleries idea:

I think it's worth a shot if Armage, Moridin, and others can swing it. So, I stand with the rest of my brother clones (dgswensen, darth maim, revstrone) on the matter. I know for a fact that the Rev's got something under his sleeve, and I've seen Bombaatu's work as well.

As for myself, top priority for me at this point is the stuff that's already in the SWRPGNetwork stats database -- which leaves little room for other things -- but I will help out when I can. Although, It will definitely be much easier for me to send in sketches for stats already "officially" part of SWRPGNetwork.

The Galleries, should it fly, might also be an area where questions like "How do T'landa Til officially look like?" can be be discussed -- the Rev has also brought this up elsewhere.

Late Edit -- Just read revstrone's post. Great ideas! I'm all for it!

darth maim
16 April 2002, 12:13 AM
Well I'm all for it... I've been doing art for years and have a fairly distinct style (as I'm sure we all do) I am at the present very bogged down finishing MANY websites and various other projects for school so if it's cool I think we should also include some CG artwork... (Basically until I free up some time I'll be locked into my computer and would welcome the occassional "art break" and it'd be much easier to just switch programs or files and go to work than break out the art supplies).

So what do you think? I can render full 3D quickly so quantity shouldn't be a problem at all and I am also very profficient in Illustrator and photoshop.

I can still submit some pen and ink stuff here and there though (and most likely will)...

darth maim
16 April 2002, 12:38 AM
here are a couple of figures I made recently... mind you they're comic images but you can at least see my work.

darth maim
16 April 2002, 12:40 AM
probably should have made a zip file... oh well

darth maim
16 April 2002, 12:42 AM
ok ok last one unless someone requests more...

Strikerkc
16 April 2002, 04:20 AM
YES! YES! YES! GREAT IDEA! revstrone's idea sounds like the perfect format for the artists guild.

now that the adrenilen has worn off, :D

There are LOTS of artist on the holonet, and i think we ow it to them, and every one that wants they're art, to get it out there for down load.

If this does get roleing (which i would LOVE to help with) i would like it if i could be one of the artists, i've done some pics of people and i'm fairly decent on ships and weapons/equipment, but i still need a LOT of work to become a top notch artist. :D

BRodgers
16 April 2002, 05:01 AM
I agree quality should be important. Now the question arises as to who will be the ones responsible for judging who gets in and who doesn't? I think to be considered for the Guild one should have to at least submit several pieces of work.

Criteria shouldnt be so strict as to omit those who, while they may still have some learning to do, cant get in. On the other hand, someone who specializes in stick figures perhaps needs to find another venue for their work. I think it will be important to keep an open mind about the artwork, and to make sure that we promote individuality and exploration.

I think, and this is a minor consideration at best, there should also be artist bios. Nothing elaborate mind you, but something that kind of showcases the regular contributing artists and perhaps gives a link to their own gallery and homepage. I only say this because generally, on most sites that artist do work for, we are only identified by our style and a byline. This way, we can give credit where it is due to the hard working artists of the community.

Another minor consideration. I wouldnt be opposed to see possibly some tutorials at some point on the site. More than anything this would be a great place to share ideas and techniques with each other and any other aspiring artists out there. Just another way we can kind of give back to the community as it were.

I'm excited to be a part of this as well. Gonna be fun to see where it goes.

Anyway, those are my suggestions.

Oh, and the secret handshake.:D

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
16 April 2002, 06:40 AM
Way cool darth maim!

Ya know , it's practically imposible to find any 3d model / meshes of sw non-humans out on the web... or at least not without paying major $$$ ...

The awesome thing about 3d models & meshes is that once ya have one, ya can re-pose it and render it to an image ... It will be nice seeing a healthy variety of traditional & cg on this site :)

Reverend Strone
16 April 2002, 11:37 AM
Darth Maim I am very imressed (as one who is totally bound to the pen and paper and terrified of computers). That's great work.

I whole-heartedly agree that some 3D material would make a grand addition to any gallery, and the material you're generating is pretty good IMHO. I also really like the idea of tutorials and bios- all credit to BRodgers .

I guess it will all depend on how practical all this is for the guys who'd have to set it up. doesn't hurt to aim high though right?

Strikerkc
16 April 2002, 12:09 PM
I would be willing to do all i can to get this thing off the ground.

I also know a very good tutorial for drawing primarily anime, but it can be used for all other forms

http://www.polykarbon.com

BRodgers
16 April 2002, 01:21 PM
I dont think it hurts at all to aim high Revstrone , I mean, as far as I know we will be the first of our kind for the SWRPG, heck, maybe the first for any gaming system, who knows? But if we are gonna do it we should give it our best shot, I too will do whatever needs be done to get it off the ground...I think it is a long time in coming.

BTW Strikerkc I've visited the Polykarbon site before and you are right, he does have some very cool tutorials on there. That is exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about....how we use various programs to color or alter our stuff, the CGI work (I have some of that on my site as well but I'm more inclined to tweak it in PS-see my BountyHeads feature in our Frgaments section)...the whole nine yards. I see us as not only being a great place for GM's and Webmasters to come for images but a great place for like minded artists to come as well to maybe get inspiration or help.

Chris Curtis
16 April 2002, 02:36 PM
I've got to say, guys, what you're talking about sounds very interesting. However, it also sounds like something that would probably work best as an entire site as opposed to being part of another one.

If I didn't already run 4 other sites (3 of them SWRPG! What, am I nuts?!?!) I might offer to help you guys out with it. As it is, though, I really doubt I could devote the time and effort that would be necessary for it. I will, however, offer to lend some help to whoever might volunteer for the job of creating a site (wherever and whoever that might be).

BRodgers
16 April 2002, 02:43 PM
I think Chris makes a good point guys...while I would love to have a seperate forum here on the holonet I think what we are planning on undertaking is extensive enough and would have enough material to stand as a site of its own. I mean, we already have a core group of artists, I'm sure more would like to join up and get involved and we have enough ideas so that the site would offer quite a bit to the community.

For any of you who are "poll oriented" it might be interesting to write upa poll asking those in the SWRPG community what they would find most useful/important in a site like this....that way we could get a good guage of what to focus on.

*B signs off with some secret handshake-jive* :D

Strikerkc
16 April 2002, 04:15 PM
Well, how does one go about getting a good website up? I mean, i can make websites, but they are fairly rudamentary and bare bones, if some one could say... get graphics good backgrounds to me or somthin like that, i could probably wing it from there and figure out how to get a search system up and running. I mean there is a tutorial for every thing on the web. :D

darth maim
16 April 2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Chris Curtis
I've got to say, guys, what you're talking about sounds very interesting. However, it also sounds like something that would probably work best as an entire site as opposed to being part of another one.

I agree that this COULD work as a stand alone site unfortunately we don't have a dedicated server (to my knowledge) and a site like this blows on geocities or some such.... Besides an art based site doesn't survive without either CONSTANT updates or tutorials and such... As to the fact that many artists will most likely want to help out -- this is true but the quality may be substandard.

Anyway, I'll gladly help out with layout and such as all I do all day lately is watch my son and make websites.

Reverend Strone
16 April 2002, 06:06 PM
My preference would be to see something like this as a part of the SWRPG Network, with all the back-up material that this website offers linked. Then the art is firmly rooted in its correct context.

Of course, I'm the first to admit that may well be a pipe dream.

dgswensen
16 April 2002, 06:20 PM
Well, assuming the idea of an independent Artist's Guild site became something to seriously discuss, I would be willing to help.

I have a lot of experience with PHP / MySQL database programming -- in fact, my personal Star Wars site runs almost wholly from a database (www.dimfuture.net/starwars/). Putting together a searchable database with file uploads, galleries, and the like would take a little time, but wouldn't be overly difficult.

We could even purchase a copy of VBulletin, the software Holonet uses for its community ($166 is the current cost for a site license, I believe).

The problem of hosting does rear its ugly head, though. I am fortunate to have my site hosted by my workplace, and they're cool with me doing so.

I would offer to host this new site, too -- and in the short term, it would probably work out fine -- but I fear a site like this would get very popular, and the bandwidth costs would rapidly cause the powers that be to turn disapprovingly my way. At that point, an alternative solution would have to be found.

Then comes the issue of whether or not a domain name would be appropriate, and if so, who would pick it, who would pay for it and maintain it... the whole thing gets rather dodgy very fast.

I think these are ideas that could work, but they would require quite a bit of time and effort -- and some money to boot. I guess the question is whether we would rather, as a whole, settle for a more "dumbed-down" and bare-bones artist's guild that Holonet can accomodate -- if indeed they can do so at all.

Thoughts?

BRodgers
16 April 2002, 07:47 PM
Well, for my site I was able to get a domain name, hosting service and all that for a start up of 15 bucks and about 11 bucks every month after.Granted, its through yahoo/geocities, but I've never had any trouble. I think this site/guild will live or die depending on exactly how much work people want to put in to it. If we just go with a forum on the holonet, then really it wont be much different than what we are doing now. If we want any real legitimacy I think having an independent site is the only way to go.

As far as the quality being substandard, that is only going to happen if there isnt some sort of quality assurance in place. It's true that if we let everyone submit whatever they want then some of the work may not be up to par...but I think thats where the webmaster and whoever else steps up to help "run" the site should step in. For that matter I think it wouldnt be unreasonable to appoint a submission editor, one person who can say yay or nay to a submission.


And constant updates and new material will be a must. But, from what I've seen, every week there is someone hitting the holonet looking for an artist to draw this or "hey, anyone know where I can get a picture of that"...so I would say weekly if not bi-weekly updates shouldnt be out of the question.

Not to mention, if in fact SW Gamer is going under (which Im sure it probably is)...then the only place to get new original cutting edge artwork for your rpg's will be WOTC sourcebooks or...you guessed it....the net'.



Just my dos cents of course.:D

darth maim
17 April 2002, 12:14 AM
I don't think anyone is so much looking to do this as a holonet forum but rather as a swrpgnetwork subsite (ie- conversions, submissions, and holonet)...

I'd be willing to go through subitted work and yay or nay it, I have a good eye for art and design quality as well as I'm constantly online and fully able to upload quickly and do the coding required to get it going smooth and frequent.

I would be able to upload the site daily if the art was there to do so...

BRodgers
17 April 2002, 05:26 AM
Hmmmm subsite? I dont know....

See, while I think that would be a grand idea I think there are a few things to consider...

First, I've always understood it to be good form to be "invited" to be a subsite. As such, I have yet to see any of the SWRPGNetwork webmasters chime in yet to invite us in as a subsite thus far.

Second, Ghost in the Holocron is doing a quality job as it is, and the last thing I think anyone wants to do, is, for lack of a better word, "infringe" on his territory...

And finally, and possibly the most important...if memory serves, Armage was on the holonet just a short while back talking about how its becoming increasingly more difficult to support SWRPGNetwork. Well, as someone already pointed out, a artists guild would more than likely be a heavily visited site(or subsite)...would this not tax the already strained resources of SWRPGNetwork? Just a consideration.

Anyway, I hope I'm not coming off as negative, I still think this is all a great idea, we just need to work some of the kinks out. And while I totally agree that being a substie of SWRPGNetwork would greatly increase our visibility, I just wanted to voice the above concerns...heck, they might not even be applicable, but oh well.

Ghost In The Holocron
17 April 2002, 06:51 AM
from BRodgers:

...and the last thing I think anyone wants to do, is, for lack of a better word, "infringe" on his territory...

Don't worry about it, folks. I've never really considered it to be my territory. Hope that's clear. In my opinion, as long as it's good stuff for the network -- hey! -- the more the merrier! :)

And I'm hitting a dry spot now as far as art output is concerned. Tried a few times today but it's all ugly, ugly, ugly! :( ... sigh... hopefully the fog will lift soon...

BRodgers
17 April 2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Ghost In The Holocron


And I'm hitting a dry spot now as far as art output is concerned. Tried a few times today but it's all ugly, ugly, ugly! :( ... sigh... hopefully the fog will lift soon...

Ah dont worry about it Ghost we all hit those dry spots, I'm sure you will come out of it and produce something grand! BTw, great job onthe stuff you have come up with so far...looks good!

The Admiral
17 April 2002, 02:44 PM
Intriguing. Just to throw something into the floor, AFAIK, TORIS has no size limitations, it might be possible to host a site under our banner that would fit the bill.

With regards the nature of a conceptual 'Guild of Star Wars Artists' doohickey, one would probably end up modelling the classic Guild scenario. You pay you Guild Dues in artwork.

However, since Guilds only exist to provide consistancy and mutual support with regards giving a service to clients, one would assume that a variant of TORIS' requests section would be needed. The Guild has to DO something, other than be a gallery. A website purely offering the artwork of it's members is nothing. At least, nothing really special. Were a site to offer access to a range of artists of varying techniques and talents, THEN it becomes something much more viable.

In order for that to work, some mechanism would have to be set up whereby no two Guild artists were working o the same project, that that is essentially a large database.

BRodgers
17 April 2002, 03:52 PM
Hey, thanks for the offer Admiral !

Toris is a quality site and, while I of course can only speak for myself, think it would be a great place to host this kind of site/project. And you are right, just a stand alone gallery, while it would be helpful to a degree, utlimately wouldn't offer much more to the community. However, a site offering made-to-order artwork, tutorials, artist bios, varying styles and methods and maybe even a "featured artist of the week/month" feature would go a long way towards promoting SW/ SWRPG fan art in the community.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Reverend Strone
17 April 2002, 06:29 PM
I think The Admiral poses a very good idea, and TORIS would be a fine host for such a feature, but lets wait and see what the SWRPG Network Webmasters' responce to this idea is before we begin setting things in motion.

A gallery feature like this would be a major commitment for anyone to undertake, as has been mentioned, so I think we should give them time to mull over and discuss the idea between themselves before we forge ahead.

Good idea though, and the invitation to post art at TORIS is very worthy of consideration I would say.

The Admiral
17 April 2002, 06:36 PM
Do bear in mind it's only half an offer. Dean would have to be behind the project too.

That said, so long as he wasn't having to do the coding, I can't see there being any problem. We've recentlly been assured that no concievable addition to TORIS would put us in danger of exceeding our welcome, and it would certainly make it a lot easier for me to contribute, as currently my work get's posted at TORIS (obviously).

Having the established requests section would make having that feature possibly a little easier than a dedicated site.

Still 'n' all, just rambling thoughts.

BRodgers
17 April 2002, 06:52 PM
Just out of curiosity....has anyone even mentioned this idea to the SWRPGNetowork webmasters?

I may have missed it but I haven't seen anyone post that they submitted this idea to them yet not have I seen any posts from the webmasters themselves. Did I miss a post somewhere?
:?

Reverend Strone
17 April 2002, 07:20 PM
I've been in touch with Moridin privately regarding this matter. By coincidence this was something that was raised in dialogue with him some weeks before these discussions began in the open forums.

I'm sure he and the other Webmasters are aware of the need for this kind of feature, and the offers from artists such as ourselves. That's why I'm inclined to say lets wait and hear what their thoughts are. I can't speak for them, but I doubt it's something they can make a quick decision on without consulting eachother first.

BRodgers
30 April 2002, 07:22 AM
For anyone still interested, there is currently a discussion involving an Artists Guild going on in the StarWars-RPG.Net Forums, under the "comments" section.

The first thread you may want to check is the "Whats going on with StarWars-RPG.Net"...it may clear up some questions before you head over to the SWAG thread.

Hope to see ya there!

hisham
30 April 2002, 05:05 PM
I think having SWArtists' Guild is a wonderful idea. I will be happy to contribute with any sort of art. I run Template Facades on GeoCities (I hope that don't turn some of you off). It's a Star Wars RPG Character Art service, which I provide for free. I've done some special requests for some clients (I use the term loosely).

If there's anything I can do to contribute just let me know.

Star Wars Template Facades (http://www.geocities.com/tfacade)

MTFBW----SWAG

Khairul Hisham
"It's the pen & ink & paint (traditional or digital) that binds the galaxy together"

BRodgers
30 April 2002, 06:04 PM
heya Hisham, glad to hear from ya!

I've checked your site out...very cool man, no turn off at all!

Chris Curtis mentioned that he was going to get in touch with you regarding this. Head on over to the SWAG thread in the starwars-RPG.Net forums...there is currently a discussion running involving the genesis of the SWAG. Good to have you along!

Chris Curtis
30 April 2002, 06:23 PM
{pops head up} Huh? Did someone mention my name?? :)

Seriously, though... It's good to see you joining the discussion, hisham. Just to make it easier for you, I'll post links to the relevant threads below:

What's Up With Starwars-rpg.net? (warning, it's long but quite useful)
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6706

S.w.a.g
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6766

Enjoy, and welcome to the boards!!