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Rouge8
22 April 2002, 04:40 PM
I got a question for today. Is Thrawn gone for good? I think he isn't. He must have some more clones in the Unknown Regions.

madpoet
22 April 2002, 05:59 PM
Thrawn is dead, but his legacy lives on. Personally, I'll be disappointed if they bring Thrawn back. It gives death a lack of permanancy that death represents. In some ways it belittles the life and death struggles that make the SW universe exciting.

Lord Kjeran
22 April 2002, 06:23 PM
In my game, I have an Empire on the comeback trail. Luke finally fell completely into the Dark Side and is the political leader; the clone Thraawn arrived to be the miltary genius behind the military; and a CorSec Vice Prex is the economic genius..

No Yuuzhan Vong (though I plan a traditional NJO game one day).

Dan Kyrinov
22 April 2002, 06:56 PM
He's got to be dead. The Hand of Thrawn was his final fortress, his 'last resort' and with his clone there destroyed, Thrawn's death is permanent. His legacy lives on in the form of shattered planets, tactics adapted against the Yuuzhan Vong, and the Chiss taking interest in the central galaxy.

And by the way, Lord Kjeran, that sounds like one heckuva comeback for the Empire, and a great idea for an infinity roleplaying campaign. That set of three for the leaders sounds pretty formidable, I'll bet it's a fun game to run.

Talonne Hauk
22 April 2002, 08:31 PM
I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but there was no Thrawn clone. Reread the Hand of Thrawn Duology. It was a con man impersonating Thrawn, with the help of an Imperial Moff and a former Imperial Guardsman. Thrawn is gone.

wolverine
22 April 2002, 10:37 PM
re-read it yourself. Mara and luke found it on the chiss planet where they were following the lead of a mysterious ship. It was a clone of thrawn grown slowly and fully, with regular flash imprinting, and a opening timer set for every 10 years.

Talonne Hauk
23 April 2002, 01:35 AM
My bad. I did just reread it. I am chagrined. But I'll stick by my last statement. Thrawn is gone. Zahn has said that he thought it was cheap that the Emperor came back in Dark Empire I and II. I think he'd frown on someone else bringing Thrawn back. Not that Lucasfilm couldn't, it's their character, but most artists would respect the original artist's intentions.

fury
23 April 2002, 06:06 AM
This smacks of the superweapon-of-the-week thought pattern that every GM grinds his teeth about.

If Thrawn were alive, we would have known it by now, either through emissaries of the Chiss territory or through another large faction. There is no way he could've stood by and watch the galaxy soil itself through the years in blundering stupidity.

Besides, let the Grand Admiral rest. He was defeated by the cunning of his enemies playing on the sympathies and righteous anger of his own protectors. I doubt any other death would've appealed to him.

reliant
23 April 2002, 08:58 AM
Thrawn is gone for good, or at least I hope so. At least we still have the Chiss and Admiral Palleon!

Lord Kjeran
23 April 2002, 01:20 PM
Chello!

Thanks, Dan. It is fun. Basically, I got the idea from the 1st and 2nd Triumvirate of Ancient Rome. Like the first Triumvirate of Julius, Pompey, and Crassus, we have a political, military and economic power. Like the 2nd Triumivirate, this one is formed after the Emperor's (20 yrs or os later, but hey).

Now to quote Dune, the tripod is the most unstable of political structures. Luke is founding his New Jedi Order...they're really Sith or fallen Jedi by now (there are bad reasons to found a Jedi Academy in a Massassi-Sith Temple); he's retreating deeper and deeper into his order and letting his political control slip. The clone Thraawn is only too happy to fill in the vaccuum.

However, the Vice Prex (Dalon) is head of a section of the CSA which has gobbled up close to 90% of the food contracts of Coruscant. Think about it this way: even modern cities like NC only have enough food on their shelves for 3, mayabe 5 days with resupply. Now picture a citywide planet. See the problem?

Note that this isn't all out in the open (though my PCs have figured all this out already). Luke hasn't called himself Darth ANYTHING. This triumvirate is doing what Augustus did...they aren't flaunting they're power.

Later,

Tony

Rouge8
23 April 2002, 06:04 PM
That must be one fun game.

Reverend Strone
23 April 2002, 11:18 PM
I hope he's dead. The whole clone thing is just so tedious. How many times do we have to go back to that well to tread out worthy villains for our heroes? Please no more cloned Emperors or Dark Jedi Masters or Grand Admirals. At least the Vong (and I'm no real fan of NJO, so this is a conciet) are vaguely original even if they are uber-villains.

darth maim
23 April 2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by revstrone
I hope he's dead. The whole clone thing is just so tedious. How many times do we have to go back to that well to tread out worthy villains for our heroes? Please no more cloned Emperors or Dark Jedi Masters or Grand Admirals. At least the Vong (and I'm no real fan of NJO, so this is a conciet) are vaguely original even if they are uber-villains.

First... you're one to bash clones... :D

Second they aren't that original, (the Vong I mean) go watch GI Joe the movie... they are the people from Cobrala

Reverend Strone
23 April 2002, 11:41 PM
First... you're one to bash clones...
Second they aren't that original, (the Vong I mean) go watch GI Joe the movie... they are the people from Cobrala

Conceeded on both counts.

reliant
24 April 2002, 05:06 AM
I'm going with revstone on this one. It is kind of irrititating when authors drag up old villains and just call them clones. Even if the Vong are exact copies of GI Joe villians, at least they are new to the Star Wars universe. Clones in Episode II is one thing, but rehashing old enemies again and again just gets lame after a while...

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
24 April 2002, 08:05 AM
DOH!

I was a major G.I.Joe fan in my kid years ... I never made the connection between the cobrala & vong... DOH on me! :D


Anyhoo , back ontopic to Thrawn & clones ... I doubt there's gonna be any more clones of thrawn ... In Zahn's last Duology, Luke & Mara practically destoyed that section of the place with the gaurd robots and the massive flooding of the chamber... Rather poetic as Luke & Mara destroyed that chamber at the same time realizing they're better together in all senses than apart... And I seriously doubt there'd be other thrawn cloning chambers elsewheres in Chiss space...

However, there is irony of the Galaxy's most anoyingly briliant tactician dying in the first place by his own trusted noghri body gaurd backstabing him... then coming back as a clone and wiping the vong of their feet ...

Apocalypse
24 April 2002, 01:00 PM
While it would kind of fit Thrawn's character to have a backup backup plan, (and thus more clones), I agree that bringing him back in this way would just not be cool.

He already died once, and then basically died again when they killed the clone. If they brought him back again, it would cheapen the signifigance of his earlier death.

Rouge8
24 April 2002, 05:40 PM
I just want him to lead one battle. So we can se his style, and I miss serving with Thrawn. He was the Best.

Ghost In The Holocron
24 April 2002, 07:17 PM
from darth maim: they aren't that original, (the Vong I mean) go watch GI Joe the movie... they are the people from Cobrala

from Terras: I never made the connection between the cobrala & vong... DOH on me!

Holy Gangrene! That's right! The Vong are the Cobra-La critters. The connection is fascinating.

And: Well put Rev and others. Every great villain deserves a good death. Sometimes a good return from death as well, but in this case it'll all just be iffy if Thrawn did come back at this point.

wolverine
24 April 2002, 10:06 PM
Actually, would he have had a child??? If so what about him (or her) showing up, after reading all of 'dads' notes and practicing all of his tricks. Even if they are not as good, at least it will have the same feel....

Or even, a prototype Fully sentient AI droid with all thrawns memories and tactics inputted (if this would be possible.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
24 April 2002, 10:26 PM
Wolverine: Actually, would he have had a child???

Hmm, Thrawn would have had to been fairly young in his life to do that, as he was with the empire for a very long time as he got his secret promotions up to grand admiral. Such status of non human in the empire was even more rare than females of officer & higher rank...

Anyone know exactly how long Thrawn was in the empire's service or what age he "enlisted" ? that might help throw some light on the subject...

CrazyDubya
26 April 2002, 02:55 AM
Thrawn's Age adn Length of service is unknown, although its max would be as long as the Empire stood plus a few years.

Also... Thrawn was sent back to his home area for most of His service upon reachin Grand Admiral. Read the Zahn Trilogy for more Info.

So he could've had a life over there, since he was at home. I mean Barron Fel was there and had a kid..y Not Thrawn? Perhaps Stent is his son or at least the tactical equivalent.

Also... What about that Admiral Parck.. I'm sure he is a tactical Genuis..Be fun to see him make a run at the Vong

madpoet
26 April 2002, 09:21 PM
The Yuuzhan Vong are the Cobra-La?? I never thought of that! Well, as a very wise man once said, "Now I know.... and knowing is half the battle.
:D

Also, Darth Maim is right. The last person who should be bad-mouthing clones is Revstrone. :raised:

Rouge8
27 April 2002, 05:18 AM
Why, is he a clone?

darth maim
27 April 2002, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by Rouge8
Why, is he a clone?

abso-friggin-lutely.

madpoet
27 April 2002, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Rouge8
Why, is he a clone?

If the theory flying around the Holonet is correct, Revstrone and dgswensen are clone twins.

:D

Rouge8
27 April 2002, 05:29 PM
INteresting. So there are some Spaariti Cloning Cylinders around.

Reverend Strone
28 April 2002, 05:26 PM
The last person who should be bad-mouthing clones is Revstrone.

Why, is he a clone?

abso-friggin-lutely.

If the theory flying around the Holonet is correct, Revstrone and dgswensen are clone twins.

Pardon this off-topic indulgence, but I feel the need to clarify a small point of error being bandied about.

Anyone with a modicum of discernment would be able to tell that dgswensen has to be the clone. To suggest that the good Reverend would be some kind of cheap facsimile is bordering on the preposterous.

I happen to be the original.

Tonda
29 April 2002, 12:36 PM
Clones get a little boring after the bring back to many people only to kill them again. Whether or not the Vong are original or not doesn't matter. They are a change ffrom the rehashed plots they were using. "No more Clones" I say. But either way if they did bring him back he would have to have a pretty good story to explain his Not dying.:p

FlipDog 2000
3 May 2002, 06:30 AM
Thrawn's dead, just like Chewie....GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO FLAME POSTS IN MY FORUM!!!!:mad:

-Arakyd

darth maim
3 May 2002, 08:49 AM
Good god Flipdog... you have definately returned huh? and with a vengeance to boot. :D

Grim Fantango
3 May 2002, 08:50 AM
AMEN!!!!!

No one word posts, please.

-Arakyd

scourgicus
7 May 2002, 12:20 PM
I am a huge Zahn fan - actually his books are, I feel, the best in the EU (please don't flame me!) - and as much as I love Thrawn (absolutely the coolest SW villian since Vader), he is dead. I was really hoping they'd let the clone live - and be occupied with Chiss-war stuff - but alas.

I would love to know how Thrawn would have approached the Vong. He certainly would've picked up on their love of sacrifice and hate of technology. Would he have used Ssi-Ruuk entechment? Oh that would have been a sinfully delicious irony. Or find a way for no honorable deaths? Disease, hit and fade strikes and so forth.

Of course the other big question is...would Thrawn have sought out another Dark Jedi to aid him as C'baoth? OF COURSE AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN - THE EMPEROR'S CLONE!!! :D Sorry I coudn't resist :D

Grim Fantango
7 May 2002, 03:19 PM
I think thrawn would've looked at their facial markings, known all their strengths and weaknesses exactly, figured out how ta beat 'em with minimum effort and maximum efficency, and then gone to breakfast...

jordanian
8 May 2002, 12:41 PM
Going back to Thrawn having children, he was awfully young when he was first in the empire's service, but as jagged fel stated in NJO that the Chiss have no adolesence and therefore his being young may not have mattered. Although I do doubt Thrawn would've had children. To me, I could never see the tactical genius romancing women...

Rouge8
8 May 2002, 06:06 PM
I wouldn't be talking Rebel. Thrawn can do what he wants. Who could see a slave and a queen? Or a Smuggler and a Princess? Or Han with anyone? All very good questions. I forgot. Or Luke and Mara? Powerful the force is except when compared to the Emporer. The Emporer is better then that dorky farmboy who maried Mara. I'm getting a caried away. Anyway.


Colonel Gavin Terrek, Emporer's Hand










End Transmission

jordanian
8 May 2002, 06:27 PM
good point, In SW types don't matter. If he wanted to, Thrawn could probably smell her perfume and figure out the perfect way to romance her.

darth maim
8 May 2002, 07:09 PM
ok... I have no problem with the idea of Thrawn having children... I DO however have a problem with Thrawn's children being considered gifted tacticians because they're thrawn's children... it cheapens him to say his intuition and intellegence was merely genetic.

jordanian
8 May 2002, 07:44 PM
I agree, thrawn has been cheapened already by WOTC, as in AA they state that ALL Chiss are tactly minded.

Tonda
9 May 2002, 07:22 AM
The reason all Chiss are Tactically minded is because of being tought tactics from an early age, It doesn't matter what area of expertise they get into. Tactics are taught to EVERYONE!

jordanian
9 May 2002, 02:10 PM
yes, but that fact was created long after Thrawn was introduced.

Dan Kyrinov
9 May 2002, 02:37 PM
Tactics can be spread out to a multitude of fields, it isn't limited as a special quality to only military tactics. I also believe, from portrayals of Shawnkyr Nuruodo and even Jag Fel, that it has to do with their culture and their harsh homeowlrd of Cheunh. True, the authors and roleplaying editors probably were thinking of Thrawn, but in Star Wars, entire races are very often judged by one representative.

Bjorn
9 May 2002, 02:44 PM
I think he's gone for good too. I really hope they don't have him return as a Clone in any of the NJO books. He was a great character, but his time has passed.



Bjorn

Jedi_Staailis
9 May 2002, 03:37 PM
it would kind of fit Thrawn's character to have a backup backup plan, (and thus more clones)

In a way, maybe. But there are risks with having two clones. When they both come out, you have a serious power struggle on your hands. The only way to prevent this would be to put them on different timetables so one could emerge first, then make sure that that each had the location of the other waiting clone (so he could dispose of it if need be). Of course, giving said clone access to the location of the other defies the whole purpose of a backup plan. Once one location becomes insecure, so does the other.

scourgicus
10 May 2002, 10:16 AM
I read somewhere that Thrawn's "preemptive strike" was against the Outbound Flight. :raised: which means Thrawn was around during (though perhaps not involved in) the Clone Wars. Which would make him...how old? Anyone else know anything about this?

kalamaro
20 May 2002, 02:31 AM
with thrawn everything is possible

FlipDog 2000
11 June 2002, 07:30 AM
One would think that....no?

Yeah, as far as I know, Thrawn carried out the preemtive strike against the Outbound Flight Project and was not really banished, but just like "excommunicated" from home. Thrawn attacked the ship because he saw it as a threat to his home world.

Rouge8
11 June 2002, 06:52 PM
I agree with Flipdog about Thrawn. A good idea: thrawn as a sith lord that fights with two sabers.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
12 June 2002, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by reliant
Even if the Vong are exact copies of GI Joe villians, at least they are new to the Star Wars universe.

Not really. Anyone remember the Charon?



Originally posted by Rouge8t
A good idea: thrawn as a sith lord that fights with two sabers.
:raised:

Superdog
12 June 2002, 06:32 AM
I think it would be ironic and funny if Thrawn's kid shows up and is a complete bumbling idiot. This guy makes Jar Jar look like Einstein, and evebody will always give him a wide berth and ask him for advice, while he just stands there with a stupefied look on his face.

Rouge8
12 June 2002, 03:48 PM
Don't insult Chiss ever.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Superdog
12 June 2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Rouge8
Don't insult Chiss ever.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I'll try better next time.

Rouge8
17 June 2002, 05:42 PM
Very well. But bewre I have informants inside the Empire who will tell me if you are lying. (My informants are every where I am the Emporer's Hand).