View Full Version : Thoughts on the Force....PART 1

darth maynard
17 May 2002, 11:45 AM
this topic may have been beaten to death, but here are some thoughts:Thoughts on the Force: Dark Side, Light Side, and Balance
The characterization of the Dark and Light sides of the Force as Evil and Good (respectively) is a vast oversimplification of the true nature of the Force. Described as a vast energy field permeating the Galaxy and generated by all living things the Force is a sort of personification of nature and as such contains its essential essence; Life and Death, Predator and Prey, coexistence and territoriality. There are obvious parallels between the Force and the Yin-Yang, yet it is only when a sentient being draws upon and utilizes the power of the Force, filtering it through their mind, that its energies become colored by the concepts of Good and Evil.

Another perspective would be that the ‘Light’ side of the force could be represented as plant life, coexisting and living together in a vast, interdependent ecosystem while the ‘Dark’ side could be considered to be animal life and the eternal hunt for both superiority and sustenance, predator and prey, leader and follower.

As dual sides of the same coin, the focus on one aspect to the neglect of the other will naturally disturb the balance, throwing all out of whack.

A further thought, in the movies and the extended universe of the books it is plainly apparent that drawing upon the dark side gives enormous power, much more than the light side can supply on its own. Yet the light side is more controllable, given to a greater finesse and a much finer touch than the dark side. Sort of like the difference between a scalpel and a chainsaw. Now, it seems to me that the complete denial of the ‘dark’ side of the Old Republic Jedi seems to be having the effect of diminishing their overall power levels. The control is still there, but the batteries are getting low as it were.

darth maynard
17 May 2002, 11:46 AM
Anakin Skywalker: Emotionally Immature Rebellious Teenager
I have seen and heard some criticisms of the portrayal of Anakin Skywalker in Episode II, describing him as 2-dimensional, an arrogant brat instead of the darkly suave, increasingly evil individual many seem to have expected. I couldn’t disagree more. It became apparent to me after Episode I that Anakin’s path to the Dark-Side is best summed up by that old saying, ‘The road to hell is paved with good intentions.’ This was further supported by Episode II and the fact that Anakin had retained his youthful idealism, which was apparent in his (admittedly unrealistic and juvenile) insistence that there should be a Galaxy where there is Justice for all, and no one should suffer.

Unfortunately this idealism was tempered and influenced by his relative lack of emotional development. This is completely attributable to the age at which he was separated from his mother to begin his training. At the time the practice was to discover and ‘adopt’ children with the Jedi potential while they where still infants. A practice that allowed them to be raised completely within the order and so ensure that any emotional attachments normally formed to family are instead to the order. Not so with Anakin, he was recruited at a stage where a boy’s emotional attachment to, and dependency on, his mother could be argued to be the strongest. This led to a bit of a lack in the rate of his emotional development, since he was never able to complete his emotional evolution and eventual natural separation from his mother, instead being completely cut-off from her for 10 years. It’s also my postulation that this emotional retardation is Obi-Wan’s big failure as Anakin’s teacher.

It’s plainly obvious to anyone who saw it that Obi-Wan surrendered to his anger and delved a bit into the Dark Side to kill Darth Maul after he witnessed the death of his master, Qui-Gon. I believe that this event caused Obi-Wan to distrust his emotions and strengthened his resolve to control his passions and never again lose control like that, in effect he made himself emotionally repressed. And you are really in no position to help others work through their problems and grow emotionally if you do not understand your own emotions.

The Jedi Council should also have realized that due to Anakin’s advanced age when beginning the training, the rules should have been altered to allow him periodic contact with his mother, great trouble could have been averted if this had been so.

darth maynard
17 May 2002, 11:48 AM
Jedi of the Old Republic: Wooden Performances, or Accurate Portrayals?
Another criticism I keep seeing in reviews is that the Jedi of the Jedi Council all deliver truly 2-dimensional, wooden performances. I believe that is a misinterpretation of what Lucas was trying to convey, which was the degree to which the Jedi of the day had controlled and repressed the passionate side of their natures in their ongoing attempts to keep the Dark Side at bay. Control of their passionate emotions to this degree would naturally make them look like a group of Spock wannabes.

The Chosen One and Prophecy: How will Anakin restore Balance to the Force?
If Anakin is indeed the Chosen One, how is he meant to restore balance? Its my opinion that he would have accomplished this by showing the Council that it was indeed possible to retain and listen to your passionate emotions, love – hate – fear – etc, and still be a potent Jedi Knight without courting the Dark Side, that you could respect and utilize both sides of the force in a responsible manner without giving in completely to its darker aspects. This was of course perverted and hijacked by Darth Sidious (Its Palpatine, admit it) with his corruption of Anakin into Darth Vader. This leads naturally to the speculation; “What kind of Jedi would Anakin have been if he had not fallen to the Dark Side? Could he have saved the Old Republic?” Only Lucas knows for sure.

Thanks folks! I'm very interested in any and all reponses!

Tony J Case, Super Genius
17 May 2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by darth maynard

The Chosen One and Prophecy: How will Anakin restore Balance to the Force?
If Anakin is indeed the Chosen One, how is he meant to restore balance?

My take on this isn't as literal as most people take it. Its a prophesy open to a wide interpretation, not to be taken word for word. It's kind of like a Zen koan, a question without an answer.

So, what do I think it means? How do I see Anakin bringing balance? Simple - the Jedi have grown complacent, too set in their ways. Everyone's favorite Dark Lord is a kick to the pants that the Jedi desperately needed, moving them out of the order and structure that has mired them down and now keeps them from doing their job.

17 May 2002, 01:17 PM
I think the thing about the force in the movies is that it's tainted by lucas. (what? you may ask didn't he create it?) well yes and no. He created the wording and the setting but the force is like many things in earth society. As mentioned before yin and yang. But the way Lucas portrays it you have pure light and pure dark which is not Y&Y. But it also represents Chi. (I'm not sure how to explain that to you because i've so intermeshed the two concepts in my head that I can't seperate them. So I hope you know the concept already). But the idea of yin and yang is that neither is really evil or good (as those are relative concepts) and they are always in balance. 10000 jedi to 2 sith is hardly balanced. So Vader did inded balance the force. There is no life without death, while morbid is true. To grow one must consume. I agree very much with your portrayal of the jedi vulcans, I could retype all my recent posts but it might just be easier to tell you to look them up through my profile. Safice to say that lucas' portrayal of the star wars story is tainted by his views of the world. I find his idea that jedi that can't love, are raise as jedi from such an early age, ect is disturbing. It's the loves and experiances of live that form our greatest people. To do otherwise is to make a person that has no conection to the world around them, that is dangerous, because such a person has no personal consequences for gennocide. I also find it strange that the jedi seem to have such a fear of the darkside that they repress themselves to the point of not recognising the fear they act on to avoid the darkside. It's hard to explain but it seems that they fear themselves and their ability to become darksiders and by their own admission fear leads to the darkside. I don't buy that bit about fear or any actual emotion leading to the darkside. It's a flaw in a persons logic that let's them believe they are better then other or that they can do what they want as long as it doesn't harm them. Also I tend to look at it from the perspective that some use about firearms. The force (guns) are not good or evil, it's the intent of the person who weilds it. and those intents are shaped by life and the individuals own biology. It's no secret that the Mountain lion and the Cow have very different ways of interacting with the world, so give a light saber to which one? No Look at individual among species and you'll see passives among the Mountain Lion and agressive Cows. Maybe the wireing between individuals is different but it also has to do with how they were raised. So it's neither nuture or nature it's both. Individual emotions at a given moment such as OB1 vs. Maul, he was angry but he didn't turn dark but he was angry hurt and probably a little afraid. But other padawans may have slipped to the darkside at a time like this. The Jedi are so caught up in their fear of the darkside that they preventing the young from experiancing these types of problems in lesser forms, so that they don't know how to deal with them. I don't have the answers but the force is part of life and so are emotions, to seperate the to is to lie about the nature of the universe. I've rambled and gotten distracted so I'll go now and try again when my thought are more organised.

17 May 2002, 04:47 PM
Yeah I fully agree with all of you and none of you at the same time. I get what your saying about the force needing to be balanced and that 10,000 good versus 2 dark is hardly balanced. And I fully agree with you on the fact that Lucas indeed did taint it and twist it perversly to his own idealism. But the question I have is that the only way to balance out the force when there are only two sith and ten thousand Jedi would be for the "one to bring balance to the force" to clearly stand opposite the majority. So whydidn't Yoda see it coming? I realize he said that he sensed fear agression etc. in him but with how smart they make yoda out to be it seems as though he would have seen that one coming.

But like yin and yang as stated above the reason there is a small dot of the opposite color in both spectrums is because good cannot exist with out evil and vice versa. Each greedly pulls on the other to stay up.

"I can't belive you think this is a good idea. I think were dead meat" -CrazyNuts

17 May 2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by CrazyNuts
So whydidn't Yoda see it coming? I realize he said that he sensed fear agression etc. in him but with how smart they make yoda out to be it seems as though he would have seen that one coming.

Maybe the reason why they never saw it coming was because it was a Jedi prophecy, they made it up, and they couldn't see it helping anyone else. Maybe the whole prophecy itself is bunk, and he's just another jedi.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
17 May 2002, 05:30 PM
The future is always in motion.

at the time when anakin was brought to the council, there was potential seen in him. but in the spanse of 10yrs time, it came down to anakin's inner troubles and missing of his own mother... none of the council could have predicted anakin would eventually save his own mother just as she passes on... However, the council was hesitant of anakin due to such potential happenings that could affect him deeply and sway him to the darkside... a student who can become the greatest jedi, can also become the most dangerous & powerful sith ...

in a sense it does seem like a prophecy... a dark prophecy. a young child is found with exceptionally high midiclorines... the council is weary and goes against it's own code about not taking in force adepts above a certain age. they do this reluctantly and train him. as a padawan, anakin isn't respective and obediant to his master and is internally troubled. few more triggers sets anakin towards the inevitable dark side. the student battles his master and loses. anakin gets resurected and the great sith vader is borne, marking the end of the great jedi council. prophecy fulfilled.