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TC-3
21 May 2002, 03:57 PM
This thread is for comments on the entry entitled "<a href="http://submissions.swrpgnetwork.com/entry.php?s=&id=1493" target="_blank" title="This link will open in a new window.">Korath Lorren, Jedi Weapon Master</a>" located on Submissions. Please post your comment on this entry below using the "Post Thread" button; you may also post a comment via a link from the entry itself.

Barak
21 May 2002, 03:58 PM
Thats a damn cool trick, turning the 'saber off and then on... Is there any system for the actual game so players can try the manouver?

Ronan Ap Llyr
23 May 2002, 06:15 AM
A cool trick maybe, but a dangerous one! Just imagine you turn off your weapon in the midle of a battle! Master Lorren was lucky his adversary won't take advantage of the situation. Sometime when the Force is not enough, a great dose of luck is welcomed.

Tramp
10 June 2002, 11:17 AM
Actually, trying to catch that manuver would probalbly be pretty difficult, IMO, as you're waiting until your opponent moves to block the strike befor turning the blade off a fraction of a second before the blades make contact. As for official rules on this, I haven't a clue. I pulled this off back in the D6 system and the GM just had my opponent make a surprise check to see if he could catch it in time. More than likely it'd be a fient followed by a touch attack which if successful would leave the target helpless to a Coup de Grace. Just my thoughts.

Rouge8
23 June 2002, 11:57 AM
He is powerful. Is there anyway someone could have Rigil fix the Deflect thing? (My rulebook isn't with me.)

Rouge8
23 June 2002, 11:59 AM
Oh about the trick that is cool. I wonder what the D20 rules for that are? (I will maybe make some).

Tramp
24 June 2002, 07:14 AM
IMO, it should be a Feignt, followed immediately by a touch attack with a Coup de Grace in the round imediately following; However WizO the Hutt over on the WotC board is saying that you can't force someone to be helpless in the middle of combat. I don't entirely agree with this because if you use cunning and stratigy, you can, in reality, put someone so totally off balance and off guard that he can't avoid your strike. A prime example is grappling with someone and, while doing so, wecretly pulling a gun and placing it at his stomach. The victim can't dodge the upcomming shot. He's helpless . According to WizO, this can't be done. It doesn't make sense to me.

Rouge8
24 June 2002, 11:08 AM
WizO the Hutt obviously makes no sense. Tramp I agree with you though.

Jim Williams
3 December 2002, 10:08 AM
BUMP

This is a tough one because in the end, it could be abused. Keeping in mind the idea that everyone is welcome to do whatever they want in their campaign, here are my thoughts:

> First, the maneuver is difficult, and the main factor in pulling it off is one's ability with a lightsaber and timing in the Force. Since progressing in Jedi levels does both, some kind of attack roll is called for.

> Depending on how the target blocks, they very well could inadvertently strike the attacker as their block encounters no resistance and follows through into the attacker.

> What effect are we looking for? An easier critical hit based on a cool move.

> I would make this ability a Devastating Strike visualization for Jedi Weapon Masters. For other Jedi doing this cool move, the GM has two options: disallow it, or require some kind of Sense-based skill check with an obscenely high DC to be rolled for, like 35 or 40. If successful, the Jedi may attempt a Devastating Strike as per PotJ. If the skill check fails, the Jedi incurs all the penalties as if they had successfully attempted and failed the Devastating Strike. Ideas for the Sense-based check:
a) Wisdom check DC 30, +1 per Jedi level.
b) Farseeing check (the special ability allowed in combat as per the RCR) with an additional +10 to the DC.
c) Telepathy check possibly based on reading the opponent's intentions as YOU swing. DC hmmmm, 35?

starkiller210
9 May 2003, 03:03 PM
I agree with Tramp, it should be fient followed by Coup de Grace

Tramp
3 July 2003, 03:05 PM
If you guys want to see what Korath looks like, go to SWAG. Ther's two pics of him on there. One is me in costume, the other is an illustration I did. Check "em out and tell me what you think.

Mathis Kharr
3 July 2003, 10:09 PM
Neet trick , would work on a novice.

Firstly let me point out something to you Jedi. That trick is extemely agressive. You guys are sposed to preserve life, Not kill. If possible even a darksider is better spared then killed . This little trick doesn't do that. It's an easy trick and not an original one. In my campaigns pcs have tried to pull this and simular moves all the time. Shuting off the opponents blade, doings tramps trick or simular ones. It is my bet that jedi have been doing such things for millenia and I bet that most sword fighting styles probably incorperate counters to such things. Where a novice would be fooled by such a thing a master would not. And trying such against one would cost the trickster thier life.

Example. as a Gm someone tried tramps little gambit on an Npc, and it cost them thier arm and a leg.

On a Gm's note such a trick is not available in the rules because it gives the Pcs a simple method of killing the enemy with little or no fight. Such tricks are left in books such as when Horn did it to that Vong. Which is probably where this trick orignated from anyhow. The vong id not know how to completly deal with the infidel tech and probably never thought such a trick was possible.

the other problem is timing such a act. Lightsabers unlike other swords have a wieght issue. and the concentration nessesary to survive a fight is tremendous (ask a sword fighter) suddenly trying to thumb off your blade is a huge risk which only a fool would take or someone who has little to loose and is trying one last desperate move to try and survive. The chances of such a thing working are nominal at best. and even if it did you still have to deal with the opponents sword you did not parry leaving you helpless against its cut.

Thats my two or three sense

Tramp argue away!!!

Jedi Master Antilles
6 July 2003, 01:19 AM
nah .....thats not darkside...overly aggresive for a jedi yes, cautioning or treading towards the darkside maybe but not warranting a darkside point..ya want darkside and aggresive though how bout turning off your opponents lightsaber with move object as you are swinging yours at his head..(no bluff check needed.because your swinging at the person anyway...just a move object,difficulty check and a save for the object is all, plus a surprise for the victim at negatives )..ha ha! now that will make things roll.... literally! plus the loom of surprise as they realize their blade has just deactivated and that they're f**ked is priceless.

Jedi Master Antilles
6 July 2003, 09:22 PM
i was just looking at the character itself and realized a major mistake on that submission.i am curious as to how this character can have the jedi master prestige class ..when he only has 6 lvls of jedi guardian? i do know the book states jedi may take master prestige class upon reaching 13th lvl or after 7th lvl providing the jedi has an apprentice..doesn't say anything bout 6th lvl (its in there in black and white). and i realize the character has 4 lvls of weapon master but those do not count towards jedi lvls(again stated there in black and white).since they too are a prestige class.so the question is..how can this char have jedi master prestige class...he doesn't meet the requirements for the class.maybe ya need to fudge some of those lvls abit to make it "To the rules of the book" .

Tramp
6 July 2003, 09:30 PM
Jedi Prestige Classes do count towards Jedi levels. That was asked and answered in Jedi Counciling and in the FAQ a long time ago.

Jedi Master Antilles
7 July 2003, 11:08 AM
yep...my bad that they do..i just looked in my book today..jedi master class doesnt apply to lvls though.thats the only exception.

Tyrn
18 September 2003, 03:26 PM
This trick here wouldn't it draw an Attack Of Oppurtunity by the rules? You are turning your lightsaber off and then back on, which would actually draw 2 attacks of oppurtunity with the appropriate feats. Unless I have the rules completely wrong wouldnt this be the same as drawing a weapon? Granted the weapon is in your hand but its not a weapon till its ignited (very strict interpretation of drawing a weapon yes i know). Short of physically doing something to the opponent I personally dont see how he can helpless in the middle of combat.

As for the darkside mumbo jumbo... I personally dont think this would be overly aggressive. If the Jedi has already drawn his weapon he has made the decision and conscious choice that someone is going to possibly die today. Granted he is supposed to avoid conflict but when conflict occurs he is bound to end it as quickly as possible to minimize those effected by it.

Once again these are the views of one Tyrn and do not represent anyone elses other than his own!

Tramp
18 September 2003, 04:39 PM
The whole thing about this little trick, which I picked up after reading the write-up on Andur Sunrider's Master, Chamma, in the Tales of the Jedi Companion from WEG, iis that you turn the blade off just as the opponent's weapon is about to block your lightsaber, or in Corran Horn's case, during his duel with Shedao Shai, while your opponent is pressing down, against yours and overbalanced himself, so that he falls over you when you deactivate your lightsaber,, and thus can get the weapon against his body and Coup deGrace him by reactivating it directly into him with the emitter physically against his body. According to the WizO's and JD, you're not allowed to do that, because, you apparently can't make someone who's in combat "helpless". Whether some of what is in the Hero's Guide has broadened the conditionsd for a Coup de Grace changes this, is up for debate, but because of the iming of the trick, no he wouldn't get an AoO, because, in essence, what you're doing is a special form of Fient.

Jim Williams
21 September 2003, 03:57 PM
All other mechanics aside, I'd say activating and deactivating a lightsaber does not provoke an AoO because it would be "Switch Weapon Mode" IMO and not "Activate an Item"...

Tav Kord
21 September 2003, 04:15 PM
You could possibly remove the target's dex bonus to defense and get an AoO for that trick, but I think a CdG is a bit excessive. After all, I can sneak up on someone and put a stilletto through the back of their skull (purely by game mechanics) and still only do 1d6 damage because he is only flat-footed, not helpless. Otherwise, its GM perogative, and to be used as "story effect" only, I'd imagine.

Besides, do you flashlight-wielders REALLY nead ANOTHER way to kill somone? :P hehe