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Reverend Strone
22 May 2002, 06:36 PM
You know it only just occured to me why Luke told Artoo he should stay put when they 'landed' on Dagobah in ESB. Sure, there was the likelihood of Artoo taking a dip, which of course he did, but I reckon the real reason was Luke wasn't too sure how he would get the darned thing back in once he hopped out (R2 droids look kinda heavy to me).

I mean, back on Yavin, we saw R2s being dropped into their craft from above by cranes. Given that Y-wings and X-wings load their R2 units from above, unlike the N-1s which more logically grab from below, how was Luke supposed to get Artoo back into his alcove in the middle of a swamp without a crane? It's kinda lucky Yoda taught him "Move Object" while he was there.

Perhaps AOTC yields us with an answer, and gives a rational explanation for something I personally thought was very silly in the movie-

I guess now we know why R2s have those rather ridiculous flying rocket jets seen in the Droid Foundry scene.

reliant
23 May 2002, 05:49 AM
I never thought of that until you just mentioned it... I somehow don't see a whole load of r2 units flying up into their droid sockets on Y and X-Wings. It would just be a waste of energy I would think... Those Naboo fighters did it right by grabbing them from below, I guess with Y's and X's no one ever planned for you to get out and take the droid with you unless you were in a base with a crane. Luke cruises the galaxy in his X-Wing but that's not really what they were for...

As for why r2 has the rockets, I kind of figured it was because they have to go outside of the ship (like in EP 1). If your r2 unit gets blasted off your hull (or falls off) it would be nice if they could come back to you, instead of you having to go and get them. Also, if your ship happened to lose gravity, having the r2 able to manuever around (instead of just floating around smashing into stuff) certainly would be helpful.

The rockets would help loads in space (or areas lacking gravity), but I fail to see the reasoning for making them powerful enough for him to fly on planets with gravity and atmosphere... If I was the engineer designing r2 units I'd just give them air jets or something to manuever with instead of full blown rocket packs...

Reverend Strone
23 May 2002, 02:12 PM
The rockets would help loads in space (or areas lacking gravity), but I fail to see the reasoning for making them powerful enough for him to fly on planets with gravity and atmosphere... If I was the engineer designing r2 units I'd just give them air jets or something to manuever with instead of full blown rocket packs...

Yeah I tend to agree- manuveuring jets as opposed to full-on blast-off style thrusters.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
25 May 2002, 10:42 PM
Yeah... It seems like R2 was given special treatment and was made into "Astro-mech boy" to fit the story scene :p

Oh well, just ignore that scene and handle it the traditional way. (yeah, there's lots of stuff from the 2 prequels that contradict the three original movies. just as in the cut-away book, the r2 dome raises upwards on a hydrolic shaft apart from its body on the N-1 starfighter, and we're seeing r2 units way more capable than previously.)

Reverend Strone
26 May 2002, 03:12 AM
...the r2 dome raises upwards on a hydrolic shaft apart from its body on the N-1 starfighter,..

The crazy thing about that was it was unecessary. I mean okay, his shoulders don't fit because of the design of the fighter, so perhaps he faces sideways and turns his wee turreted head? No need then for all that crazy transforming.

Sherman Shipyards
26 May 2002, 11:57 PM
My guess is that the rockets were an extra that Anakin had instaled. He has own the droid for 9 or so years. Who is to stay that he didn't advange of the "wasted" space designed in to the R2 series.

Later, when R2 was with Alderaan's droid pool a teck comes along, thinks "why would any on in his right mind put rockets on a R2 unit" and rid it all out. The rockets are probably require a lot of maintence too.

Now back to the use of cranes.
Most starfighter squadrons with some sort of shuttle when traveling without a Capital ship. (Rogue Squadron travel with a Lamba shuttle piloted by Tencho, and the Wraiths had simlair arrangment.) A small, foldable crane could be stored in the shuttle and pulled out when needed. If it is a lone fighter then the R2 could to be modifed to have repulsors.

Just some thoughts.

Reverend Strone
27 May 2002, 03:04 AM
My guess is that the rockets were an extra that Anakin had instaled. He has own the droid for 9 or so years. Who is to stay that he didn't advange of the "wasted" space designed in to the R2 series.

I don't know about that. Nice theory, but I think R2 belonged to Amidala didn't he? I haven't read the AOTC novel, so I could well be wrong about this.

Craig Feely
27 May 2002, 04:33 PM
.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
27 May 2002, 10:37 PM
I think I remember that droid your talking about Craig ... the trilogy with the centerpoint station I believe... and it was a Drall teacher that had a droid that had to have all the latest droid mods installed...

I dunno if the droid did the mods itself, i doubt it could have done all of them... but still, thats always cool to see, droids getting upgraded from their initial factory release capabilities...

as for r2 and the jets, r2 was in amidala's company for the last 10 yrs or so while anakin was off learning and going on jedi quests with obiwan...

if you recal, when anakin was walking with padme up the steps on naboo, r2 was trailing behind, having to climb each step one at a time painstakingly slow..... we see that.... yet for the scene in the droid factory, he instantly becomes "astro-mech boy" (pardon the pun) and saves padme... still seems like that was an instant idea put to use without it being thought out... as many features r2 can pack inside his body, there just ain't room for everything... or if ya looked at r2's equipment list on the d20 stats sheet, taking all these abilities and capabilities would make that list unbelievably huge...

Sherman Shipyards
27 May 2002, 11:38 PM
if you recal, when anakin was walking with padme up the steps on naboo, r2 was trailing behind, having to climb each step one at a time painstakingly slow..... we see that.... yet for the scene in the droid factory, he instantly becomes "astro-mech boy" (pardon the pun) and saves padme...

So Padme had the mods done. After the close shave that happen in E1, super rockets are a good idea. However, I don't think that option comes stock.


still seems like that was an instant idea put to use without it being thought out... as many features r2 can pack inside his body, there just ain't room for everything... or if ya looked at r2's equipment list on the d20 stats sheet, taking all these abilities and capabilities would make that list unbelievably huge...

Here's R2-D2's Extra's to date: Parascope, Interal storage / lightsaber laucher, and everyone's favorite rockets.

Another R2 unit, named Vape, Had a beer cooler/despencer put into him. He had room for at least five bottles. (from theX-wing: Wraith Squadron book.)

Reverend Strone
28 May 2002, 07:31 PM
Here's what I found out about this subject over at TheForce.net-

"As you know, R2-D2 has the ability to fly using tiny rockets in Episodes I and II, but no longer possesses this ability in the Classic Trilogy. The reason, according to Holonetnews.com, is an expired warranty on his rockets after twenty years! This fact is so amusing that Entertainment magazine featured it in their latest issue. Our little droid is the victim of an expired warranty! Who would have thought it! "-Marmot

LOL

:D

bagman19
30 May 2002, 08:13 PM
I still don't see an acceptable fix to the R-series droid problem. How does it get to and from its ship by itself?

Also, there has been mention of other companies that make astromechs, but apparently they don't fit exaclty into the sockets. Are there any examples of these inferior astromechs?

reliant
31 May 2002, 04:41 AM
I still don't see an acceptable fix to the R-series droid problem. How does it get to and from its ship by itself?

I think the answer is: it doesn't. Except for the Naboo fighters, I don't remember any other bottom loading fighters. I guess since most fighters are designed to be deployed from carriers, which would have those cranes to put the droids in. Even on a temporary base, you'd just send the crane down with the mechanics and other support stuff.

The only reasons I can think of for not using the bottom load design would be cost and maintenance. It's probably much cheaper to mass produce ships with a simple socket (no moving parts) then stick the droid in rather than a smart socket that not only detects the droid, but automatically sucks it up into the socket and gets it all ready to go AND seals itself up after the droid is in. Plus you have all the moving parts that cover the bottom of the droid (I don't remember seeing tons of holes in the bottoms of all the naboo fighters) that would require maintenance and probably be somewhat of a headache for mechanics and technicians that have to get tons of them ready to go in between space battles.

Simple ships and cranes would probably be easier and cheaper in the long run. Besides, I don't think there is much need for R2 units to get in and out of the ship. Luke was cruising around in his X-WIng, but that wasn't really what it was for. If you were somewhere that you didn't have access to the crane to pull out the droid, he'd just have to stay behind and watch the ship or something...

Craig Feely
31 May 2002, 07:55 AM
Luke was cruising around in his X-WIng, but that wasn't really what it was for. If you were somewhere that you didn't have access to the crane to pull out the droid, he'd just have to stay behind and watch the ship or something...

I agree. I'm currently re-reading the X-wing series for fun and there have been numerous cases even just in Rogue Squadron where Corran Horn has told his R2 Whistler to watch over the ship. He even instructs Whistler to bring the ship up on repulsors and even fire the ships' laser cannons if someone unfriednly approaches the ship. This makes the R2/5/7 units seem like very capable security systems. Perhaps with a little upgrade on the piloting module, the droid could even pliot the ship to saftey if the pilot became incapacitated.

The Admiral
10 June 2002, 04:48 PM
Ah, Industrial Automaton's Rocket Pants (tm)


IMHO, hey, they HAVE rocket pants. R2's may well have run out of fuel or something but they HAVE 'em.

As for getting in and out of X-Wings, anyone have any canon evidence that they can't get in from the underside?

That said, Astromechs are the swiss army knife of the star wars universe, I wouldn't put it past R series droids to have spangly head clamps to hoist themselves in if push came to shove.

"Uh, R2, you have a three point six decimal power wrench?"
"bweeep"
"Oh good. Tighten that brath bearing would ya? Cool. Hey, how about a number seven Gullian Strip?"
"bweee-op"
"Dandy, that strovian gap could do with a gullianiration, there."
"vree-dap"
"Stang, now I got oil all over my tunic,,,"
"dooo-laaaaaarp"
"Well, gee, thanks, that got it right out."
"vaaaarp nucka nucka"
"Can you reach that Kargia B type skelnord?"
"kaaaaaaaaaaaablorp"
"Thanks. Oh, and you got one too. Cool."
"vvveeeeeeeeeep"
"Yeah."
(crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle pop pop pop pop popopopopopopopopop sizzle)
"Heh, bang grains? Thanks, little guy, you keep those inside?"
"vreeep"
"Ah, well, thanks, but I only really like 'em with toffee."
(glooooooooooooooorrrrrrrp)
"Oh, ah, hey, these are pretty good."
"vreeeeeeeeeeeep-oooooop"
"Now, uh, I gotta get me a drink, be back in a sec,,,"
"yarp!"
(glug lug lug)
"That's Urki-Jooz?"
"vreeep"
"Cool."
"varp"
"Now, oh, stang, why did Uncle koot stick that coupling all the way up there? I'll have to go get the ladder,,,"
"vreeee!"
(swooooosh grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrorrrrrrrr)
"I guess I don't really need to, then."
"varp"
"Well, now I got this little thing working, I think I might be able to apply to the Gurnian College of Engineering after all, thanks, bud, you've been helpful."
"Vreeeeeeeeeee-arp"
(rustle rustle rustle sploooog)
"Huh? This is an acceptance letter, for me, from, you, hey, how did you get to be the Dean of the Gurnian College of Engineering?!"
"wheeeeeeeeee darple nucka nucka vooooooooooooooooooooooooorp"

reliant
10 June 2002, 06:10 PM
IMHO, hey, they HAVE rocket pants. R2's may well have run out of fuel or something but they HAVE 'em.

It's funny you mention that... The gaming session after I saw episode II most of the R2 units in my galaxy (and I get to say "my galaxy" cause I'm GM:D) woke up to find that they too had rockets and could fly! 8o


As for getting in and out of X-Wings, anyone have any canon evidence that they can't get in from the underside?[

I checked the "Incredible Cross-Sections" book and found that there is no way that the droid could get in from the bottom. The cross section of the X-Wing clearly shows a bottom to the droid socket, and tons of wiring, tubing, and junk underneath (also the cargo compartment is underneath). The cross section of the Y-Wing didn't have the cargo compartment there, but it did have lots of other stuff that would prevent a droid from coming up from the bottom.

Now you could argue wether or not that book is canon so I also offer the following question (as my answer... :D): If you were the rebellion, would you waste tons of money (and time) with cranes and lifting your R2 units into your fighters when they could just go and do it themselves(I didn't see any cranes at Naboo)? Somehow I doubt the rebellion cares that much for sparing a droid a little bit of work. I guess this also doesn't prove anything either, but if I was a small force that pinched pennies to buy the oldest junk in the galaxy to throw at the Empire, I wouldn't waste any cash on some cranes I really didn't need.

Now I firmly believe that if R2D2 really WANTED to climb up the side of Luke's X-Wing and climb in the top, he would find a way to do it (and he wouldn't need his rocket pants either). And the reason we never saw his rockets in the later movies was that he just didn't need them (and he was too cool to use them). Why bother with rockets when you can just get humans to do everything for you? Besides he was already burdened with saving the rebellion (and presumably the universe) several times over, so why use some flashy rockets when you don't get any credit anyway.

The Admiral
12 June 2002, 05:48 AM
Now you could argue wether or not that book is canon
Well, no, you can't since canon is eleven very specific sources, and the Incredible Cross-sections isn't one of them.

There's plenty of Official evidence that there's no access from below, but the prequels have shown very clearly that GL is quite happy to trash anything in the EU with wild abandon.

That said, the 'floor' of the astromech station is directlky above the cargo bay, which has a door, and we're denied a view of the front section of the socket by the frame at the back of the pilot compartment. There's no actual reason why that floor couldn't open, allowing an astromech to get hauled up into the socket through the cargo door. One could argue that the main reason the astromechs are lowered into the fighters is convinience, not neccesity.

The Y-Wing is slightly more tricky, it'd require a door encompassing various piping valves etc.

Craig Feely
12 June 2002, 07:11 AM
Perhaps the Queen's N-1 starfighters are custom made. I don't know much about the N-1 line of fighter, but perhaps she had them made specifically for the palace to allow for quicker scrambling for air cover in the case of an attack.

But that brings up another point: if she thought it would be a good idea to help protect the palace, then why wouldn't ALL the fighters be similarly equipped??

What do you all think?

The Admiral
12 June 2002, 07:35 AM
i think ALL the N-1s are identical, they all have underside loading. I've not seen any kinds that don't, so,,,

reliant
12 June 2002, 09:53 AM
All the N-1's were built specifically for the Naboo defense fleet anyway, so I would imagine that they were all the same.

Even the one's from Episode II had bottom loading droids, so I would think that they were all the same. Like The Admiral said, since I've never seen any (anywhere) that weren't bottom-loaders, I'm gonna assume that they all are that way.

Craig Feely
12 June 2002, 12:59 PM
Ahhh, now that you mention that it makes better sense. I wasn't even thinking about that.

Guess that goes to show what grapsing for reasoning does to you!

B)