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Jaggard
22 May 2002, 07:51 PM
The sismic charges were too sweet. That's how all space explosions should be. Just a bright flash of an explosion with no sound followed seconds later by a loud tone as the ships sensors catch feedback from the blast. The whole scene with the space battle was intense.

Yoda with his lightsaber, no words could ever do that justice. That was a thing of beauty, I didn't breath through that whole thing. Yoda is a God.

The hundred jedi entering the arena. So many light sabers was awe inspireing.

The speeder chase in the begining, seemed so intense but was just a warm up.

The clones going into battle, I can't help but feel sad at the loss of so many. They may be clones but they were good guys and they were people. Were I a clone they would make me proud to be so. The scenes were amazing.

I saw it yesterday and am still coming down from it.

Gray Area
9 June 2002, 03:24 AM
I'm sorry Jaggard, but I must disagree with you on many of your points. In spite of what we know about space being silent
George gaveit sounds we will never forget, the Whine of tie fighters, the creaks and groans of the turning Star Destroyer.
The sudden silence of the semic charges was a cheap gag I'm afraid nothing more. The chase it'self was a chaotic sensory
overload leaving me well short of involved, I would even say bored. In Empire the chase through the asteroids was exciting,
Han shows what a good pilot flying by the seat of his pants, in an excellent ship can do. This man can fly, we want him to
win. Poor old (I should say middle aged) Ben is lost in frenetic blur of action, showing us none of his talent as a pilot, or his
strength of character.
As for the big Jedi battle in the Arena, unbelievable. SAS and Navy Seals are not used as front line troops to be squandered
like grunts, seems absurd that you would use Jedi in a similar way. Especially with the clone army so close to arriving.

The first episode was a shocker, this latest fiasco does little to reassure me that George has had no idea in how to realise
the fantastic story he set in motion many years ago.

Jedi_Staailis
9 June 2002, 01:04 PM
I have to agree with Jaggard on this one.


The sudden silence of the semic charges was a cheap gag I'm afraid nothing more.

Though Lucas (and most other science fiction movie writers) allow sound in space, delaying the sound as Lucas did here is not a cheap gag. In actuality, he's making it more like combat in an atmosphere, where the light from the blast travels faster than the sound.


Poor old (I should say middle aged) Ben is lost in frenetic blur of action, showing us none of his talent as a pilot, or his
strength of character.

Obi-Wan didn't seem to be too bad of a pilot to me. After all, the TIE fighters weren't armed with missiles. They were just standard, unshielded TIEs flown by line pilots. Jango Fett is a substantially more dangerous foe.


SAS and Navy Seals are not used as front line troops to be squandered

I've only seen the movie once, but it was my impression that the Jedi had no idea they were going to be ambushed by the battle droids.

Gray Area
9 June 2002, 05:20 PM
Jedi_Staails, the point I make about the chase sequence was not wether Obi Wan is a good pilot or not. The point I an making is that the chase it'self was bad. The pace of the action, and the chaotic spray of fire, rocks and missiles was over the top, eclipsing the heart of the issue, a duel between two great foes. The chase in Empire is clean and concise, we are there and along for the ride. Throwing more decoration onto the cake does not make the cake taste any better. Good action comes from a sense of danger for the heroes and admiration for their skills and decision making. The Clones chase had little of these elements, just bigger this and louder that, I'm sorry but the Empire asteroid chase is orders of magnitude better than anthing in the Clones. The theory of "KISS" applies here, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. The chase sequence must be as much of a character itself as those involved in the chase.
If your structure is flawed then finished item will be flawed, no bells and whistles can save it. This applies to everything, writng, drawing, making cars, picking a Base ball team it's always the same.

Reverend Strone
9 June 2002, 07:33 PM
Gotta agree with you on that one Grey. While the charges were cool in my mind, the overall chase was just way too over the top for me. There were simply too many asteroids going everywhere, and Obi Wan's fighter was doing so much frenetic weaving that I couldn't admire him for his piloting skills, I just kept being reminded it was a digtal ship being flicked around. It didn't feel like anyone was pilotting the thing. It just looked like a kid waving around their toy.

Of course, there was plenty of other stuff in Ep 2 to love, but this one was just too silly. I'm afraid I'm there with Grey. Just a little bit more restraint would have made this a killer sequence. More isn't always better.

Just my thoughts.

Jedi_Staailis
9 June 2002, 08:01 PM
The pace of the action, and the chaotic spray of fire, rocks and missiles was over the top, eclipsing the heart of the issue, a duel between two great foes.

An interesting point here. If Lucas had done the scene at a more sedate pace, would it have seemed old fashioned or out of place? I can see a ESB style chase being bashed for having special effects that are behind the times. I'll agree that the style of the battle does clash slightly with the other Star Wars starfighter battles and even perhaps those in TPM. In ANH, I love each and every shot where we see X-Wings executing simple but effective manuevers. It's the kind of stuff I can attempt in X-Wing games, and it seems like it would work too. Even the Naboo fighters display this sense of simple tactics (like strafing, formations, etc.) in their battle against the Trade Federation Battleship.

But different doesn't necessarily mean wrong. If any battle can be reasonably assumed to be chaotic, the battle between Obi-Wan and Fett should be it. Obi-Wan is a Jedi, with their tendency to be reckless and unpredictable. Kenobi is fighting against a skilled, cunning, bounty hunter in a ship that is unknown, and filled with surprise weapons. In a way, this battle does reflect the characters. Han Solo and Imperial commanders tend toward clean conflicts ("Bring 'em on. I prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"), while Obi-Wan and Jango are on the other end of the spectrum. Though Han does show a surprising adeptness at doing the unexpected during the Hoth chase, his tactics are those of a fighter. He comes up with a plan, executes it, and then tries to figure out another to keep carrying him through the conflict. Obi-Wan just jumps in and trusts the Force to show him the way to winning.

Gray Area
9 June 2002, 08:51 PM
I'm sorry but on this I can not agree, it's not about speed, old fashioned style or other wise, it's about interest value and the Clones chase lacked this. There was some beautiful stuff in the film, but on average it was badly concieved. Characters and story were on the weak side and lots and lots of glittsy effects can not fix this. Sensory overload is not enteraining or involving.
As I say there was some gorgeous images on the screen, like the shot during the battle where the clone army is advancing into screen, the background sky is red with dust, punctuated by the blue blaster fire, lovely, straight off the cover of the "Art of". Nice work. But unfortunately these select few pieces of good work can not save the film, sad but true.