PDA

View Full Version : Rebel Stand Speculation



Nova Spice
24 May 2002, 01:56 PM
So, Rebel Stand is due to hit stands in about a week or two and the NJO will take yet another step towards completion and to the highly-anticipated finale. From what we know from Rebel Dream, anyone have any ideas or guesses as to what is going to happen in the next novel?

What will Luke find on his mission?

Will Jacen Solo finally come back into the picture?

Has Jaina fully recovered from her brush with the dark side?

What plans do Wedge and the rest of the galaxy's defenders have in store?

Will the Yuuzhan Vong strike yet another crucial blow to the crippled New Republic?

I know I have a lot of questions...just curious what some of you guys (and gals :D ) think?

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
24 May 2002, 02:08 PM
May the 28 is the exact day of release (my connections at a bookstore in town already has their copies in and one copy ready to be smuggled out for me today).

1) That the Vong are destroying the Coruscant we saw in Episode II.

2) Maybe at the end of Rebel Stand you'll see him, be Vergere must first teach him the lost ways of the Jedi (that will be in Traitor).

3) I thought she accomplished that in Rebel Dream.

4) More misleading tactics for the YV.

5) The exact opposite.

What I can't figure out is which boy in Jaina's "orbit" is she going to pick.

Superdog
24 May 2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by FrobiWanKenobi

What I can't figure out is which boy in Jaina's "orbit" is she going to pick.
I think it was made obvious that that was Jag Fel, who else would it be?

Dan Kyrinov
24 May 2002, 06:11 PM
I think the infiltration of Coruscant will begin a process that will allow the resistance to retake the planet, but not in the book Rebel Stand. Luke was sensing dark side energy, I believe he may find some kind of dark Force-user along the way.

Wedge will be forced to take on Czulkang again, but I think the breakdown between Tsavong and Czulkang will work against the Yuuzhan Vong.

Jaina's darkside issues may be resolved to a point at this point, and I don't think in a military-centric book like Rebel Stand there will be any relapses. I am pretty sure we can bet on Jag Fel as her companion now.

If the Yuuzhan Vong get any major blows, it might be a raid of Borleias.

I think I answered all the questions, though not in order, but it's all speculation. Only 5 days to go!

Rouge8
24 May 2002, 06:58 PM
What do you mean by
destroying the Coruscant from Episode II

So-Var Leet
24 May 2002, 07:18 PM
I believe he means that we will learn that the Vong are destroying Courascant and making it into their own little preversion (as they do with just about every planet they take), and that the Courascant we all know and love from Episode II will be destoryed by the Vong.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
24 May 2002, 08:21 PM
I could not have put it better myself So-Var Leet.

AWingJock
29 May 2002, 07:26 PM
I certainly hope it is Jag that Jaina picks. I am kinda anti-Durron I guess lol.

As far as Couracant goes... Wouldn't it be so cool if the Vong accidentally create a world like Aldaraan? Wouldn't it be rather ironic that such a beautiful world would be recreated from such a metropolice? And after all those years they get their own world? I seriously doubt that will happen, but sheesh the Vong must HATE those buildings. I am surprised they didn't just blow the world up from orbit or something rather than try to terraform it.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
30 May 2002, 02:14 PM
Spoiler
















It is made very clear in RS that Han and Wedge might get to be family (that is if they are survive the YV).

How about Lord Nyax? Thoughts?

Talonne Hauk
30 May 2002, 02:28 PM
Even though Rebel Dream was mainly setup, I thought it was much better than Rebel Stand.
Two reasons;
1) Operation Emperor's Spear. Why in the world is it preferable to destroy the most powerful ship in the fleet and place it's weaponry in the hand of a private operative, simply for the one-time surprise tactic of ramming? Which shouldn't have worked, a dovin basal should have swallowed it up.
2) Lord Nyax. Lucas didn't want Sith involved in the New Jedi Order at all. So Allston artfully circumvents that by saying Lord Nyax is a Dark Jedi. A rose by any other name smells as sweet. Or to put it in cruder fashion, looks like doggy-doo, smells like doggy-doo, tastes like doggy-doo... good thing we didn't step in it. Although this time I think we did.:mad:
I thought Rebel Stand was one of the worst offerings put forth in the NJO series, which is too bad, as Allston shows that he's head and shoulders above the vast majority of writer's in this collaboration with characterization and dialogue. But the plot just stank.

Tramp
31 May 2002, 10:13 AM
A Dark Jedi is not the same thing as a Sith by any means. The Sith are a very specific sect of Dark Side Force users with ancient traditions that go back thousands of years. Dark Jedi are simply Jedi that who have fallen to the Dark Side but still follow the same traditions as there Light Side counterparts. Lord Nyax has never been a Sith, even before he became the abomination he is in Rebel Stand he was always a Dark Jedi not a Sith.

Talonne Hauk
31 May 2002, 11:46 AM
Can you name any circumstance where there is an appreciable difference between Dark Jedi and Sith? Is there a book, comic book, or movie where you could not replace one with the other? A Dark Jedi is simply a convenient label. Where does Roganda Ismaren receive her training? From a Sith. So why does it make sense for her to teach Lord Nyax as a Dark Jedi? To me, it doesn't. But I've been accused of being nit-picky in the past.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
31 May 2002, 04:07 PM
I thought that all in all the book wasn't Allston's greatest work but it was still better then most other's.


1) Operation Emperor's Spear - Wedge needed a surprise for the YV. This was it. By spreading the wealth of the SSDs weapons they increase the overall effectiveness of the fleet. Plus, they destroy a Worldship.
2) Lord Nyax - His mother was an Emperor's Hand not a Sith or even a Dark Jedi. After the Emperor's boosting of her powers ceased when he died she studied under a Jedi Master in hiding named Plett (not a Sith). Having the lightsabers implanted in him was an interesting idea (one that at least some, like me, have wondered about). However, I am glad that he was taken care of in this one novel.
3) The Force Wellspring - What is to become of this? I have thoughts of Vergere taking Jacen there in order to teach him the good old ways of the Jedi from before the Purge.
4) Jaina and Jag - Until the first part of this book I had thought that Jag was just ahead of the competition, now he has been declared the winner.
5) Wedge - I thought he was a dead man the last 20 pages.
6) Wes Jansen - Glad he's back, even if he did hit-on Jaina.

Talonne Hauk
31 May 2002, 11:22 PM
I see your point about Roganda, and it's well received. But the only real reason Lord Nyax was a credible threat was because Luke was on a mission. Eventually, enough Vong would have overwhelmed Nyax. It's not as if he truly had the means or capacity to go elsewhere. I thought he was a digression from the whole New Jedi Order point; that the Yuuzhan Vong were the toughest bad guys out there. So it chafed me to read about him.

Nova Spice
1 June 2002, 06:45 AM
Well I read the entire novel in about four or five hours and I enjoyed the read. I am not going to pass judgment on the decision to create a Dark Jedi for the series, at least not until it is over. I am sure Lord Nyax has some purpose beyond Rebel Stand.
But to me, the coolest part of the whole book, besides the humor, which has been hard to include because of events in NJO, was Wraith Squadron. I thought Kell Tainer, Face, and Elassar were hilarious. Their antics really made the reading more worthwhile. Heck, even R2-D2 made a funny comment to C-3PO, and Han ad Leia had a couple of really good comments. I remember Jag's quite well:

Kyp: "I also don't want to be in the way. In your way. Between you, and you know."
Jag extended his hand. "Colonel Jagged Fel. Glad to meet you."
Kyp: "Shut up you."

That was classic in my mind. :D Also has anyone considered the actual importance of these two novels? Its huge! A new Rebel Alliance has been formed, Wedge managed to buy the rest of the New Republic time to prepare defenses, and Jaina seems to have made a full circle from the dark side. Not to mention whatever becomes of the Lord Nyax situation in Traitor. I bet that Dark Side Monster will have some importance for Jacen Solo. Of course, we have to wait nearly four months now don't we. :(

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
1 June 2002, 07:20 AM
That is one thing that I forgot to say. The Humor was great!!!

Kell had awesome lines like: "Aunt Tahiri, tell me a story."

Also, I thought that the Rancors were an interesting touch. How the Warmaster didn't let them did by their own weapons.

EmprorsHand03
1 June 2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Talonne Hauk
Even though Rebel Dream was mainly setup, I thought it was much better than Rebel Stand.
Two reasons;
1) Operation Emperor's Spear. Why in the world is it preferable to destroy the most powerful ship in the fleet and place it's weaponry in the hand of a private operative, simply for the one-time surprise tactic of ramming? Which shouldn't have worked, a dovin basal should have swallowed it up.
2) Lord Nyax. Lucas didn't want Sith involved in the New Jedi Order at all. So Allston artfully circumvents that by saying Lord Nyax is a Dark Jedi. A rose by any other name smells as sweet. Or to put it in cruder fashion, looks like doggy-doo, smells like doggy-doo, tastes like doggy-doo... good thing we didn't step in it. Although this time I think we did.:mad:
I thought Rebel Stand was one of the worst offerings put forth in the NJO series, which is too bad, as Allston shows that he's head and shoulders above the vast majority of writer's in this collaboration with characterization and dialogue. But the plot just stank.

I think that you're being overly critical of this book, Talonne if you ask me there is no worst book in the NJO series, and if there is it would most certainly be Balance Point.
1) You think that a worldship that is as large as a SSD could focus just one dovin basal, or all of its dovin basals on the Lusankya, and swallow the whole thing up without getting pounded by the other ships in the fleet. Besides, I haven't heard of a tactic where any Yuuzhan Vong ship has used its dovin basals to swallow up another ship.
2) You do have a point when you said what's the difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi, personally I don't see it either. However, Lord Nyax is a reference to a children's story that had some background in the Rebellion era with Darth Vader. Lord Nyax, isn't really Lord Nyax either, he's Irek Ismaren, he just doesn't know he's Irek Ismaren.:raised:

In my opinion Rebel Stand, is a good finale to the events seen in Rebel Dream, though it doesn't rank with my personal favorite, Star by Star.

wolverine
1 June 2002, 11:38 AM
<<1) You think that a worldship that is as large as a SSD could focus just one dovin basal, or all of its dovin basals on the Lusankya, and swallow the whole thing up without getting pounded by the other ships in the fleet. Besides, I haven't heard of a tactic where any Yuuzhan Vong ship has used its dovin basals to swallow up another ship. >>

Actually there have been many mentions of this tactic used in several books. Most of them were fighter/skip fights, where a skip used its DB to such a republic fighter into nothing ness, but there was one large ship which used the same tactic against a freighter i doo believe...

Talonne Hauk
1 June 2002, 10:11 PM
Well, in our science of the here and now, no one has been able to effectively measure the gravitational pull of a black hole, or singularity, and no one has been able to measure theur size, either. Our best guesses are just guesses. Now before I get crucified for introducing hard science into space fantasy, let me remind everyone that I didn't make the premise up myself. The editors chose to make this stuff up, and for the most part, it works well. So my thought is one dovin basal, focussed on one small point, say, the point of a spear , could have screwed up that plan completely. To me, it doesn't justify putting the weapons in the hands of Booster Terrik. He seems a good guy, but he looks at the bottom line, right?
I will say that my criticism was a bit harsh. But Allston shows so much promise with his dialogue and characterization, why doesn't he get help with the plot? Can you imagine a collaborative effort between Allston and Stackpole? We'd have the Star Wars novel to end all Star Wars novels!

EmprorsHand03
2 June 2002, 02:40 PM
Actually there have been many mentions of this tactic used in several books. Most of them were fighter/skip fights, where a skip used its DB to such a republic fighter into nothing ness, but there was one large ship which used the same tactic against a freighter i doo believe...

OK, I think i do remember reading about that tactic being used in the Dark Tide duology. However, we are talking about on a much larger scale with a ship that is roughly the same size, which would leave it very vulnerable.


Well, in our science of the here and now, no one has been able to effectively measure the gravitational pull of a black hole, or singularity, and no one has been able to measure theur size, either. Our best guesses are just guesses. Now before I get crucified for introducing hard science into space fantasy, let me remind everyone that I didn't make the premise up myself. The editors chose to make this stuff up, and for the most part, it works well. So my thought is one dovin basal, focussed on one small point, say, the point of a spear , could have screwed up that plan completely. To me, it doesn't justify putting the weapons in the hands of Booster Terrik. He seems a good guy, but he looks at the bottom line, right?

I'm going to defend Booster Terrik cause if anyone needed it, it would be him. Booster is the same type of hero as Talon Karrde, those are the type of people that Han Solo might have become if he didn't have Leia or worse. Booster deep down is a good guy, albeit with a rough exterior. After Booster's trip to Kessel, everyone said that he was a changed man and he was he retired. But how can anyone really retire. To this point I would say that the weapons are in good hands after all Booster has done a lot for the galaxy, such as house the Yavin Jedi students, saved the New Republic's behind on more than one occasion (got rid of Isard [twice]), participated in the Yaga Minor information raid, participated at Borleias).

Nazgul
3 June 2002, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Talonne Hauk
Well, in our science of the here and now, no one has been able to effectively measure the gravitational pull of a black hole, or singularity, and no one has been able to measure their size, either.

Using the Theory of General Relativity you can calculate the gravitational forces. Except at the singularity, but that's a moot point since it has a volume of zero (but you could use the Grand Unified Theory for that, when its developed, ;)).

The classical size is (or the Schwartzchild radius): Rs = 2GM/c^2 (where G is the gravitational constant, M is the mass of the the sigularity, and c is the speed of light). Nothing too special or complicated. But this is only a non-spinning, non-charged black hole. The equations are a little different for the other types.

Mjolner
3 June 2002, 08:18 AM
Wow Nazgul, could you try a little bit harder to show us what a science buff you are?

*slaps forehead*

*sighs*

Now, to get back to the topic of the thread.

The whole Lord Nyax thing felt like it was just a bit "thrown in" to Rebel Stand. It felt like they wanted some Dark Side persona there, and that was the best they could do since the Sith seems to be a no-no.

By the way, where has the rumor come from that Lucas has said no to having Sith in the NJO? Or is it a set fact? Is there any place you can read about it, etc?

As for the Emperor's Spear thing. Maybe the dovin basals would have been over loaded if they tried to swallow something that big? Or, maybe they were busy elsewhere? Or maybe they were put out of comission by the interdictor that drop in. The Mon Mothma, I think it was.

Now, someone mentioned the title "Traitor". I bet either Jacen will become the Yuuzhan Vong / Jedi that Tahiri was meant to be, or some major Yuuzhan Vong character will turn and support the reamains of the New Republic. I lean strongly towards thinking it's Jacen turning traitor though.Then him and Jaina face off, and one of them is killed....the Yuuzhan Vong get their "twin sacrifice" after all.

Anyway, that's my rant about it.

Tramp
3 June 2002, 09:06 AM
By the way, where has the rumor come from that Lucas has said no to having Sith in the NJO? Or is it a set fact? Is there any place you can read about it, etc?

Early on in the development of the NJO, Del- Rey wanted to use Sith as the main villains. George Lucas put the ax to that and said that ROTJ marked the end of the SITH threat for ever. Instead, they came up with the Idea of beings totally devoid of the Force. Lucas loved the Idea and gave the go ahead. These became the Yuuzhan Vong. This was mentioned in a few articles on both the official site and in SW Insider.

EmprorsHand03
3 June 2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Mjolner
Now, someone mentioned the title "Traitor". I bet either Jacen will become the Yuuzhan Vong / Jedi that Tahiri was meant to be, or some major Yuuzhan Vong character will turn and support the reamains of the New Republic. I lean strongly towards thinking it's Jacen turning traitor though.Then him and Jaina face off, and one of them is killed....the Yuuzhan Vong get their "twin sacrifice" after all.

Anyway, that's my rant about it. [/B]

Highly unlikely!

I believe that it has been said that Jacen returns to the New Republic with a new view of the Force, as a gift from Vergere, in the preview of Destiny's Way.

I think the title is misleading and we'll have to actually wait to see what happens later.

Also, quoting The Wizard of Oz, "Ding, dong, the witch is dead, the wicked witch, the wicked witch!" Of course, I am referring to the traitor to beat all traitors, Viqi Shesh. I was overjoyed that she died in this novel. I just have one more wish get rid of that pesky Nom Anor, and my joy will continue.

Talonne Hauk
4 June 2002, 12:52 PM
This is straight from Allston's FAQ list. I just wish he had written it into the novel a little better.

When the Lusankya Ran Into the Worldship, Why Didn't Czulkang Lah Position Voids In Front of the SSD?
Interference from Danni Quee's jamming devices was keeping the worldship's yammosk from coordinating the actions of its dovin basals, causing them to fall back on their "programming" (whatever sort of genetic instructions and training the Yuuzhan Vong use for those creatures). The dovin basals' instincts put fast-moving, high-energy damage like lasers, missiles, and torpedoes at the top of their threat index, relegating slow-moving masses to a secondary threat condition. There was plenty of incoming damage coming into the planet's surface from New Republic ships to keep the voids busy. In short, the dovin basals were cut off from their coordinator, and not smart enough to interpret the threat that the Lusankya represented when they were being overwhelmed by attacks that they believed to be more important.

It addresses the major flaw in the plot for me, and I begrudgingly withdraw the bulk of my criticism.

Nova Spice
4 June 2002, 07:23 PM
Did you visit theforce.net for that FAQ update Frobi? I saw where it was in their headlines, but I was cut short and couldn't look into it. And wouldn't you know it I can't seem to pull up the site.....anything else in Allston's page that was useful? :?

wolverine
5 June 2002, 03:11 AM
i toss in my chiming for the Horrayssssss, but would Viesh get the darwinism award for removing herself vfrom the gene pool.

Nazgul
5 June 2002, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by Mjolner
Wow Nazgul, could you try a little bit harder to show us what a science buff you are?

If you want I could, j/k :D

I came to pretty much one conculsion. If there is anyone in that universe who deserves godly status it has to be R2. Just his little comments to C3P0 an on the datapad were pretty amuzing.

As for the Emperor's Spear. I didn't like the idea, but if it works for them it works for them. Altough with all of the humor at the end, it just took forever for it to strike. A couple of times I thought I was reading a Monty Python novel which the Knight running across the field to the Castle.


Originally posted by wolverine
i toss in my chiming for the Horrayssssss, but would Viesh get the darwinism award for removing herself vfrom the gene pool.

I'd say yes. But it would be one of the runers up awards, it wasn't very creative. I'm just happy she's finally gone. And what's up with all of the Kauti' diplomates. Are they all this stupid?

Talonne Hauk
5 June 2002, 07:08 AM
I know there are plenty of clones lurking on these forum pages, but as far as I know, I am not a clone of the great Frobi Wan Kenobi. ;)
Here is the link to Aaron Allston's page; http://www.aaronallston.com/faqswars.html
He updates from quite a few of his novels. It's pretty nice to see an author do that.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
5 June 2002, 08:35 AM
My clones are very impressive but, only only ones I have are still under my control. Going to classes for me, impersonatting me at work, having lunch with my grandparents - all while I, the real one, sit at my desk and surf the net.

But I have checked that site before. That's where I got the "Kyp thinks he is" answer for another thread.