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Nova Spice
5 June 2002, 07:17 AM
I've always wondered about COMPNOR (Committeee for the Preservation of the New Order) and its uses. It seems to me that COMPNOR, the ISB (Imperial Security Bureau), and Imperial Intelligence could all have been combined together to create one powerful Intelligence agency...I mean the Empire is about dictatorships, why would Palpatine want to make three branches and have them compete against one another? I mean we have the FBI and the CIA, but after all, we're a democracy not a dictatorous oligarchy. Anyone ever given any thought to these organizations? Especially COMPNOR? Why the heck is it even needed? :?

Talonne Hauk
5 June 2002, 07:23 AM
COMPNOR was more of a rah-rah rally group than a serious intelligence network. That said, it still kept tabs on "disloyal" citizens. As for Palpatine, it suited his purposes to have three relatively weak intelligence sources at his disposal rather than one almighty intelligence network with one very powerful person in charge of it. Palpatine wanted no one challenging his power, and he was happy to keep those in charge scrabbling for his favor by competing with the others.

Chris Curtis
5 June 2002, 09:46 AM
Our campaign is set in a fairly isolated sector still controlled by the Empire. My GM has changed several things regarding Imperial organization, including both ISB and COMPNOR.

You can find info here on the Servais Sector ISB (http://starwars-rpg.net/servais/empire/isb.shtml). The sector Moff changed quite a bit regarding how the organization operates and how public it is.

COMPNOR (http://starwars-rpg.net/servais/people/templates/template_cf-assault_trooper.shtml) has also been reorganized within our sector. Specifically, CompForce troops are now under the authority of the ISB as supplemental troops and are better trained and equipped (if not necessarily more effective) than their standard counterparts.

Hopefully those links should give you some ideas.

Nova Spice
5 June 2002, 03:30 PM
Thanks Chris, I appreciate the links and the info! Looks like a great campaign! And to be perfectly honest with you...I had no idea that COMPNOR employed actual troopers.....that is something interesting :D
So basically, from what I can divulge from you two, COMPNOR is more of a locally-run and based organization that uses common citizens to its advantage? Seems like it may have its uses after all.....I wonder why Imperial Intelligence hates it so?

Reezen
5 June 2002, 03:42 PM
Imperial Intelligence agents would dislike COMPNOR simply because they're competition - for resources and for glory. II can't be everywhere, and the way COMPNOR is organized it can afford to be. However, if a situation escalates, I'd imagine II would suddenly become interested and send a representative to coordinate with the local COMPNOR office.

Also, COMPNOR offers another avenue to support the Empire (by simply registering the loyalists) and ensure the peace and safety of the Empire without enlisting in the military or joining Intelligence.

I would imagine there would be systems where the II rep and COMPNOR would work closely together, others where they could even be the same person, and finally systems where they are at odds with each other.

darthblitzkrieg
6 June 2002, 08:04 AM
There seems to be a little confusion.

According to WEG's Imperial Sourcebook, COMPNOR is more of a socio-political organization than a intelligence organization. Palpatine used it to help further his agenda, while molding it into what he wanted it to be. There are similarities between COMPNOR and the Nazi political party's organization

COMPNOR is broken into many branches. I'm at work so I'm going by memory here, but there were things like the youth social club section (SAGEducation ), a sports section (SAGRec), an arts section, etc.
There was also a military branch: COMPForce (AKA COMPFarse),
ISB - the "politically reliable" intel branch, a commo branch (Plexus?)

The rivalry between II and ISB is twofold. They are competing Intel organizations (like the US's CIA & DIA, USSR's KGB & GRU).
The fact that the ISB is also the political intel organization conflicts with II's military intel status. II was formed from three separate Old Republic intel organizations and is considered the military intelligence organization.

And yes Palpatine likes having them separate. They can't hold as much power this way and have to compete to provide accurate information.

Bottom line is COMPNOR is the political party, similar to the Nazi, Communist, Republican, or Democrat parties.
ISB is the political intelligence/secret police, similar to the KGB or Gestapo. As the civilian intelligence organization, the CIA would be the US's closest equivalent.
II is the Imperial Military Intelligence organization, similar to the GRU or DIA.

The Admiral
10 June 2002, 05:15 PM
I think Blitzkrieg almost nailed it. The main essential difference between ISb and the Ubiqtorate is that the ISB are a politcial body, their agents, their methodology,m their very ethos is to serve the political ends of the New Order. The Ubiqtorate (Imperial Intelligence) is simply very very good at it's job.

Given a scenario, an ISB agent and a Ubiqtorate agent are sent to observe an Imperial military officer suspected of possibly being a traitor.
The ISB agent would look to see if the officer believes in the New Order.
The Ubiqtotrate agent would look to see if the officer was actually a danger to the Government.

ISB would choose to shoot an officer for their political beliefs.

Ubiqtorate don't give two hoots about their political beliefs just as long as they do what they're told and are good at doing it.

Political Police versus professional Intelligence Agency.



The reason Bob keeps both is simple, they do very different jobs. Ostensibly, they actually have the same mandate, but they do so from such diametrically opposed philosophy that their achievements are wildly different, and Bob can weigh their results based on those philosophies far better than he could with just one agency.


As to why ComPNOr is needed; it's a propoganda tool. Palpatine no more believes in it that Mon Mothma, but it serves a need; distraction and control. ComPNOr serves as a dumping ground for anyone who is easilly attracted to political games and intrigugue, whilst they are busy stabbing each other in the back, they leave him alone to do exaclty what he wants to do.

Essentially, it comes down to this. Bob doesn't give a damn what people think, or what they say, he doesn't care what aliens do what, whether they're free or not, he couldn't care less what people are really thinking. He only cares about three things;

1: Staying alive.
2: Ruling the known universe.
3: Being the corporeal personification of evil at the known universe's heart.

ComPNOr is a distraction, Ubiqtorate is a tool.

Nova Spice
10 June 2002, 05:25 PM
Now that explains things! Thanks Admiral for the know-how knowledge! I always perceived COMPNOR as an Intelligence agency similar to the ISB. darthblitzkrieg helped clarify my initial confusion as to why in the world Palpatine (or Bob as you call him :D ) would want two rival Intelligence Bureaus! Now I understand that COMPNOR is more of a civilian-based allegiance group. I suppose they are like members of let's say, the communist party, who make sure "everyone" is a communist. Thanks alot everyone! B)

FlipDog 2000
11 June 2002, 08:30 AM
Don't forget about CorSec (Corellian Security Agency). Some of those members would have gladly turned over valuable info to the Empire at the drop of a hat.

Pel
7 July 2002, 10:04 PM
Yeah, but they were just mercenary collaborating dogs who betrayed the spirit and liberty at the heart of Corellia and its people. ;)

Tem_Starrunner
11 July 2002, 10:33 AM
Pel, Flipdog CorSec was the Corellian systems police force not an intelligence group. And as I recall Corran Horn always mentioning ISB was poking there noise into CorSec business and tighting a noose of control around them.

CorSec wasn't about intelligence is was about policing.