View Full Version : Why didn't Yoda and Obi-Wan get Luke involved?

So-Var Leet
6 June 2002, 08:34 AM
If Yoda and Obi-Wan were so powerful in the ways of the Force, couldn't they have taken on the Emporer and Vader themselves? Or why couldn't they have helped Luke accomplish this goal?

Why did they train a hotheaded, impulsive little brat and send him off, inexperianced, to destroy two of the most powerful beings in the known universe?

6 June 2002, 09:45 AM
Possible SPOILERS. You've been warned even though it's just a theory.

Personally I think it is because there is a lot we haven't seen yet.

Obi-Wan was a skilled Jedi Knight but I don't think he would have been able to stand up against the most powerful darksider (Emperor) and the "Vergence in the Force" (Vader) even with Yoda's assistance. Obi-Wan was experienced but I think that we will see that during the Clone Wars he was unable to improve his Jedi abilities due to his burdens as a General. He may have become a Jedi Master had he the time and dedication but I think that he was still too inexperinced to handle that fight.

As far as Yoda. I think he may have Farsighted ahead and saw that Vader's son would be the pivotal point by which to defeat the Emperor and Vader. Perhaps the prophesy of the "Balance of the Force" was not intended for Anakin. Maybe it was Luke, the son of the "vergence", who was intended to save the galaxy from the darkside and thereby bring balance to the force by bringing Vader (the vergence) back from the dark into the light.

And finally, I think that the reason why they both did not assist him to fight Vader and the Emperor was that they wanted to remain in the shadows. If Luke died or fell to the darkside then they would be destroyed as well. Just like Yoda said, "There is another". (aka Leia) and if Luke died then Yoda may have seeked her out to train her as a last resort.

Aaron B'Aviv
6 June 2002, 11:17 AM
You're not the first to ask this question. The question is raised in the Black Fleet Crisis series, by Luke. His decision is that if you become too powerful in the Force, you're incapable of taking decisive, headstrong action. It had to be a young'un without experience in the ways of the Force who took on Vader and the Emperor. I think that the story aimed to prove Luke wrong, but it is an interesting theory.

So-Var Leet
6 June 2002, 01:49 PM
His decision is that if you become too powerful in the Force, you're incapable of taking decisive, headstrong action.

Well, we see that theory completely destroyed in Episode Two with the fight between Yoda and Dooku. Not to mention all of Yoda's descisions during the actual battle, he seemed to be acting just fine during those times.

Talonne Hauk
6 June 2002, 02:58 PM
Because, as my friends like to say, "It's in the script.":D
Seriously, though, I think it's because Obi-Wan is not as powerful as he's being made out to be. He would have been severely overwhelmed going up against Vader and the Emperor. But I think the answer to that question will be revealed more fully in Episode III. Also, I don't think it was ever Obi-Wan's or Yoda's intention for Luke to face Darth Vader and the Emperor while they were together. But that's just my own suspicion.

FlipDog 2000
7 June 2002, 03:31 PM
Manly because of exactly what Obi told Luke in ROTJ...

The Emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin was to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him and his followers.

7 June 2002, 04:06 PM
Quite simply, because they knew they would lose. The Emperor is powerful. Just look at Episode II. Dooku puts up a good fight against Yoda, and he's the apprentice to Palpatine, who puts many more years into learning the Force. In the same time, Yoda is growing older and his combat prowess is diminishing. Add Vader to the equation. Anakin/Vader has an incredible innate talent for the Force. The two of them would have demolished Yoda and Obi-Wan, even as powerful as they were.

In a straight fight, Luke would have no better chance than Yoda and Obi-Wan. However, Luke has the same talent Anakin had, and that makes him valuable to the Emperor. Instead of just taking him out, the Emperor gets greedy. Luke's advantage of surprise, along with the redemption of Anakin and Luke's natural talent for the Force turn out to be just enough. Yoda and Obi-Wan take an incredible gamble, but it's their "only hope."

13 June 2002, 08:27 AM
I do think they never intended Luke to face Vader and the Emperor together. There is something else...both Yoda and Ben tell Luke in ROTJ that he must face Vader...not the Emperor. Yeah there's Yoda's "Do not underestimate the Emperor", but most of the focus is on Vader. It makes me wonder...like when (in ANH) Ben glances over at Luke during his duel with Vader, smiles oddly, then allows himself to be cut down.

Perhaps Yoda and Ben secretly knew that Luke would draw his father back to the Light. But then there's Ben's "He's more machine now than man..." statement in ROTJ. Hmm...

13 June 2002, 08:45 AM
I think that the reason Yoda and Obi-wan did not work with Luke to destroy vader and the emperor, besides from the obvious fact that Ben was dead before Luke ever met the emperor or could fight well with a saber, and that yoda was dying of old age already, is that only Luke stood a chance, and NOT because of his power.
1)The emperor and vader together could probably slaughter obi-wan and yoda. they did it with many other jedi. The emperor was insanely powerful, and vader, tho maybe not as strong yet, was also exceedingly skilled.
2)Luke had a chance with vader; he could tap into vader on a personal level; he was vader's son. I don't think Vader wanted to kill Luke in RoTJ; that made a big difference.
3)With Luke in the fight, the Emperor wasn't going to step in. He wanted to turn Luke, not kill him; and if vader was stronger, he would rather have vader. So he did not join the fight until after luke had beaten vader and refused to turn.

That's my humble opinion.

13 June 2002, 11:24 AM
I think the main thing would be that if they run off and die, the galaxy is entirely screwed. Whereas if Luke gets himself killed, they can train someone else.

13 June 2002, 11:25 AM
This is my theory: if Yoda or Obi-Wan han pranced onto to Couracant or the Death Star to take on Darth and Palpatine, they would have been cut down. The emperor needed Luke alive. He did not need Obi-Wan or Yoda alive. He could have just ordered his legions of stormtroopers to cut them down. Those two Jedi are powerful, but But they couldn't handle a couple hundred storm tropers (at least not all at once), no one could. But, because Palpatine needed Luke intact so he could "convert" him, he didn't have him cut down by his troops because you can't convert a corpse. I think maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan could have defeated the emperor and Darth Vader, they just would have gotten cut down before they were able to confront either one of them.

Davpar Ehlmad
13 June 2002, 01:35 PM
I think Luke had to do it, because he was something of a wild card in the equation. The Emperor seems so capable of telling the future, except when Luke and Vader were interacting. Suddenly, Palpatine's all like "really, I didn't know that?". He would have seen Obi-Wan or Yoda coming from a mile away, but Luke - he's a random element.

FlipDog 2000
14 June 2002, 04:54 PM
Yeah, but I don't think Luke was such a "random" element...its still insinuated that the Emperor knew about him.

Nova Spice
14 June 2002, 05:14 PM
Of course the Emperor knew of him. How soon we forget the transmission in The Empire Strikes Back.

Vader: "What is thy bidding my Master?"
Palpatine:"There is a great disturbance in the Force."

Palpatine actually mentions Luke by name in this transmission, calling him "young Skywalker" and saying "he could destroy us". There is more to this than we know right now. Episode III is the crucial link to the ENTIRE story. It is the final bridge to all of our questions and until it comes out, all we can do is speculate. :D
I'm assuming the reason Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't train Luke together and then take on Vader and the Emperor with him by their side was:

1. Perhaps Obi-Wan had no idea where Yoda was until after he had died, when he became one with the Force.
2. Leia could still possibly be trained if they failed with Luke, and Lord knows that Obi-Wan doesn't exactly have an exemplary record with training apprentices.....
3. Obi-Wan knew he was no match for Anakin and not knowing exactly where Yoda had disappeared to, he felt it'd be a mistake to be cut down when he possibly could be the only one to train Luke (and Leia if all else failed).