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Talonne Hauk
21 June 2002, 06:49 AM
I have a situation where I can bring a new player into my group. He's very experienced, not only with Star Wars, but with a variety of other roleplaying systems. I'm running a d20 campaign, and I'm bringing him in one level below my other players. One of my original players is having a real problem with this. He believes it isn't fair to start the new guy out so high, that he should work his way up from first just like the rest of the group. I've told him that this would be a problem, as the campaign has gotten more potentially lethal now that we're playing at a higher level, and either my new players character would bite the dust right quick, or I'd have to water the adventure down so his character could handle it. So I'm installing the new player as I've planned.
My problem is this; my old player is a definite munchkin. And he's a longtime friend, as are the rest of the group. But the rest of the group can and will roleplay, and do it well. So if it came down to it, as a GM, I don't have a problem with this particular player walking away from the game. As a friend, it would be bothersome. How do you suggest I smooth out the ruffled feathers?

reliant
21 June 2002, 07:14 AM
How high in level are the existing characters? If they are really high up, maybe bring the new guy in at half their level. That way you give him a fighting chance (though not a huge one) and still appease the whiners.

Personally I agree with you bringing him in only a level below them. It totally wouldn't be fair to your new player to bring in at first level when everyone else is much higher. He'd just end up going through characters like water (which would suck)...

As for the friend/gamer thing, if he's that good of a friend you should be able to explain to him why you did what you did, and he should understand. If all else fails, just give him the old "I'm the GM and I say so" reasoning...:D

Or if he REALLY complains about it, kill his character so he starts out at first level again. See if he whines about it THEN...;)

Jedi_Staailis
21 June 2002, 07:18 AM
Maybe you can speak to the new player and get him to play a character that has more emphasis on roleplay over any sort of combat prowess. If the old player sees that this new character isn't very "powerful" then he might not have so much of an issue. If you and your player are up to it, you could also make this character several levels lower than the other heroes, in a position where the character needs to be defended by more powerful PCs. While this can be frustrating for some players, others will enjoy the roleplaying challenge.

Another option would be to have the new character be amnesic. So-Var Leet presented the idea in this thread (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?threadid=7958). That way, you can hide the stats entirely, and be justified in doing so.

Nova Spice
21 June 2002, 07:34 AM
Well, Talonne, I don't know if you remember my thread on my troublesome PC, which basically turned into a "I'm Right, You're Wrong" between the two of us, but if you do, you know that I also struggle with PCs that are very uncooperative.

A few things that I learned from some of the fellow Holonetters was that perhaps you and he should just sit down, the two of you, and explain why you decided to do what you are doing and how, if you didn't do it, the new player wouldn't have any fun and it would only be bad for the game. Find out what the other players think? Do they mind that he is starting out a level lower than everyone else? If they do not mind, tell your worrisome PC that the others support you and that it isn't really that big a deal to get so upset over.
And you said he was munchkin (tell me about it brother)? Explain to him that this new player is a great roleplayer and will only enhance the groups experience. If he is still causing you grief after you tell him these thngs, I'd just use the "I'm the GM, argument over" phrase. If it escalates from there, you know where to find me. :p

Ravager_of_worlds
21 June 2002, 10:11 AM
another possibility is to appeal to his munchkin sensibilities... explain how the experience is doled out-

ie, the average group level. if you have 4 players who are 8th level and add the fifth at 1st level... the average group level for experience determination is now 6.6 (or 7th) then you can tell him that the new guy will be sucking experience from him... but if the new guy was started at 7th level... then the average level would be 8th for experience determination (if you use the XP determinates in the book that is)

just a thought

BrianDavion
21 June 2002, 02:39 PM
yup. that works. fact is this guy is whining ebcause he fears that his char will be less cool and powerful somehow if he has to share it.. ignore him. (frankly if this whiner is something of a munchkin WTF wants him anyway?)

Talonne Hauk
21 June 2002, 10:05 PM
Thanks all. I've talked to him, basically using all the above arguments. He wouldn't budge, except when I told him the other players were behind me. He didn't like it, but he dropped it, and things are all right. He's not stupid, so I suspect he'll see that in the long run, I was right.

MrKenpoJr
21 June 2002, 10:15 PM
Or if he REALLY complains about it, kill his character so he starts out at first level again. See if he whines about it THEN...

I'd've gone with this option, too. Then you could just give him that innocent, wide-eyed look, and say "but it wouldn't be fair to bring you in that high, would it?" He'd probably think it was fair then...

QWERTY
1 July 2002, 05:34 AM
I've got to agree with bringing the player in one level lower. But i have had this argument with the one grpups Pc when he was running a first edition D and D game.

Too low level charcters bit of a story but bare with me
When we first started the campaighn me and a friend joined after a few weeks another of my friends joined a level lower than us. It was pretty obivious that he and his pet player wrer never going to letb any of the others Gm. so after about 6 months the group broke and started at a friends house him and pet player gone.

About a year later he joined our new group and played marvel super heros. eventual he became the Dm again but now we had new players 3 to be exact and he was continuing his old campaighn so theres me a 8 lev wizrd, and my 2 friends are 8th levelish figters a halfing whos 5th level and the 3 newbys to his campaighn are all 1st level well we got in an encounter and it was a dissater all the experianced playes suvived (me and my 2 friends) the halfling was left dieing, one newby was a a burn mark on the floor, another was eaten by gargoyles (there was over 40 of them) and the last one jumped of a cliff to get away fromthe baddies and died because he didnt have enough hp left to survive the fall. All in all it was a total disaster the 3 newbys to his campaighn went beserk because what he sent at us. And i had a word with him about the fatality rate in his campaighn the 3 people from the first campaigh have never died but everyone else has died at least once and one player has died 7 times.

But since geting the D20 system hes seems to of learned from me and the other players about adventure control. And is less fatal but still insists on entering new pcs as first level


Qwerty
Thats my piece and opioion i dont mean to offend anyone

Zyborg22
2 July 2002, 04:03 PM
I agree that you should put in the new character a level lower than the other players so the adventure will still be a challenge, but I have a question. What's a munchkin :? ?

BrianDavion
2 July 2002, 04:41 PM
starting new players at first level is no goood. heck I often start my campaigns off at a Higher level (just started a new one, people are starting OFF at 6th level) does this mean that they "earn" things a bit less.. I suppose so however it means I can toss em at more difficult situations etc (which keeps ME intrested.. 3 stormtroopers is sort of a dull challange) and it gives em diffrent things to work for. becoming a jedi knight is a very near goal for my players.. they are working hard at it and really it seems to be rather sastifying