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Danan Valos
25 June 2002, 08:38 AM
There are a few interesting discrepancies in the Star Wars saga.

One thing I found that contradicts itself is the story of C-3PO. In the book, The Essential Guide to Droids, it says that the 3PO series was produced by Cybot Galactica for over a century and has recently introduced the C-line of the series.

First of all, if Anakin Skywalker made C-3PO, how did Cybot Galactica make C-3PO? And if Anakin did make the droid, why did he name him C-3PO? Wuldn't he have given him a name like 'Bob' or something?

This sounds like a classic error. It doesn't make any sense at all, unless one possibily is considered. Maybe Cybot Galactica was working on the C-line of the 3PO series and Anakin got his hands on a blueprint. Then he would have bought all the necessary parts for the droid and made it. But with a slave's salary (next to nil), how did he get all those parts for a droid?

But this theory is proven false when matched with the story contained in the book C-3PO: Tales of the Golden Droid. In this book it contains C-3PO's life story from Episode I through Episode VI. In this story it says Anakin made the droid just through his ingenuity and curiosity of protocol droid anatomy.

Then there is the question of how C-3PO got his (armor) plating. If Anakin made the droid from scratch, he would have no armor to fit him with, as in Episode I. But in Episode II the droid had perfect-fitting plating all over his body. If Anakin truly made C-3PO, no plating would exist, thus it must be made from scratch.

Anybody who thinks they have an answer to this startling dilemma, please reply. Thanks in advance!

-Danan Valos

Ravager_of_worlds
25 June 2002, 08:53 AM
having not read the book... i will still hazard a suggestion. I'm brave or stupid. probably both.

you know those old cars that were made in yester year? I can order new body panels, after market equipment, etc. for a 1970 Charger if i really wanted to. I'd pay a pretty penny, but i could resurrect the General Lee if i wanted to.

If Cybot Galactica had the 3P0 series for over a century... and i was a tinkering little boy with access to a junk shop... and i filched parts every once in a while while Watto wasn't looking... I would go for the 3P0 brand too! Especially if they were such a great line in the first place, i'd want to start droid crafting with someone i know i could find replacement parts and already had an established platform (like a motherboard and processor i could trust for 'trouble shooting')

the 'armor' could easily be explained as belonging to different body chasses of droids. when you find a better preserved body shell, slap that one on and get rid of the primered one! :)

then again, we can explain anything with rationalization.

Dashdar
25 June 2002, 08:55 AM
Could it be that the C line of protocol droids was already out?

Watto did have alot of junk. Could Anakin have gotten his hands on parts of damaged droids and make 3PO?

Naming the droid 3PO does not seem odd. Not everybody used names for droids. 4-LOM, IG-88, R2, IT-0. Some people may just prefer using the droids model number as a nickname.

As for armor, Maybe teh Lars family bought it for him? Or maybe he scrounged for it him self. He was a bit concerned about being naked.

But if you still have questions I think that whatever the movies says overrides anything that was in a book. The Essential Guide to Droids came out before E1 so, that imformation would have been unknown to all but our good friend Geroge.

just my thoughts.

Rogue Janson
25 June 2002, 09:35 AM
Using the droid's model number as a name is slightly odd, but I suppose it's not incredibly unusual. Most other examples of droids have names that distinguish them from others of their line - eg. astromech nicknames like whistler and mynock. I'm not sure about 4-LOM but IG-88 is known as IG-88 because there's only one of him so everyone knows who he is (well, actually there are 4, IG-88s A to D, but not many people know that and the droids are happy to keep it that way).
I just tend to see it as a quirk of the films that the main droid characters are known by their model designation. Perhaps Anakin had a really poor imagination.

MrKenpoJr
25 June 2002, 09:54 AM
Perhaps Anakin had a really poor imagination
Yeah, but what about R2-D2 (or, as he's affectionately known in print, Artoo)? Everyone and their brother called the little tin can that. If Anakin had no imagination, nobody else seemed to, either.

But then again, look at all the droids in the movies. How many of 'em had 'names', as we know them? EV-9D9? Probably affectionately known as EVE, but that's just a derivative of 'her' alpha-numeric designation.

IG-88 is known as IG-88 because there's only one of him so everyone knows who he is (well, actually there are 4, IG-88s A to D
IG-88 is called IG-88 'cause he was a Holowan Laboratories IG-88 Assassin droid. That's not a nickname, that's his designation.

reliant
25 June 2002, 10:21 AM
Since Anakin worked at Watto's droid and junk shop, I always just assumed that he built 3PO out of scavanged junk. I don't really think he invented him I just think he assembled him out of already existing protocol droid parts.

And as for his "skin" or "armor" I figure that the crappy silver stuff was all that Shmi could afford. We know from the other movies that the 3PO line of droids comes in all shapes and colors so it stands to reason that she could have bought some crappy stuff off of a dead protocol droid, or scavanged up that stuff from junk shops and parts places.

I liked the car analogy. Anakin building 3PO was like someone rebuilding a classic car. First you collect the parts, then assemble them, and painting and detailing is last. Anakin didn't create/invent 3PO he just built him from standard parts that he stole from Watto's shop. In the later movies (or after Anakin has some time/cash) 3PO probably gets his shiny skin that we all know and love...

leighangelj
25 June 2002, 12:08 PM
in the episode II novelization it states that Shmi was responsible for the chrome plating we see him with in the movie however it was not a perfect fit. I don't remember where it says she got the stuff (if it does). Also, this is not the only discrepancy in the Star Wars universe. There are many and not all are necessarily from movie to books. For example, i don't remember it ever being mentioned (that doesn't mean it wasn't, i just don't remember it) in any of the NJO books that Tenel Ka has only one arm yet in Shards of Alderaan from the Young Jedi knights series which happens before the NJO series it says she got her left arm blown off when her first lightsaber exploded due to her careless and sloppy construction. Just some thoughts.

Kyndig_Episte
25 June 2002, 05:34 PM
well, if any one has red any of the star wars tales series of comics would know that in like issue 2 or 3 there was a section that told the story of how anikan found the broken body and head of 3po and smuggled him home. i belive that on the internal parts and it would make sense that there would be the designation 3po somewhere near the main proccessor. that's just my 2 cents.

dgswensen
25 June 2002, 05:55 PM
Anakin says he built C-3PO, not that he designed him.

That the 3PO protocol droid series is ubiquitous by the time of Episode I is obvious. After all, who's one of the first characters we see in the movie? TC-14, the protocol droid. Silver coloring aside, TC-14 looks identical to 3PO. Plus, there's more than one protocol droid walking around Mos Espa long before we see Anakin for the first time.

You can also establish from visual context that protocol droids seem fairly easy to assemble. Even if he is adept, Anakin's just a 10 year old kid. Plus there's the scene where he snaps on C3PO's eye just like putting together some Legos, and bam, it works, just like that. Compare to the scene in ESB where Chewie snaps on 3PO's head BACKWARDS and he still starts functioning. Obviously, protocol droids are meant to be almost idiot-proof in terms of putting one together. :)

As for his plating -- you can't tell me that in ten year's time Shmi couldn't find someone to get her some stuff for the droid -- Cliegg or Owen, for starters. That's not much of a stretch.

As for the Essential Guide to Droids -- not to make a canon issue out of it, but I am not certain GL knows or cares too much about the contents of that book. Obviously, whatever's in the film trumps whatever's in the guide.

I'm sorry, but I don't really see the alarming discrepancy you're talking about.

Erokh
25 June 2002, 05:57 PM
I believe that Tenel Ka got her arm replaced with cybernetics.

bagman19
26 June 2002, 04:45 AM
The last book I read with Tenel Ka, I think it was either Delusions of Granduer or the one about the Alien Supremacy League, Tenel Ka did NOT use a cybernetic because the wound would remind her of her failure, that she needs to be more careful. Whether or not htat has changed, I dunno. Just putting it out there!

Alistair
26 June 2002, 06:21 AM
Does the term "White Current" ring a bell with anyone else? I could have sworn one of the books described Luke finding out his mother was from a planet where they believed in this supernatural aspect (perhaps just a different name for the light side of the Force). I have no idea if this is anywhere near right, my memory's hazy since I haven't read any EU books in years. Could someone confirm or deny any of this? If it's remotely true, then that's a huge discrepancy in itself.

Nova Spice
26 June 2002, 06:47 AM
Yes, "White Current" does ring a bell. I believe this little story arc is in the Black Fleet Crisis where Luke follows a Force Adept named Akanah in search of his mother. As far as I can remember it really isn't a big discrepancy because Luke knew nothing of his mother and there wasn't anything in the novels that has thus far contradicted the films. He was simply lied to by Akanah about his mother's background. I mean Luke and Leia were separated ay birth so Luke knew absolutely nothing about his mother (and at the time neither did we as fans), so it winds up being a wild goose chase that contains no goose. :D
In fact, that is one scenario that is the easiest to explain without contradicting the films. I will admit that Black Fleet Crisis isn't in my favorites as far as EU books, but why would it be? Those Yevetha were nasty beings! :p

By the way, I think this thread probably belongs in Rumors and Speculation. ;)

Random Axe
26 June 2002, 09:17 AM
Whether or not the movies override any other written material, this 3P0 business is just too stupid to let slide. AoTC has us believe that 3po was already working on the Lars farmstead. WOULDN'T THAT HAVE SHOWN UP at some point in A New Hope? At no time did 3po ever blab about how familiar the place was, whether it was Anchorhead or the farm or even Tatooine in general. Instead, we're supposed to buy that the locale of his escape from the Rebel Blockade Runner was a total accident and something wholly new to him, when in fact according to George, he would have spent his "formative years" there.

Are we supposed to laugh at the line from ANH when he says "Sir, one of my first assignments was programming binary loadlifters, very similar to your vaporators in most respects." Well, No Shyte Sherlock, in fact your very first job appears to have been programming these very selfsame vaporators right in front of your rusty little head!

I suppose we're expected to make up an explanation from here that 3po eventually received a brainwipe at some point between AoTC and ANH, so that he does actually forget about Owen and Beru, but geez, wouldn't R2 have reminded him about it at some point??? Or are we supposed to buy that R2 had gotten another memwipe at the same time? Too many coincidences, too convenient, and too sloppy an error.

Nova Spice
26 June 2002, 09:27 AM
I suppose we're expected to make up an explanation from here that 3po eventually received a brainwipe at some point between AoTC and ANH, so that he does actually forget about Owen and Beru, but geez, wouldn't R2 have reminded him about it at some point??? Or are we supposed to buy that R2 had gotten another memwipe at the same time? Too many coincidences, too convenient, and too sloppy an error.

Actually George Lucas has pretty much admitted that C-3PO and R2 get a memory wipe in Episode III. I read that in a report at www.theforce.net. So basically in answer to your question, yeah, I suppose we should believe that the droid duo receive a memory wipe somewhere between Attack of the Clones and A New Hope because it came straight from the creator's mouth. ;) That also means it wasn't a sloppy error either. :)

Danan Valos
26 June 2002, 12:19 PM
Thanks for all the input guys! With all the opinions, I'm starting to get the gist of what is really going on. I do agree about this thread being in rumors and speculation though...

dgswensen
26 June 2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Random Axe
Whether or not the movies override any other written material, this 3P0 business is just too stupid to let slide. AoTC has us believe that 3po was already working on the Lars farmstead. WOULDN'T THAT HAVE SHOWN UP at some point in A New Hope? At no time did 3po ever blab about how familiar the place was, whether it was Anchorhead or the farm or even Tatooine in general.
I'd say something to the effect of "What is Lucas supposed to do, go back in time and make a bunch of changes to A New Hope?" but alas, that wouldn't be a joke -- Lucas is planning to alter the original trilogy again in order to add in more Episode I material. So be careful what you wish for, because you're going to get it -- and you probably won't like it, either.

And as someone already pointed out, Lucas already gave up in interviews that R2 and 3PO have memory wipes.

Alistair
26 June 2002, 01:47 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Nova, I haven't read the Black Fleet books since they first came out. I have to agree, they weren't the best of the series. I find that most of my favourite books were written by Zahn.

Nova Spice
26 June 2002, 03:40 PM
No prob Alistair, its my pleasure! I seem to wield the uncanny ability to retain Star Wars knowledge and I have a hard time getting it out of my head! Scary isn't it? :p


So be careful what you wish for, because you're going to get it -- and you probably won't like it, either.

This isn't meant to target dgswensen specifically, because so many share his opinion. I have often sat back and reflected on what it is about the prequels that everyone hates, or rather, what it is that George Lucas is doing to aggravate the new generation of fans. I've heard everything from "He's lost his touch" to "He's ruining STAR WARS" or to "If He had just let someone else direct the prequels they'd be better."
I tend to wonder how on earth could so many people who adored Episodes IV-VI not like the current films? I've yet to figure this mystery out and I doubt it will be an answer I'll be able to find until after Episode III is finished. Basically, George Lucas hasn't lost his touch. He's still making STAR WARS movies twenty-five years after the original release and all five films are in the TOP TWENTY of all time. That's one-fourth of the best movies ever made belonging to STAR WARS, not bad eh? Fact is, he can't ruin STAR WARS, because it is his, he owns it and it belongs to no one else but him. This further entails that George Lucas should be the one to direct the movies. Its his story, its in his imagination and no one else is capable of relaying that vision to the big screen.
The prequels have a great storyline that mixes drama, action, romance, larger than life battles, evil villians, enticing political intrigue, and stunning effects. I want to know what is not to like? Why do people not have faith in George Lucas anymore? I can't wait until Episode III and the new additons and changes to the classic trilogy! This is just IMO of course and I am not angry or upset, just curious.
I am not trying to start a rant here, believe me, I am just trying to clarify how I feel while also searching for what it is that has made people think the newest films are not as good as the classic ones? Well, sorry for hi-jacking this thread and taking up a lot of space with this post. We take you back to your regularly scheduled posts! :p :D

Zanus
26 June 2002, 04:34 PM
heh, I sometimes wonder about the same thing. I think it comes down to Lucas had more time and space to work on the first three movies. when he started onthe prequels, everyone had their own ideas of what happened before (EU didn't help things much) and he had to deal with the added stress of matching his previous success while still making it all fit together. Sense the graphics where above and beyond what any star wars freak could hope for, alot of people looked for other things to find fault in just to try and match up the prequels to the 'originals'

This sort of thing often doesn't end rationaly in some casses, extreme in others. Obviously there are many other results and oppinions. In the end, it is best just to settle on your own idea, and don't let others influence you to much.

dgswensen
26 June 2002, 08:11 PM
I don't know why you felt the need to disclaim that, Nova Spice ... I agree with you.

I love the prequels. Sure, I have some complaints, but I have complaints with the original series too.

What I object to is Lucas tinkering with the original trilogy and changing things around -- and on top of it, making older versions inaccessible. Down the road, when those old first-edition VHS tapes of Star Wars wear out and break, the Special Edition will be all that's left -- and that to me is a very sad thing.

And now he's going to go back and mess with them again -- I think it's a mistake.

I wouldn't object nearly so much if Lucas would make the original films available on DVD. Uncut and un-f*cked with.

Puck
27 June 2002, 02:47 AM
Nova, I think it's because some people can't be an eight-year-old child anymore when they see a movie.

But that's just my impression.

Puck :)
(30-year-old 8-year-old :p)

bagman19
27 June 2002, 05:04 AM
Beware those few who have not seen Ep2!

















I myself want to know what is up with these prequels. I saw the Episode 2, and I was, well, bored. Sure, I loved all the inside jokes and answers to our questions, but I just felt like, I dunno, there was something missing. Maybe because we know what happens at the end. Maybe because there is no happy ending for 3. Maybe because there is no underdog. That first chase through Coruscant was just unfufilling. Maybe I have seen too many movies and I am de-sensitized. I can say confidently though that I did not like Hayden's performance that much, especially when he 'cried'. As an actor, I know how hard drama is, but it was just glaring when his face shriveled up like that and ...maybe it was the blue screen?

Anywho, the Yoda fight was well worth it, eh?

grizzly
7 July 2002, 03:48 AM
The number of times it's been said to me that "All this EU 'stuff' (for want of a polite term) is gonna be thrown out the window" I've lost track of. Ok.. so we know that Luke and Leia are twins and were split up at birth. We know that Padme and Anakin are their parents. But where in any of the films/books after Ep IV is Padme identified as their mother?
In the Black Fleet Crisis Luke goes off on his wild goose chase, not knowing anything about his mother. Just because we've seen what happens between Anakin and Padme, does this mean Luke should know as well? Or that it's been recorded in some archives?
Look at the trouble Luke has in tracking down information on the Jedi.. all the records have been wiped out. If there was any information on Padme and Anakin, wouldn't it be likely that it was held by the Jedi, and therefore wiped out with the rest of their records?

stoic_75
7 July 2002, 06:40 PM
Anyone have the revised screens for the core rulebook for D6? It had a timeline chart that said: "112 years before Yavin C-3PO activated." I think we should all accept that Lucas is going to do whatever the hell he wants whether or not it contradicts something previousily said in a movie or makes any sense whatsoever.

Autochton
1 August 2002, 03:17 AM
... and as for Owen not recognizing the droids:

A) C-3PO had a shiny new set of plates. That makes him fairly hard to distinguish from any other 3PO droid.

B) None of the droids recognized him.

C) Do any of you remember the license plates of one of your father's cars 20 years ago very well? If not, then why should Owen?

Autochton
1 August 2002, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by stoic_75
Anyone have the revised screens for the core rulebook for D6? It had a timeline chart that said: "112 years before Yavin C-3PO activated." I think we should all accept that Lucas is going to do whatever the hell he wants whether or not it contradicts something previousily said in a movie or makes any sense whatsoever.

Yes. George Lucas is going to do whatever the heck he wants with Star Wars. And you know why? Because HE and ONLY HE made Star Wars. He created the universe, made the films. That WEG cooked up some half-asses stats based on doubtful research (if any at all) is their problem, not ours. That WEG made up a timeline by pulling numbers out of their asses, again, is their problem, not George Lucas'. So stop pretending it is.

stoic_75
1 August 2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Autochton


Yes. George Lucas is going to do whatever the heck he wants with Star Wars. And you know why? Because HE and ONLY HE made Star Wars. He created the universe, made the films. That WEG cooked up some half-asses stats based on doubtful research (if any at all) is their problem, not ours. That WEG made up a timeline by pulling numbers out of their asses, again, is their problem, not George Lucas'. So stop pretending it is.

Perhaps Hasbro should market figures of Lucas in a white robe so we can all stick him on the dashboard our car's. I, in the meatime, will continue to remain skeptical.