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Talonne Hauk
25 June 2002, 07:15 PM
I'm running a campaign set in the formative days of the Rebellion, and I have a couple of questions that I need answered to help flesh it out;

1) When was Ackbar able to ditch Tarkin and come to the side of the Rebellion?

2) When was the X-Wing first introduced?

Any help in answering these questions is greatly appreciated, especially if you can point out source material.
Thanks!

Zanus
26 June 2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Talonne Hauk
I'm running a campaign set in the formative days of the Rebellion, and I have a couple of questions that I need answered to help flesh it out;

1) When was Ackbar able to ditch Tarkin and come to the side of the Rebellion?

2) When was the X-Wing first introduced?

Any help in answering these questions is greatly appreciated, especially if you can point out source material.
Thanks!

1) I believe Dark Saber talks about that. Ackbar had worked with the rebels to intercept Tarkins shuttle durring the construction, or near completion of the Death Star. Tarkin was in route to the site with the 'designer' (which is now in question cause of EpII, but that is besides the point) when rebel Y-wings, I think only 2 of them, but more then a match for a shuttle, disabled the shuttle, with Ackbars help sense he was piloting the shuttle. Tarkin and the designer jumped in an escape pod while the Y-wings docked and picked up Ackbar. I think he spent the next few months to years working on counter strategies to imperial strategies implemented by Tarkin, as well as organizing the Alliance fleet, and designing the B-wing. But that is an educated guess.

2) I know there was a thread on one of the other forums about what ships where in what era's, and it gave several possible dates on when the X-wing was introduced. I read in one place that it was originally designed for the empire, but the design team stole it and took it to the alliance. I never found an actual date for that. For now, the running bet is a year or so before the battle of Yavin, maybe evin earlier then that.

Also, a good source on the founding of the Rebel Alliance is the Han solo trilogy, especially that last book or two. I don't remember the author or the names of the books sense my copies where eaten, but they where a good read.

Rogue Janson
27 June 2002, 11:33 AM
Akbar was freed by the alliance shortly before the completion of the death star, it's hard to get a more accurate time. This is featured in the X-Wing game and probably mentioned elsewhere too.

The thread on the introduction of ships is here http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7935

And finally, the Han Solo books are by AC Crispin and they're very good.

Mad Tech
29 June 2002, 06:09 PM
According to the Star Wars Timetales website, the X-Wing was introduced about 6 years before Episode IV. This isn't official, but the Timetales website at http://www.theforce.net/timetales/ is a pretty good resource.

Mad Tech

Pel
6 July 2002, 10:51 AM
Six years seems a bit long to me. After all, Palpatine had just dissolved the Imperial Senate in Ep. IV, and while the Rebellion was known about, it wasn't widely discussed in polite conversation. I'd say the Incom engineers jumped ship about a year or two before Alderaan was slagged. After all, it was still an "insignificant rebellion".

As for Ackbar, I believe he was rescued by Rebel commandoes who were trying to whack Tarkin aboard his shuttle while en route to the Death Star (maybe still under construction?). Ackbar was a servant/pet for the wrinkled evil guy who just happened to have a gift for starfighter design and winning against impossible odds :) . Of course, copying Tarkin's playbook of invincible strategies might have helped...

Tem_Starrunner
11 July 2002, 01:05 PM
Darksaber never really gives an exact time frame for Ackbar being liberated by the Rebellion. But I always assumed it was about a year even at most two years prier to ANH. Ackbar release also signified (at least at this time) the first clues that the Death Star existed and was being built.

Jett Darkstar
13 July 2002, 12:59 PM
Six years before ANH sounds about right for the X-Wing, and so does the timeline for Ackbar being rescued and joining the Alliance. :)

Sherman Shipyards
14 July 2002, 10:50 PM
If I remember right, the x-wing wasn't in service for more than a year prior to ANH. The main reasoning is behind this is the small number of the craft a the Battle of Yavin. Some where between 12 to 24 units. Why not send a all x-wing task force. Anyone who has play X-wing: Alliance knowns, a y-wing flies like a drunken bantha.

Zanus
15 July 2002, 03:23 PM
There where several instances either inthe movies or books (hopefully both) where they refered to the X-wing as an antiquated fighter. Granted, obviously not as old as the Z-95, or even the Y-wing for that matter. The reason they didn't have a full X-wing force at Yavin is probably the same reason they didn't have a full A-wing/B-wing force at Endor. Available resources. They probably couldn't get many more X-wings to Yavin in time. The Y-wings where treated as bombers, and where meant to do the dirty deed on the DS while the X-wings flew cover. Obviously almost all the Y-wings got waisted, so the X-wings stepped in. In addition, the Alliance proly had their resources spread pretty thin around the galaxy, with squadrons of X-wings, Y-wings and whatever other fighters they could get their hands on in positions to harass imperial shipping. If your that spread out, it takes time to gather sizeable forces back together. The force they had at Yavin was still pretty good size (40 to 50 fighters), and proved to be sufficient for the job.

Sherman Shipyards
15 July 2002, 08:40 PM
Your talking about the 1st return of the empeior, when the E-wing was introduced. However, by Vector Prime a new version of the x-wing was coming into proctucion that put it back on the cutting edge. At the Battle of Yavin was the best in the galaxy.

Even in the the real word miltary hardware usally last only 10 to 20 years.

Zanus
16 July 2002, 04:37 PM
That is not entirely true. Most of the high price hardware we have today has been around for twenty years at least (ok, some of it is younger, but not by a whole lot) and the way things are going, we will have it for quite some time to come. Heck, look at how old the B-52 is, and that has been around since the Vietnam War, if not longer.

Also, just because the X-wing is one of the best, doesn't mean it is the newest. Politicians and higher end officers tend to think newest is better in some weird way. thus the difference between the TIE and X-wing. the misconception may simply have come from eas of maintenance and production, where the X-wing might have been more complicated in some ways. It is one of those point of view things that, in the end, worked against the Empire.

Of coarse, the Y-wing may have been old, but it could definetly take a beating. and from what I read, the ion cannon turret had 360 degree range of fire, so, with the co-pilot (depending on the version and available personel) you could blast a pursueing fighter off your six.


Your talking about the 1st return of the empeior, when the E-wing was introduced. However, by Vector Prime a new version of the x-wing was coming into proctucion that put it back on the cutting edge. At the Battle of Yavin was the best in the galaxy.

uhm...when did I say anything about that?

Sherman Shipyards
17 July 2002, 12:24 AM
You didn't. Just adding more context.

Zanus
17 July 2002, 12:33 PM
I am sorry, I fail to see how misinterpruting what I was saying and more or less puting words in my mouth is "adding more context." Checking the other posts, no one even mentioned the first return of the emperor, or E-wings, or anything of that nature. Yes, I did mentioned some other threads that may have wondered into the DE series, but that is not here. I ask that you pay a bit more attention to what it is your posting about, as this sort of thing gives me the feeling that you don't know what you are talking about. I don't think anyone desirves to be told that or had that thought about them.

Sherman Shipyards
17 July 2002, 09:52 PM
Sorry if I offended you. I ment no harm.

Zanus
18 July 2002, 11:46 AM
MEH, no worries. I am sure there where mistakes on all sides somewhere. Anything that doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, right? ;)

Back to subject at hand, and this probably will start making it lean more towards rumors and speculation, but what if Naboo ends up playing a major roll in the rebellion? from what I could tell Alderaan supported the Alliance secretly but didn't realy send alot of resources to help. what if Naboo decides to go into self imposed poverty to deny Palpy any funds from his home by sending all their resources to the alliance to do with as they please. would give a realistic explanation for the Naboo fighters in the Rogue squadron games :)

also, does anyone know when the first Rebel Assualt Frigate (the modified dreadnaughts) where first introduced? Those ships have always kinda intrigued me.

FlipDog 2000
24 July 2002, 08:23 AM
I always thought that Naboo was just out of the picture. So, if what Zanus said, the denying fundage to Palpy, is true, then Palpy and his anger might turn Naboo in to some sort of labor camp or prison planet.

Darklighter
15 August 2002, 08:49 AM
Back to the X-wing thing, I think the 6 years might best apply as the time when the design team defected. With the Rebellion's limited resources, it would have taken them at least a year to figure out what they had, get production facilities set up, and begin to train pilots. Maybe 4 years before Yavin, they actually start appearing, first in very small quantities.

My reasoning for picking more than a year or two for the introduction of the X-wing is two-fold.

One, in WEG Galaxy Guide 1: A New Hope, the book mentions that morale among TIE pilots had begun to slip with the losses they were taking at the hands of the new X-wing. The Death Star tour of duty was to be a rallying point for TIE pilots as they defended the facility with their best pilots. This means the X-wing was around long enough, and in enough numbers, to both affect TIE pilot morale, and for the Imperial military to formulate a response.

Two, in a number of sources it is mentioned that starfighter prototypes were being developed to counter the X-wing, prior to the battle of Yavin. The x1 prototype flown by Darth Vader had already been passed over for other designs by the time the battle at Yavin comes around (although it remained in service with a few elite squadrons). These prototypes ultimately culminate in the TIE Interceptor, "the first Imperial fighter designed specifically to counter the Rebel X-wing" (this is actually a paraphrase from another WEG product). This means that the Empire had to determine there was a problem and begin formulating solutions years before Yavin. It takes time to design, test, and produce a prototype.

Anyway, that's my long-winded response. :)