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View Full Version : Obi-Wan is a Failed Jedi???



Corr Terek
27 June 2002, 07:39 PM
Yeah, I know it sounds odd, but doesn't Obi-Wan say to Luke, "I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father." (emphasis added). To me, that seems to imply that Obi-Wan was demoted or something. I would think, once a Jedi, always a Jedi--unless you fall or something. Did the Jedi Council kick him out of the Order after Anakin's fall? Also, it seems to say that Anakin actually made Knighthood. Unless this happened in Ep. 2, it's news to me. Comments, anyone?

Zanus
27 June 2002, 07:46 PM
I don't think you can get kicked out of an order that no longer exists. And Jedi are not Marines, I think they can willingly stop as active Jedi and retire or move on to other things. when the third to last Jedi, or after the birth of the twins, Obi Wan proly took luke and settled into watching over him, ending (for hte time) his galactic adventures. Thus, he is a retired jedi, not fallen

Rouge8
28 June 2002, 05:46 PM
No. Was a jedi means he no longer goes around with a saber or shouting, "I am a JEDI Stop fighting!"

Corr Terek
29 June 2002, 08:26 AM
Well, you have a point there. But then again, Jedi Shadows don't exactly run around proclaiming their Jedi-ness. That line just struck me as rather odd.

Nova Spice
29 June 2002, 09:19 AM
Well Rouge is a bit younger than most of us on the boards. In fact I would be willing to say he IS the youngest on the boards. He isn't even twelve yet, so give him a little slack. ;)
And Rouge your birthday is on the same day my cousin (and best friend) was born. And my birthday is in August as well! August rules!

In all seriousness, I don't see Obi-Wan as being a failed Jedi unless he does something in Episode III we don't know about yet. Perhaps a bit of Qui-Gon's defiance surfaces in Obi-Wan on a matter concerning Anakin and the Council banishes Obi-Wan or something? An interesting topic Corr and something I think people should give a lot more thought about. B)

Corr Terek
1 July 2002, 04:23 PM
I wasn't bashing Rouge8, just making a counter-point to his point. :)

But yes, I must wonder if Obi-Wan doesn't defy the Council somehow. Any other comments, thoughts?

BrianDavion
1 July 2002, 05:47 PM
I've never seen anything OFFICAL on the jedi shadow eaither, just a PCR on this site IIRC

stoic_75
7 July 2002, 06:46 PM
I always thought the guy on the failed jedi template in D6 looked a lot like Obi Wan.

Pel
7 July 2002, 09:53 PM
I think it's entirely possible that Obi-Wan (Ben) is a failed Jedi, not from a Council decree, but from his own feelings of guilt.
After failing to take out/redeem Anakin/Vader, thus leading to purge/mass execution (not to mention allowing his padawan to fall in the first place) he grabbed the twins, went into self-imposed exile, and forsook all but the most rudimentary use of the Force to atone for his perceived mistakes.

AxiustheDark
16 August 2002, 09:49 AM
I have both a question/thought on this....

If I remember from the Dark Horse Comic Series: Redemption, Ulic QelDroma made Vima Sundrider a Jedi just by saying she was one. At this point, did Vima still have to go back and get the council's approval, or did she just go from there?

Could Obi-Wan have "fallen" becuase he continued to train Anakin even after he was proving not to be a suitable cantidate for knighthood? I mean, if Obi-Wan would have ever let Anakin train under another master, Anakin would probably be in the AgriCorps instead of a BigBlackSuit. Would a Jedi, like Obi-Wan, become disgraced in the eyes of the Jedi Order by recommending that an unsuitable Padawan was ready to take the trails?

Durian Keldrona
16 August 2002, 10:49 AM
I think that Obi-wan is a failed Jedi in the way Pel says. Feeling that he Failed his order by not being able to keep Anakin from the Dark SIde and and not being able to turn him from it.

Grim Fantango
18 August 2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by AxiustheDark
Could Obi-Wan have "fallen" becuase he continued to train Anakin even after he was proving not to be a suitable cantidate for knighthood? I mean, if Obi-Wan would have ever let Anakin train under another master, Anakin would probably be in the AgriCorps instead of a BigBlackSuit. Would a Jedi, like Obi-Wan, become disgraced in the eyes of the Jedi Order by recommending that an unsuitable Padawan was ready to take the trails?


In AotC, Obi wouldn't shutup about how unready Anakin was. I doubt the council would kick him out for that, but i do believe Obi would put himself into exile if anakin turned to the dark side.

Tramp
23 August 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by AxiustheDark
I have both a question/thought on this....

If I remember from the Dark Horse Comic Series: Redemption, Ulic QelDroma made Vima Sundrider a Jedi just by saying she was one. At this point, did Vima still have to go back and get the council's approval, or did she just go from there?


Vima Sunrider became a Knight the moment Ulic proclaimed her one. Remember, the Jedi Order of that tme was alot looser than during the Rise of the Empire era and less structured. The Jedi Council as it's seen in TPM doesn't really exsist; at that time it was simply an informal gathering of Jedi Masters who came together only infrequently. It wasn't the rigid council we see in TPM and AotC.

FlipDog 2000
24 August 2002, 08:31 AM
Vima could not have just been promoted! That was still up to the council, because the council was SUPER-STRUCTURED and annoying. Mainly because this was the time before Yoda took high council seat. Yoda actually loosened it up and made it a little more lax.


The Jedi Council as it's seen in TPM doesn't really exsist; at that time it was simply an informal gathering of Jedi Masters who came together only infrequently. It wasn't the rigid council we see in TPM and AotC.

BTW - That doesn't make ANY sense...how can the council be both unorganized AND rigid at the same time???

Despite the fact that Ulic was once a Jedi, he couldn't just proclaim someone a knight. In fact, no Jedi could...maybe he meant it in a spiritual sense...or something else. I don't know, but I DO know that the council was a lot more unforgiving back in the days of the Sith.

Codym
1 September 2002, 05:07 PM
The first thing to remember about the whole Ulic QelDroma/Vima Sundrider thing is that a lot of Episode I was designed to contridict that and the entire Tales Of The Jedi series (which had people declaring themselves Jedi for no reason left, right and centre.) Remember, this was the series that gave us "Jedi blasters", "Sith magicians" and solo-mother Jedi Knight poster girls. It's a shame that the DarkSide Source Book had to take so much from it.

As for the original question, Pel hit the nail on the head. Obi-Wan no longer conciders himself a Jedi due to the failure and betrayal of Anakin. He is a failed Jedi, but not by the standards of the Council or the roleplaying game's rule set.