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MrKenpoJr
2 July 2002, 06:06 PM
I just finished watching Episode I again, and I've finally figured out why I hate Jar Jar Binks so much. It's his voice. It's that high-pitched, whiny, more-than-slightly hysterical quality that makes me want to jump out a window. His antics didn't bother me so much, and even his regular speaking voice wasn't miserable. But when he starts to screech, that's when I hate him. Now that I think of it, Anakin's "I'm a hot $#!+" attitude is a little irksome as well, but that's overlooked in light of Jar Jar.

I just thought I'd share that with you all...I now return you to your regularly scheduled posting.

Ravager_of_worlds
3 July 2002, 10:01 AM
i don't know, the 'stupid look' on jar jar's face often irked me. the high pitched voice is offensive, surely, but it has to be that mug.

based on principle, as a GM i do not allow gungans as player characters. I'm too sure that the character will die inside of 20 minutes of play. Not by my hand assuredly, but at the hands of my players. Their policy is "Shoot on sight" for Gungans.

MrKenpoJr
3 July 2002, 10:16 AM
based on principle, as a GM i do not allow gungans as player characters

Oh, I totally agree. I have no intention of letting any of my players make Gungans.

PC: "Hey, can I make a Gungan?"
GM: "No."
PC: "But I've got a great idea for him."
GM: "Tell you what, make 2 characters...just in case." :D

But as for Jar Jar's mug, that honestly wasn't that big a deal...it had a kind of innocence to it that added to the character. But his manic voice just drives through me.

tlfoust
5 July 2002, 09:05 PM
you know what did it for me?

"Ex-sqeeeeze me!"

That one line just put me over the edge from thinking Lucas could have done better to hating the character entirely. It brought back far too many memories of Michelle Tanner on Full House. Note: i did not enjoy Full House.


and probably since that line was in the first encounter with him, it didn't help his cause any.

Nova Spice
5 July 2002, 10:28 PM
Well I can certainly understand not liking Jar-Jar. However, it wasn't the characters or the actors that bugged me. It was simply some of the dialogue used. Examples:

-Anakin:" Whoops! Wrong one!"
-Anakin: "Woohoo!"
-Anakin: "I think its overheated."
-Anakin: "Yippee!"
-Anakin: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick."
-Jar-Jar: "Icky-icky goo."

Basically, the plot, action, and actors were great. I enjoyed the film and think every saga (especially one as great as Star Wars) has to have a foundation to build on. I imagine that after Episode III, we will look at the young Anakin (Episode I), at his innocence and care-free attitude, and realize how powerful a story has been told.
I thought the dialogue in AotC was much better, more Star Wars-ish and it even had a few witty remarks by Obi-Wan and of course the best line in the whole film:

-Mace Windu: "Party's over." :D (Man I love that line!)

Personally I found the lightsaber duel at the end of TPM to be the best thus far and of course the ground battle was spectacular! I must say that a trade dispute could've been portrayed in a much more boring fashion, but it wasn't! I say, with a revised dialogue, Episode I would have been 10 times better, hands down! ;) Nevertheless I still enjoyed the film.

Reverend Strone
6 July 2002, 01:02 AM
Jar Jar pales by comparrison to Anakin in terms of annoyingness in Ep I for me. Nova listed some of the most cringe inducing one-liners in his post above.

A close second would have to be those other kids with the ball. Arrgh!

As for Jar Jar, sure he was too highly featured, and his laughs just weren't funny, but in the character's defense, he was about the only character in that film rendered in 3D.;)

tlfoust
7 July 2002, 03:36 PM
You forgot one: "That's wizard Annie!"

that rodain child was just.....wrong. i can't remember, did he have a giant lollipop in his hand?



and i'm in total agreement- i still think the end lightsaber deul in TMP was the best. as good as AotC was, i still have to put that squence with the Deual Fates playing as the top.

Ravager_of_worlds
8 July 2002, 09:43 AM
the duel of the fates makes up for all the bogus stuff we were forced to endure from anakin and jarhead. i totally agree there- i just wish Darth Maul had been at the battle with the gungans; that would have made me feel a whole lot better...


... unless somehow jarhead killed a sith lord. then i would cry.:(

MrKenpoJr
8 July 2002, 07:06 PM
Yet what bothers me is that the last 45 minutes of the movie showed us Darth Maul kicking the bejeezus out of both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon...two on one, mind you. However, at the very last second, a disarmed and mostly helpless padawan learner is able to leap up, yank a lightsaber across the room with the Force, and slice Darth Maul in twain, much to the surprise and confusion of Maul himself. It was just a lame, lame way for him to go out. Meanwhile, we've got Count Dooky coming back (presumably) for another round. Sure, he had a good fight with Yoda, but please...Darth Maul he ain't.

Nova Spice
9 July 2002, 07:43 AM
. It was just a lame, lame way for him to go out. Meanwhile, we've got Count Dooky coming back (presumably) for another round. Sure, he had a good fight with Yoda, but please...Darth Maul he ain't.

Gotta disagree with ya here MrKenpo. :D You said it yourself, the maneuver Obi-Wan pulled was a last-ditch effort that surprised even Darth Maul himself,which was why it wasn't lame. Lame woud have been if some nosy Naboo soldier had sneaked behind Maul and shot him in the back to rescue Obi-Wan. It wasn't lame when Obi-Wan used a Force Jump and Force Pull to leap out of a pit and cleave the Sith in two using the lightsaber of his fallen master. That was awesome!

Count Dooky? :D Well, personally I think its fairly clear that Darth Maul can't hold a candle to Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus). Maul may have looked really cool and had a cool weapon, but Dooku is definitely a more powerful Sith and swordsman. The simple fact that he defeated Obi-Wan (and was on the brink of killing him), defeated Anakin (cleaved his arm off), and gave Yoda a run for his money, without even breathing heavily shows that Dooku is truly a dark side rival of the mightiest Jedi, unlike Maul who was defeated at the hands of a Padawan.

Well that's my thoughts for the day. :)

Ravager_of_worlds
9 July 2002, 09:59 AM
well, dooku is more elegance than power. you can see it in the formation of his lightsaber, the slight angle? Also, you'll notice that he has a dueling profile when he fights. uses one hand, etc. while maul is more 'flurry of blows' and 'strength'.

dooku understands that a saber just needs to strike, not be driven through. a child's strength can slice off a limb with a saber, but only when you expect to be parried would strength behind the blow need to occur.

but i agree with MrKennPro , Darth Maul is a cooler and better movie villian. I'd be more scared of Maul than Tyranus. I could break Tyranus' knee caps and he'd be whining on the floor. I could break Maul's knee caps and he'd smile and ask if that was the best i could do. then i'd run.

MrKenpoJr
9 July 2002, 12:43 PM
Lame woud have been if some nosy Naboo soldier had sneaked behind Maul and shot him in the back to rescue Obi-Wan.Ok, I'll grant you this. However, I still feel that if Obi-Wan's gonna get a lucky shot in, it should've been during the saber fight, not when he's just this side of helpless...'course, Star Wars is all about the underdog kickin' @$$ and takin' names, isn't it? :D

that surprised even Darth Maul himself
Yeah, but if you look at the scene just before Obi-Wan goes sailing through the air, you notice Maul staring down at him with a wrinkled brow, like he knew something was up. Then, he gets split in half. I think that Maul was just toying with Obi-Wan throughout most of that encounter, not that he couldn't defeat a mere padawan.


The simple fact that he defeated Obi-Wan (and was on the brink of killing him How, 'cause he whacked Obi-Wan once in the arm, once in the leg, then tried to drop machinery on him? Besides, Maul defeated Obi-Wan and was on the brink of killing him, too. I'm not saying that Tyranus couldn't beat Ben. I'll guarantee that he could...hell, he did and it didn't even take as much effort as when Maul did it. They just had two different ways of going about it.

Just for grins, I'd be interested to see how a fight between the frenetic and acrobatic Maul and the quite and reserved Tyranus went.

young padawan
9 July 2002, 09:43 PM
I was thinking a bout the force lighting used on anakin in AotC, and the and the force lighting used on Luke in RotJ. I know that there is about fifteen years between the two movies but when the Count got anakin he was out for like four or five mins. I understand the fact that it was for dramatic purposes in the movie, but when the emperor got Luke with it it did not seem as powerful. Luke just jumped up and went to his dad and stated trying to help him. He hardly missed a step. I know Lucus could not see into the future to correct the problem. I thought it was something only I saw and no one else did.


Carl

Reverend Strone
9 July 2002, 10:46 PM
Just speculation, and I'm not sure how it would translate to game mechanics, but I'd put it down to this-

In ROTJ, the Emperor wanted Luke to suffer, so I guess his emphasis would have been on pain rather than damage. In AOTC, Dooku acted as he did to basically take Anakin out of the picture so he could concentrate on Obi Wan. I doubt he viewed Anakin as anything more than an annoyance, and thus simply swatted him away as cleanly and quickly as he could- loads of damage straight up.

I'd also imagine Luke to be a good deal tougher than Anakin by that stage in his development as a Jedi.

Just my theory.

The Admiral
10 July 2002, 04:05 AM
Ah, Dooku did what was needed to stop Anakin. He'd never kill him. Remember who Tyrannus's boss is? Remember who that guy's favourite Jedi is?

Reverend Strone
10 July 2002, 03:48 PM
Very true. My point is really just that Dooku wasn't trying to torture Anankin, just put him out of the picture, which I believe is the difference between the use of Force Lightning in both scenes.

Talonne Hauk
10 July 2002, 04:06 PM
If I recall correctly, Luke didn't just "miss a step" when he went to Vader/Anakin after he got shot up with lightning. He crawled. I think it's safe to say that he did get the bejeezus kicked out of him.
Now, back to the main topic; Episode I.
I'm completely behind the good Reverend on this one. Anakin was the worst part of the movie, as far as I'm concerned. Jar Jar was annoying, true, but nothing betrays the spirit of Star Wars more than Anakin accidently blowing up the control ship with a single shot.
"Ooops!"
God, how I hate that.:mad:

Wedge in Red2
10 July 2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral
Ah, Dooku did what was needed to stop Anakin. He'd never kill him. Remember who Tyrannus's boss is? Remember who that guy's favourite Jedi is?

Okay, I've just got to reply to that. :)

IMO, no way was Tyrannus pulling his punch on Anakin. He would have killed him in the blink of an eye.

Tyrannus knows about the rule of 2. And he's not stupid. He probably has a fair idea that Palpatine is planing on upgrading his apprentice to the new Anakin model. [It would not surprise me to see Anakin kill Dooku in Ep 3, taking his place.] Stabbing each other in the back is what being a Sith is all about. The bit where Dooku tried to recruit Obi-Wan onto his team...you know he was making a play for Palpatines position as head Sith.

IMO, the reason Anakin was KO'ed while Luke was okay is a level issue (in game terms).

I'm not sure of the exact levels of the characters at the time. My guess is that Luke was already high level (I'd say at least 10th Jedi Guardian) despite Yoda's pronouncement that he was not a Jedi until he faced Vader. Anakin, meanwhile, feels he is ready to take the Jedi tests, but his Masters say no. That, to me, indicates he hasn't reached 6th level yet. I'd guess 4th or 5th. Both were low on vitality at the time (Luke from his battle with Vader, Anakin from his ordeals in the arena), but Luke (due to higher level) is more likely to make his Fort save so he's taking vitality damage rather than wounds. Anakin takes wound damage, fails his Fort save (again) so he is knocked out.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. :D

Jon

Reverend Strone
10 July 2002, 07:17 PM
He's right you know.

I hadn't really considered that.

If he even knew who Anakin was, it fits with Dooku's surprise when Anakin suddenly appears out of nowhere to stop the old man's blade from ginsuing Obi Wan.

Nova Spice
10 July 2002, 07:35 PM
True, Anakin wasn't as strong as Luke at the times they were shot with Force Lightning. Although if I remember the RESB right, Luke became a level 7 Jedi Guardian after the confrontation with Vader and Palpy. Luke was only a level 6 at the time of the confrontation.
Enough about game terms though, the fact is, that Episode I didn't appeal to the older audiences because the main theme of the TPM was essentially good-hearted and care-free unlike the other four movies. It seemed childlike, although Star Wars is certainly mature for a child-appealing series of films IMO, but in context it wasn't.
The actor playng Anakin just had some stupid lines that irked most of the mature audiences. I personally enjoyed the film, despite some of the "questionable" dialogue.
Oh well, I guess I'm too die-hard or something......I can't seem to find anything wrong wth the film except for a few lines. :D

Wedge in Red2
10 July 2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
If he even knew who Anakin was, it fits with Dooku's surprise when Anakin suddenly appears out of nowhere to stop the old man's blade from ginsuing Obi Wan.

[Apologies for taking the thread off on a tangent...]

Man, this is the thing I like about the Palpatine/Dooku Sith combo as compared to Palpatine/Maul.

Maul was like a guard dog, a sword, he was a tool that Palpy could point in a direction and say "kill", and he would.

Dooku on the other hand is smart. Sidious uses him more covertly, and Dooku uses his guile rather than brawn. As mentioned elsewhere (I think in the "Palpy is a whimp" thread on Rants and Raves), he is a finesse man rather than a power man.

I would be really interested to see how much Dooku and Palpatine were trying to manipulate the other. Did Palpatine manage to hide from Dooku the fact he was lining up Anakin as his next apprentice? Did Palpatine realise Dooku tried to sway Obi-Wan to his cause? Did Palpatine realise Dooku flat out told Obi-Wan that Sidious controlled the Senate? Only Episode 3 will tell, I guess.

I love the scene when Obi-Wan is captured and Dooku trys to sway him. Man, it's just come back to me. It's sooo Empire Strikes Back, when Vader tries to get Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor. The apprentice trying to overthrow the master. I love it.

Man, I love the Sith. They really make GM'ing the bad guys interesting... :D

Jon (We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread :) )

Wedge in Red2
10 July 2002, 09:29 PM
In trying to get the thread back on target:

I disliked both Anakin and Jar Jar in Episode 1.

Part of it was to do with the Pod Race. While visually spectacular, I thought it was superfluous in terms of the plot. And, why did Anakin need to be so young? I would have preferred it if he had been in early-mid teens, rather than a 10-year-old kid. I would have found it more believable to have a teenager destroying the Trade Federation Battle Station than a 10-year-old kid.

Jar Jar was a poor attempt to bring humour into the movie. Lucas, going more and more senile, seemed to think that the humour in SW had to be blatant. This is also seen in Ep2 with C-3PO’s one liners (“Oh, I’ve lost my head”, “Die Jedi Die - What did I say?”). I thought they were over the top. I mean, Yoda was funny when we first saw him in Ep2 – funny in a chuckle way, rather than a ROTFL way. Han, Luke and Leia’s banter on the Death Star was funny (“You came in that thing? You’re braver than I thought”). But Lucas just tried too hard with Ep1 and 2.

I guess I would have been more tolerant of Jar Jar if he had spoken in a normal voice...the blatantly Jamacian (and the Nemodians Japanese) accents were in poor taste, IMO.

That’s my thoughts. Controversial maybe. You'll probably disagree with me. But I'm just giving my take on what irked me about Episodes 1 & 2.

Jon

young padawan
11 July 2002, 07:13 PM
I don't think you could call him his favorite Jedi. I don't think Dooku would have put them in the ring with the killer creatures if that was the case. I don't think Dooku even knew that Anakin was palpatin favorite. or he would have tried to convince Anakin like he did Obi-wan. I am so ready to get my core rules so I can figure some of this stuff out on my own.

carl

young padawan
11 July 2002, 07:19 PM
Sorry to get off the subject again, Jon

Wedge in Red2
11 July 2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by young padawan
Sorry to get off the subject again, Jon

Don't say sorry to me, it's the other people reading the thread I'm worried about :D.

And you raise a very good point regarding Dooku not trying to convert Anakin...a good sign he was not aware of Palpatines plans. The look of surprise on Dooku's face when Anakin stops Obi-Wan from being ginsued (as Reverend Strone so eloquently put it) is likely due to the fact that he thought he had put Anakin out for the count (pun intended ;) ), yet Anakin recovered.

Jon :)

Dark72Jedi
4 August 2002, 05:57 AM
I would say Anakin was more annoying than Jar Jar, though how a whole race of bumbling idiots even evolved stumps me. Anakin was portrayed as overly innocent and selfless and I understand that Lucas was showing how far he was going to fall, but I think the root of the whole Anakin problem was most likely the actor and bad lines. To me this is what made Anakin annoying:

"Gee willikers Qui-Gon we can win the podrace and you can fly to Coruscant and save the world!"

"Oh gosh! I forgot to put C3-PO's eye in"

"Golly gee are you an angel?"

"Holy moly Sebulba is an especially dangerous Dug."

Uggggghhhhhhhhhhhh! Jake Lloyd sounded monotone delivering Wally Cleaver and the Beaver lines! Jar Jar was just overbearing comedy which failed miserably.

Seghast
4 August 2002, 10:10 AM
To borrow my sensei's idea on Episode I...

"During the production of Episode I, they pushed the 'cute button' too many times."

And he's right. Anakin and his "yipee" was put in there more for cutesy appeal that to stick with the storyline. JarJar was nothing but an "cute" character to sell the movie and it's merchandise to children.

Come to think of it, how did Anakin manage to see over the control console in that Naboo fighter? Did he have a booster seat or what?

Going to Episode II, Dooku is too much like Palpatine. Greed and power are his driving forces as a Sith. I liked Maul better because greed wasn't much of a factor with him; it was anger and hatred. Pure anger at everything around him, and an intense hatred for the Jedi.

As for the difference in Force Lightning, I think there's not a difference in the power, or not much of one, rather. Luke was fighting two on one, and was exhausted. He hadn't the strength to stand up good. Anakin had went one on one, and lost real quick, before he'd even had a chance to get tired. I imagine he sat there, trying to gather himself back up as he watched Obi-Wan's fight. When Dooku was about to finish Obi off, something snapped inside of Anakin. His anger and his desire to protect his friend, his "father figure" gave him strength and drove him to his feet to attack Dooku.

However, his anger blinded him. He didn't think clearly as he fought, and thusly, he lost an arm.

But that's just my asinine opinions.

dgswensen
4 August 2002, 12:41 PM
In all fairness -- Jake Lloyd is just a kid. Most child actors are not that good -- the only one I've seen in recent years who's impressed me is Haley Joel Osment (The Sixth Sense).

And the kid's got a double whammy against him with Lucas' dialogue. Star Wars dialogue has always been stilted and archaic -- their style of speaking is not modern and not casual.

People generally don't say things like "I care fo you too, only I--" and "Are you an angel?" and so forth. I won't make a judgment on whether it's "good" or "bad," but it is very different from the modern American fashion of speaking, and even the best actor would have trouble making those lines convincing (Harrison Ford's complaints about Lucas' dialogue are somewhat legendary), and Lloyd, again, is ten years old.

I think a lot of the original Star Wars actors could overcome the natural stiffness of their lines -- Ford and Hamill with lots of enthusiasm and energy, James Earl Jones with the sheer power of his voice, etc. I don't think the dialogue has changed much from the original trilogy, but the actors just don't seem to have the same panache -- Ewan MacGregor aside. Maybe it's all the blue screens they have to deal with all day.

Talonne Hauk
4 August 2002, 02:28 PM
I don't think anyone is blaming the kid. Although he is a professional - he should know how to act - but he didn't write and direct the film. The fact is, his presence in Episode I was jarring. (Jar-Jarring? Hmmm, no.:D ) And that falls on Mr. Lucas' shoulders. Lucas has admitted before that he's not the greatest director for actors, that he is more of a cinematographer. He also is not a screenplay writer, he comes up with plot ideas. He could have gotten away with the stilted dialogue if he could have evoked a real response from the kid. But he let the kid act like a stiff, and the movie suffered. He needlessly brought the kid to Naboo, where he had to do SOMETHING, and that was to, "Ooops!', accidently blow up the control ship. Don't you think that Episode I would have been better had Anakin been left with Yoda, allowing Yoda to scrutinize him, creating some ominous foreshadowing? Or better yet, Anakin tags along with the Senator from Naboo to analyze the ongoing surface battle, allowing the aforementioned senator to scrutinize Anakin, creating even more ominous foreshadowing? Don't tell me Anakin was needed to do something on Naboo, or I'll have to ask you what exactly Leia was doing the last 20 minutes of Episode IV.

kingnat
5 August 2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by dgswensen

People generally don't say things like "I care fo you too, only I--" and "Are you an angel?" and so forth. I won't make a judgment on whether it's "good" or "bad," but it is very different from the modern American fashion of speaking, and even the best actor would have trouble making those lines convincing (Harrison Ford's complaints about Lucas' dialogue are somewhat legendary), and Lloyd, again, is ten years old.

Good lord. I actually speak like that.
Of course, I'm not American, but still..

And in regards to Harrison Fords complaints... they lead to one of the finest exchanges of the entire series.

Leia; Han, I love you!
Solo; I know.


as opposed to the original


Solo; I love you too




I think a lot of the original Star Wars actors could overcome the natural stiffness of their lines -- Ford and Hamill with lots of enthusiasm and energy, James Earl Jones with the sheer power of his voice, etc. I don't think the dialogue has changed much from the original trilogy, but the actors just don't seem to have the same panache -- Ewan MacGregor aside. Maybe it's all the blue screens they have to deal with all day.

Yeah, I think the new trilogy suffers greatly from all the bluescreening.

An actor needs to be able to imagine themselves in their roles to make their performances more believable. The easier you make it for an actor to imagine it, the more energy can be spent on actually crating the character. If you spend too much energy imagining your surroundings (when you have no idea what they're going to look like in the final product) the less energy you have left to actually put into your performance.

Think of your brain as a computer.
It has limited processing power available for non-essential tasks (ie, not running itself) which has to be split between the applications.

A Kray supercomputer has more spare processing power than your average home computer (the understatement of the year) which means that it can devote more of it to certain applications.

The actor who is one of the greatest this world has to offer, also has an immense amount of spare processing power, but his "operating system" is not designed for the "bluescreen filmaking" application, and is thus less efficient than someone who is dedicated to that particular acting application. Of course, anyone who is that good is going to get training in the other forms of acting, since those skills are far more useful.

i.e. Someone who acts against a bluescreen will virtually never gie as good a performance as if they were actually physically there.

Wedge in Red2
8 August 2002, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by dgswensen
In all fairness -- Jake Lloyd is just a kid. Most child actors are not that good -- the only one I've seen in recent years who's impressed me is Haley Joel Osment (The Sixth Sense).

Yeah, having watched the Ep 1 DVD with it's special feature on casting, you appreciate Jake Lloyd a bit more. The 2 other guys who got down to the final 3 with him were wooden. At least Lloyd was active, the other 2 seemed like they were on some sort of suppresant (Riddlin (sp?) comes to mind).



...and even the best actor would have trouble making those lines convincing (Harrison Ford's complaints about Lucas' dialogue are somewhat legendary), and Lloyd, again, is ten years old.

Again, referencing the "making off" parts of the movies, this time from the Star Wars special edition videos. There's ths great piece where Harrison Ford says "The script was like nothing I'd ever seen before", shaking his head. I think the producers wanted it to look like Harrison was blown away by how revolutionary it was, but most viewers with a bit of wisdom realised Harrison was saying "the script was pure sh**". :D

Jon

Teal Tan Mudds
8 October 2002, 05:59 AM
Ho all you GMs out there,

i think it is not very farseeing if you judge the whole gungan race by the example of this one Binks. There are so many clans and a lot of real good warriors amongst them - so i do not agree in banning gungan chars.

It depends strongly from how you let them appear as a GM. It`s fully up to you wether they look clumsy or not. Even if they do not speak plain basic they got some great talents..
just imagine you had to disable a thermal detonator 90 Meter below surface.. you`d be lucky having a gungan in your submarine for the 'standard human' would not be able to leave the ship without special equipment.

I tell you what -
a campaign without gungans is like the armed forces without navy seals.

BrianDavion
8 October 2002, 08:39 AM
as I constantly tell folks re Gungans.

"remember Jar Jar isn't your standard gun gun.. they kicked him out"

hisham
9 October 2002, 03:37 AM
Well I thought Captain Tarpals was a cool guy. I wish he had more screen time to show off his military prowess instead of being upstaged by one upstart General.

His EU relation with Jar Jar Binks makes him all the more endearable.

*snort*

vornskr28
11 October 2002, 02:24 PM
Binks can be annoying.

Teal Tan Mudds
11 October 2002, 03:13 PM
Ho Vornskr,

your opinion is not .. well, new to me :).
What is it, that you don`t like about this one ?

Other thing - i do not like C3PO, because of his .. lets say irrelevant.. quotes and the 'concerned' sound of his voice. I also don`t like the wookee language.. is sounds like some big one crieing and Han Solos behaviour.

A really fine character in EP V is Yoda.

reliant
14 October 2002, 10:35 AM
I didn't have that big of a problem with the concept of the character of Jar Jar, but his lines and annoying voice were enough to make me want to scream. Oh, and the constant bathroom/looney-tunes humor involving him was just stupid.

Anakin was definately the second annoyance in the film. Between the flippy switch repair on the podracer (I hated that), the accidental destruction of the droid controll ship (and just in the nick of time!), and the all the stupid (or cute) lines, I couldn't take anymore. "Are you an angel?" Give me a break...

Teal Tan Mudds
14 October 2002, 11:56 AM
Ho reliant,

You`re perfectly right - i also do not like the appereance of Anakin and the 'romantic' scenes in EP I and II. The time he spends with amidala near this lake - all the 'smoothshots'.. well sorry - my basic knowledge lacks in several parts... are horrible.

Uuuhh.. i see a bulk of women come running on mee.. i guess i`ll better be gone. cYa

Paul Klein
15 October 2002, 11:56 AM
Hmmm, Episode 1. Where to begin?

Overall, I liked the movie. A lot.

But this thread isn't about that. It about what we disliked.

Jar Jar, overall, needed some tuning-down. The 'volume' of the character was simply too loud for the kind of movie Ep1 was.

Anakin, even though he was 8 in the movie, needed to have been written as if he was 10 or 12. This isn't unrealistic. Based on his life (slave, working hard - at age 8, expert racer, and of course Force Sensitive) it would make sense that he could have been well ahead of his years. 8 physically, but older mentally.

A lot of what people hated could have easily been fixed. Instead of him accidentally blowing up the main reactor, how about:

Anakin: Hey, that looks like the main reactor! What do ya say Artoo? You ready to get out of here in a hurry?
Artoo: Beep-bloop??

So in my opinion, Anakin suffered from lazy writing. He got his way every time through luck. The movie, unfortunately, never showed any of his skill. He's an expert pod-racer, but in the cockpit of a starfighter, he's throwing lines out like "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick". He even won the pod race through luck.

Lucas would have done well by rewriting much of Anakin. It wouldn't have even been a big change to the script or anything. Just make some of his "lucky accidents" things he does on purpose, because we KNOW he is an intelligent, highly skilled young boy. Lucas needed to show that.

Jar Jar on the other hand, needed a much more heavy reworking. The accent was TOO thick for me. "Mesa, yoosa, theysa", its too much. Change his dialect some, turn down his accent some, and take out just a few of his lines "Ex-squuuuze me", "Icky-icky goo", etc.... In fact, his scene with the Queen alone (“Yousa thinkin' people are gonna die?”) was a great Jar Jar scene. His ‘volume’ was much lower. He wasn’t Roger Rabbit in that scene.

After those two changed are made, only one other sweeping change would have to be implemented to make (IMO) Ep1 a GREAT movie. Get rid of all the overly silly kiddy jokes. No bantha crap for Jar Jar to step in. No Eopies farting in Jar Jar's face ("pee-yousa"), and get rid of Jar Jar juggling all the stuff in Watto's shop.

Hmm, in fact, it seems that everything in Ep1 that isn't Jar Jar's or Anakin's "fault" that are still bad, seem to involve Jar Jar in some way. So not only is Jar Jar an annoying PERSON, Lucas saw fit to put Jar Jar in a number of unpleasant situations as well, sorta like a patsy.

But I digress. Its too late to think of "shoulda, woulda, coulda". If we're gonna live with The Phantom Menace as 1/6th of the Star Wars saga, we're gonna have to somehow get over our differences with it, and learn to appreciate what the movie IS and what it DOES. Does well, that is :)

Ris
16 October 2002, 04:50 AM
I've been following this thread, & I thought both the "Less Jar-Jar" & "Jar-Jar OK" factions might be amused by these 2 tidbits on the Gungan accent.
First, I've an email-pal in Italy & he told me that in the Italian version the accent is a mix of several European languages. Unfortuantely, I cannot recall which ones they were. I'll ask him again.
The next is my changed view on what the accent was. Last fall, our church choir was practicing for the Christmas cantata, which, although written in the 1940's, consisted of medieval/Renassance carols. The lyrics were in Middle English--and when spoken/sung they sounded a lot like Gungan! 8o :rolleyes: So much so that it was several rehearsals before I could focus on learning my part rather than "Gee--we all sound like Jar-Jar!" :p The rest of the choir did get a kick out of it when I told them what I was thinking.

Teal Tan Mudds
16 October 2002, 05:17 AM
Hi Ris,
this is a nice one. A gungan christmas cantata makes your day, me tinkn :).
The german version of gunganese unfortunately has no great similarity to old or middleadged german language - it`s .. uuhmm.. rather dumb. But i like the english version a lot.. at least the talk they use in written fanfic for i never saw the original (english) film.

The great thing about the gungan folks is their close relation to nature combined with their advanced technological achievements. It would be fine if nowadays people could succeed in developing a similar living style, which preserves nature from being totaly destroyed within the comin ages.

Treefrog
28 October 2002, 12:29 PM
I must give my .02:

When TPM came out, I absolutely dispised Jar-Jar. Anakin, as a typical 10 year old, is an innocent. Although I personally don't agree with him getting such a lucky shot, didn't someone by the name of Luke get a lucky shot also...

After seeing AOTC, I have now revised my opinion of Jar-Jar. I still dislike him (and I still refuse to let my players play Gungans and Ewoks), but the feeling has changed from outright loathing to a more pitying stance. C'mon, you gotta feel sorry for him when he gave the vote that allowed Palpatine to ammass the power to eventually proclaim himself emperor.

Not to mention seeing all of the imperial logos on the clonetroopers and the Jedi starfighter.

Teal Tan Mudds
28 October 2002, 12:55 PM
Comitee for general questions of defense
security level crimson tortoise - now released for military education puposes

The BINKS IDENTITY is an annoying affair. What was meant as a stratagem in the beginning, developed into a back-stroke.
Jar Jar Binks original determination was, to deceive the Naboo about our peoples true strengh, to lull them into security, so we would be able to attack them more effectively lateron.

Binks has been trained on his agent job for a long time. He had had great problems to pretend clumsyness and carelessness convincingly, but finally succeeded in playing his role like it had become a part of his self. He sometimes gave voice to his concern about this mission, which would force him to forever leave his clan, even all his people, but his loyality always dominated his personal interests.

The time to fulfill his mission had arrived and we sent him into the arms of two unsuspecting jedi and our wellprepared agent succeeded to delude them - again and again. Unfortunately a third party had now entered the conflict about Naboo - the trade federation.

Boss Nass decided the defense of Naboo to be more important than the former conflict and our forces gathered into the grand army...

Binks devoted service to our nation shall not be forgotten, although the meant success wasn't reached - the naboo still reign a great part of our wonderful native planet and agent Binks caused a disadvantageous image of the gungan people in performance of his duty, which unfortunately spread all over the galaxy.

It is a heavy burden for our young warriors who must face the so created prejudices on every foreign planet they go to. We, the next generation, will have to work hard to redress the damage done and to adjust the wrong image.

The blocking was released on the above information was released. This text is now commended for the education of our young warriors. (GAF)

"The gungan security service, founded by Broof has already redressed lots of the damage. With the encrease of space travel the truth will spread and hopefully replace the wrong image during the next years." - Gee Tun Mudds