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danielwilkersonlim
5 August 2002, 06:49 PM
What will happen in Episode III? Thus far I have heard of no official or even quasi-official information (indeed, not even rumors) about the content of Episode III, but as a devoted Star Wars fan I would like to make some predictions. These are as follows:

1. Darth Sidious turns out to be Supreme Chancellor (and ultimately emperor) Palpatine. There are a lot of people who already believe that Sidious is Paplaptine. This seems entirely likely, though it could be possible that Lucas is simply allowing us to come to a conclusion only to shock us later on. It would indeed be a surprise to many fans if Sidious and Palpatine turned out to be two different people. Perhaps Palpatine kills Sidous and takes his place as Master of the two alloted Sith (with Anakin - Vader - as his apprentice, of course). However, I'm still betting that Sidious is Palpatine.

2. Darth Tyranus gets killed. This has to happen, since there can only be two Sith at one time. Once Anakin becomes Darth Vader, Tyranus has to be removed from the picture. I'm thinking that Anakin (or Vader) kills Tyranus. Since Episode III will have to reveal how all of the Jedi were destroyed, it is likely that Anakin becomes Darth Vader at least by the middle part of the movie (rather than at the end). It could very well be, then, that Anakin in the form of Darth Vader eliminates old-man Tyranus. Maybe Palpatine, if he is Sidious, accepts Vader as the stronger and welcomes him as a replacement to Tyranus. I wouldn't be surprised if Tyranus develops an agenda of his own that angers Sidious (Palpatine).

3. Mace Windu gets killed. Because he is such an important emblem for the Jedi Order, I'm thinking that Windu will probably get killed in an important fight scene. This would vividly portray the destruction of the Order by the Sith menace. Maybe Vader kills him in a lightsaber duel. Or perhaps Tyranus destroys him. If it ends up being Vader who takes out Windu, it is also possible that Windu is the one who destroys Tyranus. (A drammatic fight scene between Windu and Tyranus would be excellent indeed, provided Windu emerges victorious.)

Well, those are just some of my predictions. I might post more later. I am eager to hear everyone else's speculations for Episode III.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
5 August 2002, 07:13 PM
My thoughts on this can be seen in this thread ----->> Here. (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7164)

I don't feel like typing it up again.

Trigger
5 August 2002, 09:46 PM
episode 3 predictions........my what a can of worms that's opened up. ok, here's what i'd like to see..............................Yoda vs. Dooku round 2........Yoda offs Dooku on dagobah, and the battle leaves Yoda without a ship, forcing him to stay on dagobah and watch the destruction of the Jedi. Obi vs. Anakin halfway through the movie over the volcanoe.....Anakin falls in, becomes Vader, enter James Earl Jones (welcome home!!!!!) Vader vs. Mace Windu (thought Sam will have to have a LOT of combat training to show his truly is the bad mother ****** he's supposed to be). Windu dies, Jedi council falls, and so forth. Padme slaps Anakin silly for turning to the dark side. Palpatine sics Anakin on Darth Sidious (those who havent read mine and Seghast's conspiracy theory, check it out.) and proclaims himself Emperor and begins the Purge, with Vader and the others who have fallen to the dark side as his tools. all of this and more, but im still forming episode 3 in my head. note that all of this is not in order, just things i want to see.

Seghast
5 August 2002, 10:00 PM
Trigger, my friend, your thoughts are so disorganized, I think your train of thought somehow collided with a plane of existence.

The order of how things happen, in my opinion.

Yoda Vs Sidious, on Dagobah. This create the Dark Side cave. I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe Palpatine and Sidious are one in the same. I think Lucas is trying his damndest to throw us all for a loop. Dooku and Yoda, part two, would be nice, but Dooku doesn't strike me as being evil enough yet to create the DarkSide cave with his death. Sidious does.

Anakin and Dooku fight it out, as Palpatine now declares himself a Sith Master, with Anakin as his right hand man. Anakin gives in to the Dark Side to defeat Dooku.

Obi-Wan attempts to bring Anakin back to the light, and the two of them fight it out. The end result being Anakin's metamorphasis into Darth Vader.

Vader, now recognized as a Sith Lord, fights with Mace Windu for a final climactic battle, and defeats him, thus beginning the Purge. At this time, Palpatine announces to the public that he has declared himself Emperor, and is instituting a New Order.

Obi-Wan takes young Luke, who was born sometime in the midst of all the other chaos, to Tattooine to hide him from Vader. Padme takes baby Leia and goes to Alderaan, where she lives out her final years as an honorary member of the royal family there.

Could I be wrong? Very possible. Only Lucas knows for sure. I've lived my life by taking the road less traveled, and if so many people are going to claim that Palpatine and Sidious are one in the same, and Dooku and Yoda will finish things, then this is the road I will take.

If, by some quirk of fate, Episode III proves me to be right, fear not; I won't laugh and say "I told you so."

...it's damned hard to laugh when you're giggling.

Seghast
5 August 2002, 10:09 PM
And, hopefully...

SOMEONE WILL KILL JAR JAR!

Anakin, Dooku, Sidious, or even Obi-Wan going ape×××× again, I don't care. I just want to see him turned into sushi.

Chris Curtis
6 August 2002, 05:54 AM
I believe this thread would more properly belong in the Rumors and Speculation forum.

I, personally, am one of those people who tries not to learn any spoilers for the movies. I realize that what you're discussing here is simply guesswork and speculation, but there is an appropriate forum for that.

Dark72Jedi
8 August 2002, 02:53 PM
Obi-Wan takes young Luke, who was born sometime in the midst of all the other chaos, to Tattooine to hide him from Vader. Padme takes baby Leia and goes to Alderaan, where she lives out her final years as an honorary member of the royal family there.

I would say that the Twins are born in seclusion away from Obi Wan but possibly in the presence of Mace Windu and Yoda. The reason....Obi Wan doesn't seem to know that Leia and Luke are related and this may give Mace Windu that extra OOMPH! to fight Vader/Anakin (or whoever he fights) knowing that the Jedi will be reborn with these twins...if they survive.

FlipDog 2000
8 August 2002, 04:31 PM
Well, the problem occurs that the scene with Obi delivering Luke to the Lars' Homestead. That was an Ep 3 spoiler before Ep. 2 even was close to coming out.

Darth_Baldran
10 August 2002, 03:18 AM
Hi guys!

And what if Windu is the one masking the Dark Side in front of the Jedi Council?

He is in position to do so.

He even is intimate with Yoda, and in AOTC he sneaks behind Tyranus, Fett, and all the others.

Not so Jedi sneaking to kill!!!

IMHO

TIE53
18 August 2002, 11:12 AM
I agree to theories 2 and 3. But I am pretty sure that Darth sidious does NOT turn into emporer Palpatine.

Codym
1 September 2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by TIE53
I agree to theories 2 and 3. But I am pretty sure that Darth sidious does NOT turn into emporer Palpatine.

Interesting coment, but Sidious and Palpatine are one in the same. Lucas says as much on the Episode I dvd.

wolverine
2 September 2002, 08:43 AM
Tyranus learns that padme is preggers, and goes after her. Obi also learns this and is in the process of getting her out of dodge, when anni comes upon the scene of obi and tryanus having it out. he goes balistic and turns to the DS killing tyranus, and obiwan fights anni and puts him in the lava at that time.

Later he deposits a new born son with Lars and takes padme off to alderann with the daughter.

DataEntity2
4 September 2002, 04:31 AM
Palpatine and Sidious are the same person.In Ep.2, it is said a sith controls the republic. Though it is possible there is a huge conspiracy, there is only one movie to go, and a movie can only hold so much. There just isnt room to fit that many twists in the plot. Besides, of what you saw of sidious in Ep.1, it looked like palpatine to me.

powalsh
23 September 2002, 12:35 PM
I believe that Chancelor Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious! Darth Sidious discovered the Kaminoes and their cloning technology and put it to work for himself. He created a clone that he could manipulate in front of the Jedi without their knowledge, because the clone does not truly plan on being evil. At some point Palpatine will be killed and replaced with Sidious and the Jedi, who are the only people who could prove what happened will be hunted to the ends of the earth and killed.
Amidala will live, because Leai tells luke that she has memories of her when she was little. She will be rushed off to Alderan by Jimmy Smits and she will die young of a broken heart. Just a thought.

Tramp
10 October 2002, 02:22 PM
Palpatine and Sidious areone and the same . There is no doubt about it. First, The Emporers rise to power is virtually identical to real life tyrant Adolf Hitler execpt for Palpatine's ability in the Force. When Lucas was still working on TMP he's stated in several interviews that Palpatine was going to be the major villain of the whole prequel trilogy. in other words he is the one manipulating the whole situation behind everyone's backs in order to increase his own power; once again, just like Hitler. In every official record of Palpatine's rise to power, be it the novelizations of the original trilogy, the Essential Guides, the Offical SW Encyclopedia, the EU novels and comics, or Star Wars: the Magic of Myth , they all describe Palpatine as having risen to pwer through manipulation and mastery of the Dark Side while maintaining the Veneer of being a simple senator wanting what's best for the Republic. Didn't any of you notice in TPM that during the funeral for Qui-Gon, that when Yoda and Mace are discussing the Sith, that the camera pans to land on Palpatine when Mace asks "But which was destroyed, the Master or the Apprentice?" That is a clear sign that Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same. Not only that, They're played by the same actor.:rolleyes:

VixenofVenus
10 October 2002, 04:31 PM
Everyone always compares Adolf and Palpy ... but I prefer to think of Palpatine much as I do Julius Caesar.

Caesar was a Senator and a Consul (in the Roman Republic, there were only two consuls, each elected for a one year term, but it was the highest office), while Caesar isn't the first Roman Emperor, he did manipulate the dying Roman Republic into the state where his Step-Son, Octavian (who was later named Augustus, or "he who is revered"), could become the first emperor.

Palpatine has or will claim to be the 'savior of the republic' ... I would not be surprised if he uses those exact words ... the words of Julius Caesar when he was elected dictator in perpatuatis (permanently, or for life).



And before I end this little comparison ... Julius Caesar was killed by his closest friend and student, Brutus ...

Now who killed Palpatine again ... and what was his relationship to Palpatine?

genehow67
21 October 2002, 11:08 AM
seghast wrote:
...
Obi-Wan takes young Luke, who was born sometime in the midst of all the other chaos, to Tattooine to hide him from Vader. Padme takes baby Leia and goes to Alderaan, where she lives out her final years as an honorary member of the royal family there.

I don't know if I'd call that "hiding"; poor Luke was left out in the open, same name, raised at the place where ani buried his mother. With Obi nearby to keep an eye on him. A trap for Vader maybe? I think it was Corran Horn in "I Jedi" that came up with that idea.

Now Leia was hidden, diff planet, new name, adopted into the royal family:raised:

Vreel Kudarin
26 October 2002, 08:52 AM
The comparisons between Palpatine and powerful leaders from the past are fascinating; it's probable that Lucas has drawn upon several different personalities to create the uber-villain that is the Emperor. I totally agree with the comparison to Julius Caesar, and Palpatine's rise to power also closely resembles Hitler's.

I'd like to point out that there is much evidence that Hitler was interested in the occult - which fits in perfectly with the Sith, and Palpatine's collection of ancient artifacts. Also, there is the possibility that the extermination of the Jedi is meant to raise parallels with the Holocaust of the Jews. Perhaps we will see some anti-Jedi propaganda appearing in Episode III. Palpatine's and the Galactic Empire's anti-alien sentiments also mirror the fascist mindset.

Rogue Janson
26 October 2002, 09:44 AM
I hope no-one minds me continuing in this off-topic vein.

I'm not sure how useful all the comparisons with historical figures are - most 20th century tyrants have operated in similar ways.
Personally though, Palpatine seems a bit more like Stalin than Hitler - an unassuming senator who works his way up, controlling the bureacracy and manipulating the senate members. He's certainly not the aggressive, ranting Hitler type in eps II & III. Plus, Palpatine makes out that he is a defender of the current order, rather than a revolutionary like Hitler.
A lot of the bad things the empire does seem justified much more as necessities, in a soviet fashion, rather than on ideological grounds as with Nazism.

I agree that there's likely to be significant anti-jedi feeling coming out in epIII - probably as a backlash to their involvement in the clone wars. I'd be very surprised if we didn't see more of the Empire's ideology coming out in epIII - anti-alien sentiment, centralism, militarism and anti-jedi propaganda.

Vreel Kudarin
26 October 2002, 10:05 AM
Bringing up Stalin, Janson, is a great point - perhaps the Purge of the Jedi has more similarity with Hitler's persecution of Communists, as Communism actually posed a threat to his rule, as the Jedi did to the Emperor's New Order. Also, at first Palpatine makes it appear that he respects the Jedi , which is a little like Hitler's signing of the Non-Aggression Pact with Stalin.

BrianDavion
26 October 2002, 08:34 PM
Palpatine isn't based on any one person IMHO. he is his OWN person./ all dictators come to power in a similer fashion.

trick the people. get supreme power useally by engineering a threat of some sort. purge any elements who could be a threat..

pretty standard

Arcome
21 November 2002, 08:39 AM
I think that Boba Fett will kill Mace, get revenge for his father, you know. I think that Boba Fett will desinigrate Mace, because Darth Vader tell Boba Fett not to desinigrate Han Solo. He makes a very good point to mention that to him too. just my speculation..Arcome

dgswensen
21 November 2002, 09:24 AM
That's a really cool idea Arcome. However, I think that Lucas has said that Boba Fett will only be about 13 in Episode III -- probably too young to be a vicious killer, at least in a PG-rated Star Wars.

Not that he didn't give it a good try in Episode II though -- shooting at Obi-Wan and so forth -- so I could very easily be wrong.

Codym
21 November 2002, 05:14 PM
If Boba gets to kill Mace, it will probably be a "gift" from Dooku or Palpatine. But Arcome's idea does have merit, and it would fit with the continuity perfectly. All we have to do now is figure out who erased the Jedi records on Kamino.

KnightStalker
21 November 2002, 07:57 PM
I think it's fairly obvious who deleted all records of Kamino from the Jedi records....Dooku did it back when he was making his preparations to leave the Jedi Order, just after he began working with Sidious, as well as recruit Jango to be the DNA source for the clone army.

I'm surprised nobody else has pointed this out yet. :D

Codym
21 November 2002, 11:08 PM
So did I, until I heard George Lucas on the Episode II audio commentary. His remarks about the deletion and the creation of the clones ("We have to wait until Episode III to find out how did that") make it sound highly doubtful that it was Dooku, who is otherwise the rather obvious candidate.

rohde
25 November 2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Codym
So did I, until I heard George Lucas on the Episode II audio commentary. His remarks about the deletion and the creation of the clones ("We have to wait until Episode III to find out how did that") make it sound highly doubtful that it was Dooku, who is otherwise the rather obvious candidate.

Exactly! Exactly, I noticed that too. I have this feeling that the revelation of this in Episode III will suprise many people.....or I could be wrong.

Digital Ruse
27 November 2002, 07:19 AM
If I may stretch my legs here a bit.

One thing I would like to see is an idea my Dad presented:

"I think that Count Dooku will be the one that will push Anakin over the edge. It will come down to a fight between them, when Anakin finds out (through Palpy) that he was responsible for Shimi's death. While fighting, Palpy will start to weaken Dooku with the force lightning similar to ROTJ with Luke. Anakin will watch this curiously (Look at Dooku, look at the Emperor, look at Dooku) and then strike Dooku down sending him over the edge. The look of curiousity will be what matters here. It has to look the same as Vader did in ROTJ when he had his "moment of doubt."(Look at Luke, then the Emperor, then Luke again) So what you have here is when you watch ROTJ is that Vader is having that memory of what pushed him over the edge come back to him. That same look of curiosity that you see. Not wanting his son to meet the same fate he tosses the Emporer over the edge, returning him to the light sdie...The circle is complete."

-DR

rohde
27 November 2002, 10:18 AM
That's not a bad idea your dad had there, Digital Ruse, it's coming full circle. I still feel that Obi and Padme needs to have some role in all this tho' There still needs to be a fight between Obi and Ani. It would fit nicely if Ani "took care of" Dooku just like you said, and then met Obi in that damn vulcano to fight him. Or maybe Lucas drops that vulcano stuff altogether....

And by the way, I _need_ to se a TIE fighter in episode III!!!!:D :D

Bombaatu
27 November 2002, 08:24 PM
I think it will be Yoda vs. Dooku, his old Padawan, at the cave on Dagobah.

Padme will see the growing darkness in Anakin and become afraid of him. She will end up turning to Bail Organa and may fall in love with him - remember, Leia thinks of Bail as her father, not as an uncle or family friend.

Palpatine will be pulling Anakin's various strings ("You're more powerful, you are being held back, etc., etc.) to get him to fall further and further to the Dark Side, culminating in his battle with Obi-Wan - reason for battle unknown, but probably related to Padme (she's in hiding, Anakin's demanding to know where, Obi-Wan is refusing to tell him).

Obi-Wan will, of course, take Luke to live with Owen and Beru - this has already been filmed so GL won't have to return to Tunisia.

mojo1701
28 November 2002, 04:11 PM
If anyone has the Peer to Peer download program KaZaA, then you can find the supposed script for Episode III.

Although it does look good, it still might not be real

This is the only spoiler that I will provide you :p , well, except for the fact that it is supposed to be called: Episode III, Fall of the Republic.

search for a document, if you feel like looking for it. It's really Quite good.

The only thing is that the final battle which "Anakin" is at the very beginning, on a planet called Sigma Vulcanus, or something like that. It's a volcano planet.

well, if u want to know the rest, then send me an email, or search for it yourself.

BTW, if anyone is interested in an online MSN campaign, see my post in the Trader's InfoNet for info, or email me at mojo1701@hotmail.com .

Vreel Kudarin
5 December 2002, 10:58 AM
I read somewhere else on the Holonet that a Japanese magazine featured the idea that Dooku will turn out to be Anakin's father. At first I thought this would be a bit of an odd play, throwing out the 'divine conception' concept, but just put it down to wild speculation.

Then I finally got my hands on Episode II to watch again (having only seen it once at the cinema). I can't believe I missed it first time around! - The look of utter sadness on Dooku's face and his sigh when he skillfully removes Anakin's arm says it all. I am certain Dooku is Anakin's father, and this will clearly fit in with the old repeated themes.

Dooku will reveal that he is Anakin's father, and Anakin will fall totally to the Dark Side, and kill him, becoming the next apprentice to Darth Sidious/Palpatine. Second time around, Anakin will (of course) bring balance to the Force, this time choosing the Light Side and killing the Emperor, thus ridding the galaxy of the greatest evil of that age.

Interestingly, does this mean that Dooku sold Shmi into slavery and wiped her mind so that he could cover up his lack of adherance to the Jedi Code? That'd be a pretty nasty thing to do, especially whilst still a member of the Order.

Codym
5 December 2002, 01:02 PM
The thing you just brought up has been discussed here:

http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9854&highlight=father

As it is, I think that look on Dooku's face is more exhaustion from having to face a powerful opponant. Going on the facts of the movie, why would cutting Anakin's arm off faze him? He's just tried to have the kid executed twice by then.

Vreel Kudarin
6 December 2002, 10:26 AM
Thanks for the link, Codym.

Well, I'd imagine it's a lot harder for a father to personally injure his son than it is to order someone else to do it.

I agree with the idea that Dooku could be a bit exhausted from fighting Anakin, but it wasn't that much of a challenge for a Dark Lord of the Sith. Plus Dooku couldn't have been that tired because he went on to fend off Yoda. The four seconds+ shot of Dooku after he slices off Anakin's arm says it all for me. Possibly Lucas is trying to throw a few people off the scent with this, but I don't think he's that subtle. I'm convinced Dooku is Anakin's father, but obviously, that's just my opinion, and we won't know until Episode III. Then one of us gets to say I told you so ; )

Codym
6 December 2002, 03:01 PM
I think taking on the Chosen One is pretty exhausting, especially for a Dark Lord of the Sith. :D

Dooku's fight with Anakin is a lot more serious than his tease-fest with Obiwan, and yes, why he went on to fight Yoda, that does not mean the previous duel didn't take a lot out of him. Exhaustion, even if was momentary catching his breath, seems more plausible that the dad angle - especially since Anakin's lack of father is not mentioned anywhere else in the movie. If this is a major plot point for Episode 3 (which this revelation would have to be) there would have to be more time devoided to this aspect of the character, much like Vader's obsession with Luke was used to foreshadow his revelation in Empire, and Yoda's talk of another forshadowed Leia. And please remember, Luke spent most of Jedi dealing with this information, where as Anakin would have to shrug it off and join the darkside in the space of a few minutes.

From my point of view, for Dooku to suddenly be reveled as Anakin's father would seem like a twist for twist sake, rather than part of the story. So until Episode 3 proves one of us wrong, all evidence points me to believe Anakin has no father.

Anyway, after some careful thought, here are some of my predictions for Episode III:

1. Anakin will not kill any Jedi in Episode III (with the possible exception of Dooku.) I don't believe he kills any Jedi until after he becomes Darth Vader, and I think this will only happen after the climatic duel with Obiwan. Up until that point, Anakin will just be very, very angry, but still basically good. Well, probably self-rightious rather than good.

2. Yoda will convincingly disappear, probably by faking his death. He needs to get out from under Palpatine's gaze for him to peacefully live on Dagobah, and Palpatine is too smart just to let the great master just disappear. If George uses Zahn's threoy about the darkside stain in cave, Yoda may kill Dooku their and use the null effect to hide from Palpatine.

3. Padme will become pregnant, and head to Alderaan. Anakin will know she is pregnant, but not know its twins. Obiwan will eventually take Luke to Tatooine, and Bail Organa will claim Leia as his own.

4. Palpatine will declare himself Emperor for "the good of the people" as the republic fails to move quick enough in the aftermath of the Clone war. He will also have the destruction of the Jedi "forced upon him". He will also reveal himself as Darth Sidious, but I'm not sure who to -probably to the badly wounded Anakin.

5. The Jedi Council dies. This will probably be the most we'll see of the purge, with most of it happening off screen during the period between Episode 3 and 4. The order to do it, however, will be given onscreen, and the Jedi temple will most like be destroyed.

6. Mace or Ki-Adi will be revealed as an unwitting pawn of Palpatine's, and will have been the ones to order the clones and erase certain files from the archives. They will not be darkside or sith tainted, just gulible. My bet is on Mace at the moment, just for the thematic use of shadows in many of his scenes.

7. The new Empire, at the very end of the movie, will be announced.

Vreel Kudarin
7 December 2002, 01:47 AM
I fully agree with most of the predictions that you have made, Codym. However, I don't think Dooku had very much trouble at all defeating the arrogant padawan 'Chosen One', it's over very quickly. Anakin may well be the 'Chosen One' of prophecy, destined to (eventually) bring balance to the Force, but now I think the whole "He has no father," is from a Certain Point of View. He effectively has no father, as no-one knows, and indeed, the Jedi seem fine with Shmi's story. "MANY OF THE TRUTHS WE CLING TO DEPEND GREATLY ON OUR OWN POINT OF VIEW."

The one thing I'm betting on for Episode III is that Dooku will be revealed as Anakin's true father, and Anakin will slay him (possibly because he's responsible for selling Shmi into slavery). I think it's much more likely that Lucas has gone for the one ultimate theme of Star Wars to run through the entire saga, rather than Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku being a bit tired after dispatching a headstrong padawan. Especially after the myriad repeated themes crammed into Attack of the Clones.

Dooku slices off his son's arm, but is in turn killed himself by Anakin, who takes his place. Anakin/Darth Vader cuts off his son's hand, but is confronted and has his own hand cut off; however, he is brought back to the light this time, and brings balance to the Force by ending the Sith line. But that's just my own point of view.

Reed
2 January 2003, 03:33 PM
I disagree that Count Dooku is Anakin's father. C'mon, do you honestly believe that George is so stupid that he'll try to repeat the same things over again. Do you know how many people will just walk out of the theater after the scene that would reveal this (I would be one of them). It's unwise on a money-making level and in story telling.

From what I've heard, on the AOTC DVD George Lucas talks a bit about some of the major plot elements in Episode III. He says that a huge battle at the beginning of the movie will end the Clone Wars. He also said that in AOTC when Anakin is killing the Tusken Raiders and the scene switches to Yoda meditating, you can hear Qui-Gon Jinn's voice saying "Anakin, no!", GL states that this is the first time in the history of the Jedi Order that someone has had contact with a Jedi who has passed on. He also stated that this will have a major role in Episode III and we'll get an explaination for why Obi-Wan and Yoda disappear when they die and Qui-Gon and all the Jedi you see die in AOTC don't disappear.

It seems to me that the next movie is going to focus a lot more on the Jedi than anything else. TPM focused on the re-emergence of the Sith and the discovery of the Chosen One. AOTC focused on the Republic falling apart. Episode III will focus on the Jedi, the Force, and more likely the prophecy of the One who will bring Balance to the Force. These examples continue with the Original Trilogy as well. ANH focuses on exactly what the title says, A New Hope, GL said the Episode III will end on an apocalyptic note so it fits. ANH is about the beginning of a new hope for the galaxy and Luke discovering part of his destiny. ESB focuses on Luke's training and his possible destiny (will he follow the same path as his father or will he do what his father could not, bring Balance to the Force). ROTJ is about exactly what the title says as well. It focuses on the return of the Jedi and redemption. The Jedi return not only through Luke but through Anakin as he turns from his dark path and kills the Emperor fulfilling the prophecy. Voila! The full story is complete and Anakin is revealed to actually have been the Chosen One but doomed to forever be seen as the destroyer of worlds (kind of sad).

But now to step away from my ramble. What do you think about the transition between Clone Troopers to Storm Troopers. Will it be merely a costume change or something more. I personally think that their will be a defect in the Clones or a failsafe of some sort that will lead them to be replaced by regular humans. Stormies are to human to be clones. They converse with each other, seems like an odd thing to do if you're both the same person. Plus there commanders aren't clones, seems it would be more efficient to take the best commander and clone him rather than have just a whole bunch of mediocre ones and a select few of good ones. Perhaps the fact that clones can reproduce will have some involvement. Cloning technology is lost, and selective breeding comes into play. This can attribute to the fact that Stormies suck at shooting. Jango's genes just get really watered down after so many years. The clones do age twice as fast.

Sorry for taking so long. The Clones VS. Stormies debate has been bugging me for ages.

Grim Fantango
2 January 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Seghast
And, hopefully...

SOMEONE WILL KILL JAR JAR!


Amen, Seg.

But then again, I donno dude, the way George is getting, Jar Jar will live somehow and take over the universe....nah, but i don't think Jar Jar will die. Frick,
George might even make him Jedi if he wants...now there's a scary thought....

Vreel Kudarin
3 January 2003, 03:59 AM
I'm also keen to learn the link between Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers. The Clone Wars don't seem so epic if they're only two years long, but I suppose they need to be ended soon so Palpy can start doing away with the Jedi proper (I assume many will die fighting the seperatists, especially after the revelation in Episode II that the Jedi ability to use the Force has "diminished" in recent years). One thing I really want resolved then, if Episode III will focus even more on the Jedi, is that age-old conundrum.......MIDICHLORIANS.

I can imagine people not liking Dooku being the father if it turned out that way once we get to the cinemas, but then how did Lucas ever imagine he could get away with midichlorians? That surely was an anti-fan-and-money-making move if ever there was one?

At first when I considered the idea of Dooku being Anakin's father, I didn't like it, but the more I thought about it, the more I saw how it would make sense with the element of repeated themes that Lucas uses (the death of the Jedi master and the destruction of big nasty thing using proton torps at the start of each trilogy being a prime example). And it would be the ULTIMATE repeated theme. Obviously it wouldn't have the emotional impact of Darth Vader's revelation to Luke, but I think it would make sense.

Recently however, I've seen the Art of Episode II book, which has lot's of concept sketches and paintings for Sidious's new Sith 'apprentice' which was originally going to be a really scary shaven-headed, white-skinned Human female wearing armour, still with the curved lightsaber blade though. (she would have been much more terrifying than Dooku!) In one drawing she had the classic two lightsabers. This would suggest that it was at least not originally planned for the new Sith apprentice to be Anakin's father. Having said this, I think there is strong evidence for both views, and I can't wait to find out the answer.

For Dooku being the father: He looks really sad after lopping off Anakin's arm; repeated themes are a key factor in Star Wars films; it would make the plot even more epic; Virgin Birth could conceivably be from a 'certain point of view'.

Against Dooku being father: The prophecy of the Chosen One [of Virgin Birth] (Hopefully Lucas will explain this properly in Episode III along with midichlorians); The female Sith apprentice concept art for Episode II.

Rogue Janson
4 January 2003, 04:05 AM
Right, my predictions of things I think will definitely/almost certainly happen.

The clone wars will end - having a climactic end of clone wars battle at the start of the film certainly makes sense to me. The one problem I have with it is that is that it leaves open the role of 'visible organised villains' for the rest of the film.
Anakin will duel Obi-Wan and fall into a molten pit. If there is no molten pit involved I will walk out the cinema. Also presumably there must be circumstances which force Obi-Wan to leave Anakin there.
Palpatine will declare himself Emperor pretty much vital for story purposes, I don't think you could have him as chancellor of the Republic in epIII and then suddenly Emperor of the Empire in epIV.
Palpatine will reveal himself as Darth Sidious - again, I think it's crucial for story purposes. I agree withCodym it will most likely be to Anakin, but check out Bombaatu's post in this (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10565&pagenumber=2) thread for an intriguing idea of who else might know. Actually I think it's going to be fairly obvious to the jedi that Palpatine is a Sith Lord once he gets going as Emperor.
Mace Windu will die - he can't really be left alive at the end of the film. He's not a central character, but he's important enough to have a dramatic death scene.
Yoda will go into hiding - again, Codym's idea that he will fake his own death makes sense.
Padme will become pregnant - I don't believe Anakin will know, though it's hard to tell either way. Clearly Anakin won't know it's twins (otherwise the line in RotJ would be "So, you have a twin sister. I always thought you had a twin brother").
Obi-Wan will at least make preparations for hiding the children - one of the tidbits on the epII DVD is that there is one shot of the Lars homestead used in epIII. I'm guessing this is the context.
Dooku will be killed - I would say this is almost certainly by Anakin. It gives him something dramatic to do and would be a strong recurring theme of killing the previous apprentice and taking their place (whether or not dooku is anakin's father). I don't really see it being Yoda in the Dagobah cave - although it would be nice if Dooku tracked him there - it's not really a very good location and Yoda fighting Dooku a second time doesn't seem right.
Oh, and I'd be surprised if the Death Star wasn't in there somewhere, since they stuck it in epII, but I have no idea where.

I bet I've missed a bunch of story elements, but anyway.

The following planets will obviously be in the film:
Coruscant - well what did you expect?
Tatooine - very very briefly.

As for other planets, there were quite a few in AotC so there could be in epIII as well:

Naboo is a possibility, because it's a nice place, although it doesn't seem to be essential to the plot.
Alderaan is another possible, since Padme needs to end up there. However I think Lucas may have used up his quote of beautiful pastoral planets with Naboo, so all the business could be resolved with Bail Organa on Coruscant.

Then there has to be some planet for the clone wars battle, this will most likely be a new one and one for Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight. They could easily be the same place, although this would involve getting the characters back there, or making them stay there for a significant period of time.

I have an ominous feeling that neither midi-chlorians nor the 'prophecy of the chosen one' will be explained any further, since they didn't really come up in AotC. And I don't think Dooku is Anakin's father, there's a difference between having a father and not having one that can't really be explained away as "a certain point of view".
I'm undecided about the place of bounty hunters in epIII. Personally I don't see Boba Fett having a role, apart from the fact I think he'd be rather young. I think he'll probably be left as a surprise for ESB (I hope I haven't spoilt it for anyone). Also any serious action from him would make his poor performance in RotJ look even more implausible.
I think it was Dooku who erased information from the jedi archives and ordered the clone army. I don't think this was done by any jedi still in the order, I don't think even Sidious could dupe someone into erasing data, ordering a clone army (and presumably bringing in Jango using the name Darth Tyranus) and keeping it all secret, all with good intentions. And he certainly couldn't do it to Mace Windu, I think if anything, the thematic use of shadows Codym mentions indicate a troubled future for Mace and the jedi order rather than some personal problem.

For some discussion about stormtroopers and clonetroopers, go to this (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10919) thread. I'd say we probably won't see full blown stormtroopers, but we will see the clonetroopers coming under Palpatine's personal control.

I, and a lot of other people, would like to see a major space battle in epIII, since we haven't had a proper one yet in the prequels (the naboo vs trade federation doens't count). In favour of it: it would firmly establish Anakin's credentials as "the best fighter pilot in the galaxy", and it would give GL some more chances to get in some symbolic dagger shaped ships. On the downside, there may not be a pace to put it. The opening battle could be a space one, but then you might lose the feeling of the clone wars. Also, the space battle could be simultaneous with a ground battle. Lucas certainly isn't shy of running two (or more) action sequances at once, but he may not want to do it so early in the film. Having a space battle later on would beg the question of who the opponents would be.

Oh, one final plot point:
Jar Jar Binks is revealed as Sith Lord Darth Bombad.

Digital Ruse
4 January 2003, 06:55 AM
Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't the "explanation" for the lesser technology in the Classic Era "blamed" on the Emperor hoarding technology and people basically having to start from relative stratch? I had always heard that rumor myself. Figured if this is the case they may need to explain that for good in Ep.III.

-DR

Vreel Kudarin
4 January 2003, 07:40 AM
I don't think the level of technology is meant to be any different, it's simply a very different design philosophy. It says this much in the prequel Cross-sections books. In the prequel era (or at least at the start of it), there had been peace for so long, that vessels and technologies were designed much more with art, craft and style in mind.

Once the Civil War begins, mass-produced vessels start to take over. No-one is interested in style any more, they just want functionality. A prime example are the individually produced Naboo Royal ships, and then things like Star Destroyers and Y-Wings. They have a very artificial appearance, inelegant, designed specifically for war. We see this with the Acclamators in Episode II, they are clearly the forerunners to Victory and Imperial Class Star Destroyers.

mojo1701
4 January 2003, 10:10 AM
I also have to add 2 more elements:

1. The Anakin/Obi-Wan fight will occur at the beginning on a volcano planet (I have called it Sigma Vulcanus, because I really like that name)

2. The Jedi see that the Republic has been crumbling, and look for a lost Jedi artifact, that could unite the galaxy, but Palpatine also searches for it (I have used this idea in an old Infinities campaign of mine, and called it a Kaibur Crystal, because one of the aliens I made up was an ancient race called the Kai, and I'll have stats as soon as I can submit ;))

Rogue Janson
4 January 2003, 10:37 AM
The concept and I believe the name of "Sigma Vulcanis" comes from an early version of Return of the Jedi, where the final battle took place in a volcanic chamber. I think it was going to be a moon of coruscant (or whatever the capital world would have been). Whether or not Lucas wants to recycle that concept I don't know.

mojo1701
4 January 2003, 11:45 AM
Really? I didn't know there was an earlier version of RotJ.

mojo1701
4 January 2003, 11:48 AM
And on the topic of Gungans, I believe that they are wiped out in Episode III. Just because Gungans were originally introduced, I believe, for the younger viewers, just like Chewie was for the original trilogy.

And R2-D2 and C-3P0.

Grim Fantango
4 January 2003, 07:04 PM
DEF DEF DEF DEF!!!

Ah, def to all Gungans, they are the worst thing to happen to Sci-Fi since Babylon 5 ended (And to those anti-Babylon 5 fans, the show was awesome, what Sci-Fi was meant to be. And yes, you suck.)

Reed
6 January 2003, 05:22 PM
One thing you all must think of is GL's method of storytelling in a Star Wars film. He always does the same thing in every Episode.

1) The beginning will introduce the present situation and will have a period of action (examples: TPM -- Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon on the Trade ship, AOTC -- Obi-Wan and Anakin's chase after Zam Wessel, ANH -- The boarding of Tantive IV, ESB -- The battle of Hoth, ROTJ -- Han Solo's rescue)

2) The "meat" of the Star Wars films is always plot development with occasion brief action sequences.

3) Then the climax of the movie ending in a huge battle, the only exception to this is ESB which has a more personnal ending.

George Lucas said himself that Episode III is going to be a lot different from the other episodes, primely because of its exceptionally dark atmosphere, but also in its presentment. I'll give a run down as to how I think the film may play out.

1) We will be introduced to the present situation as "a time of great unrest in the galaxy" or something like that. We'll probably have some brief scenes to lead up to the battle that will end the Clone Wars. (George said that the Clone Wars will end close to the beginning of the movie then take on a more personnal storyline, much like ESB) The battle will be huge! Probably the largest and most expansive we've ever seen. Something along the lines of the Battle of Endor. We'll get to see Obi-Wan as a general (probably with Bail Organa on a Republic cruiser). Mace Windu more likely leading the ground forces (GL said that Mace's role will be even more pivotal in this one; he'll be nearly as important as Obi-Wan) and Anakin probably in a starfighter as a wing commander (It'll be cool to hear the name "commander Skywalker" again). It may seem out of place to have a huge battle this early in the film but if you look at ESB the battle of Hoth was the largest battle iin the movie.

2) The movie will take on a more personnal atmosphere (ala ESB). Things will more likely focus on the Jedi. We'll probably be seeing lots of anti-Jedi propaganda from the beginning of the movie. We'll get to see how being at war since the Clone Wars began has taken its tole on the Jedi, and Obi-Wan and Anakin more specificly. Especially Anakin because he'll have been in the thick of the action, unable to attend to his wife very often. Bail Organa may even be "putting the moves on Padme". (this is where I thought the perfect scenario to be the catalyst to Anakin snapping) Padme will have already been experiencing Anakin's darker side (I would like to see a scene where he almost hits her but storms off realizing what he nearly did) She'll be afraid of him at this point and she'll go to Obi-Wan for guidance. Obi-Wan discovers she's pregnant and Obi-Wan will advise her not to tell Anakin. (They'll both be afraid of what is going to happen with Anakin at this point) Anakin will discover Padme's pregnant and will confront her. Padme will be afraid of what he may do, so she'll try to push him away. Eventually she'll resort to telling him that the child (no one knows its twins yet, she's still early in the pregnancy I would think at this point) is Bail Organa's. This is where Anakin goes ballistic and will try to kill Bail (guess who'll be there to stop him) Obi-Wan will intercede and attempt to talk sense into his apprentice. The battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan will happen. (I have heard it said by George himself that he was originally going to use the lava planet idea, but has thought that something new and different is more fitting) Whatever happens the end results in Obi-Wan assuming Anakin's dead.

3) During this whole thing Palpatine will have been discovered to be Darth Sidious (probably be Mace Windu), but before the Jedi can react Palpatine will proclaim himself Emperor and will begin his rule by eliminating "that which was the cause of all of the Republic's problems", the Jedi. The Jedi will attempt an escape from Coruscant. Many Jedi will be killed by the rioting city folk and insurmountable numbers of clonetroopers (probably stormtroopers at this point) but a large group of Jedi will narrowly escape, Mace and Yoda among them. Mace, Yoda, and what remains of the Council will rendez-vous with Obi-Wan and Bail Organa on Naboo. The Jedi will discuss the fate of the Skywalker twins.

4) A large Imperial force will show up on Naboo, lead by a mysterious man named Darth Vader (I wonder who it is :D ). Padme will be prepared to give birth at this point. Obi-Wan, Bail and Mace will stay with Padme while the rest of the Jedi (Yoda in the lead of course) make their last stand against this vast army approaching Theed Palace. As the Jedi fight and die to protect the last hope of the Jedi (the Skywalker twins obviously -- still probably not known to be twins yet) Padme will give birth to Luke, then Leia will be born and they'll realize that Leia has the natural ability to remain almost invisible in the Force (this explains why Vader never sensed her on the Tantive IV in ANH). When the Jedi are nearly decimated Yoda will contact Mace and Obi-Wan through the Force or something and tell them to get the hell out of there. Yoda will appear to die, but as you and me all know, he doesn't. Vader (The Vader we see here probably won't be the fully armoured one we see in the OT) will enter the palace and both Mace and Obi-Wan will snap to a realization that this presence is familiar. Obi-Wan and Mace will go meet this new Sith warrior and attempt to slow him down while Bail escapes with Padme and the twins. Obi-Wan and Mace will fight Vader in a duel similar to Duel of the Fates. Eventually Vader will utilize two lightsabers, one being his new red one, the other Anakin's blue one. During the battle Mace and Obi will realize it is Anakin they are fighting. Obi-Wan will somehow get Anakin's original lightsaber and Mace will tell Obi-Wan to get out of there with a line like "your destiny lies on a different path from mine" sort of deal. Obi-Wan will escape, possibly fending off tons of stormies with two lightsabers while Mace attempts to keep Vader at bay. By the time Obi gets to his jedi starfighter, Mace will be slain. Yoda will show up, possibly badly wounded and the two of them will escape as Vader enters the hangar.

5) This part will consist of tying up loose ends. Yoda will get to Dagobah, Obi-Wan takes Luke, and Leia will be left with Padme and Bail. I think as a way to sum things up there should be a time lapse of maybe 2-3 years then we will be given a 10 minute conclusion. It will be shown in probably 3 scenes.
-- A 3 year old Leia holding the hand of a heart broken Padme as she dies
-- A scene with the Emperor sitting on a throne, the fully armored Darth Vader we all know and love will walk up from behind him and present the lightsaber of another fallen Jedi. The Emperor will take the saber and put it amongst a collection of thousands upon thousands of lightsabers. A cryptic sequence would be a close up shot of Yoda and Mace Windu's lightsabers in the center of the collection. Also it would be cool to have them turn to look off a balcony at the construction of the Death Star.
-- The final scene will show a little Luke Skywalker playing out in the middle of the Lars' homestead yard when its dark. He'll stop to look out in the distance to see a hooded figure watching him from afar. Obi-Wan will say some things to himself, "You may be the last hope for us all, young one" or something like that and Luke will be called inside by Aunt Beru.

THE END

That's my 75 dollars and 2 cents on it all. I got a little carried away and got probably overly specific and missed some major points like Palpatine making Anakin his apprentice and Count Dooku's death but otherwise I think this is a decent plotline for Episode III.

RoyalGuard
11 January 2003, 02:30 AM
My take on the climatic scene of the film (occurs about a 1/3 of the way through):

Cut to: Palpatine's Personal Chambers.
Enter: Anakin, sweating profusely and looking slightly on edge.
(Palpatine's chair, which had been facing away from Anakin, slowly rotates towards him. Sitting on the chair, Sith robes coiled about him, is Darth Sidious!)
Anakin: "Ah, the Sith master, die!"
Sidious: (chuckles) "So much anger my young Apprentice, you're progressing splendidly... (chuckles)."
Anakin: "Your Apprentice?!? I am not your Apprentice! I am a Jedi!"
Sidious: (stepping over senator Palpatine's charred corpse - it is obvious that he was a clone) "Really? Then you attach yourself to a weak and dieing tradition, young Jedi... Does the council listen to you? Had they heard your insights and given you more important tasks the clone wars would have ended long ago... had they not been so attached to tradition they would have forseen that you and Padme deserved each other!"
Anakin: (confused) "Well..."
Sidious: "I have been your only friend here! It was I who arranged for Qui-Gon to find you. It was I who gave you access to my ancient tomes, tomes that Yoda himself did not deem you ready for! Who has supported you? Who has always been there for you? Who will now reveal to you the identity of your father!?" (The word father is spat out, like an insult)
Anakin: "My father?!? I had no father!"
Sidious: "Bah, you have known that to be a lie for as long as I have! Your father, who wiped the mind of your mother, and sold her into slavery, was none other than..."
(Sidious' rant is cut off by the door chiming, and Jar Jar bumbling in)
Jar Jar: "Yousa wanna see me Chancellor? Annie! I nosa expecta yousa here!"
Anakin: "Bastard! Die!"
Jar Jar: "Mesa gonna di..." (Jar Jar's "comic" last words are cut off as Anakin fries him with lightning)
Sidious: "Anakin, no! Jar Jar was my unwitting pawn in the Republic's destruction! Responsible in part for the clone wars! Dooku was your father! Idiotic, early Gungan!"
Anakin: "Jar Jar, what have I done? DOOKU! MY FATHER?!? NOOO...

and so on and so forth...

Krad-edis
11 January 2003, 03:24 AM
originally posted by Reed:Vader (The Vader we see here probably won't be the fully armoured one we see in the OT)

This would be awesome, and I like your outline! I can imagine a young man with a dark hood and cloak (wearing black armor underneath) moving through a battlefield on Naboo with hundreds of Stormtroopers at his back, as they pave their way through the remaining Jedi. This "unknown warrior" will be seen fighting a Jedi Knight or Master and get struck in his "black gauntleted arm", and the blade will harmlessly slide off. He will be like nothing the Jedi have seen before, and will be unstoppable with an army of Stormie behind him.

Rogue Janson
11 January 2003, 03:43 AM
I have read that Anakin will put on the infamous black armour for the first time at some point in the prequels (and by a process of elimination that means epIII). Whether or not this will turn out to be true, I dont know.

I suppose it might depend on how the narrative between the prequels and the OT works. If you see anakin put on the armour, you know he's darth vader, and therefore when watchign the OT you know Vader is Luke's father. If you don't see it, you may not know who Vader is, and the revelation that he's luke's father can come as a surprise.

Reed
13 January 2003, 10:41 AM
I believe that we will only see the fully black armored Darth Vader close to the end of the movie. I think we may see a much more cybernetic looking Anakin for a while.

I have been playing with the idea that Anakin is part of the Jedi Purge before he needs the big black suit. What do any of you think?

satavenger
13 January 2003, 01:17 PM
Ah, speculation...

Not too much here, just some tidbits to throw in.

We see obvious lava on Coruscant in Episode II.

The Emperor's throne room in ROTJ is an exact duplicate of the Jedi Temple towers.

George will do whatever George wants and we will pay $9 bucks and then splurge for the big bucket of buttered popcorn twice within a week.

My one specualtion - As an homage to lame death scenes (Boba and the Sarlacc), Mace Windu will be bumped into by Jar Jar Binks, who was carrying the Skywalker TRIPLETS (the other may or may not be Gambit) and falls into a giant lava pool. The splattered lava strikes Anakin who's all like, "Dude that's all hot and stuff!" Padme, not being able to contain her laughter will hurt Anakin's feelings so bad that he will turn to the dark side.

Also I think that Mace Windu may actually be the father of Luke Skywalker, not Darth Vader, as was rumored from previous films.

SAT

Jeskan
13 January 2003, 01:25 PM
I believe that early in the movie, Windu will die at the hands of Dooku in a battle.

Rogue Janson
14 January 2003, 03:03 AM
Also I think that Mace Windu may actually be the father of Luke Skywalker, not Darth Vader, as was rumored from previous films.
oh, it's funny on so many levels. Surely GL should know better than to start scurrilous rumours like that.

Dark Orbit
12 February 2003, 06:15 PM
here's what I think

1. Palpy is Sid
Dooku said a Sith Master was controlling the council...enought said

2. A big battle
either Republic vs. Seperatists; or Palpy's "Republic" vs. Jedi. Of course, the Republic will put up another stupid blockade with no fighters to block any escaping vessels, and Yoda, Obi-wan/Ben, possibly Padme, Luke and Leia will escape

3. Jar Jar will die
I have been hoping and praying for 3 long years... dont let me down George
(by the way, JJ is the root cause for the entire 2nd trilogy; he said to the senate that they should give emergency powers to Palpy... need i say more?

4. The Death Star "Prototype" will appear
What would Starwars be if there wasn't a "form" of the Death Star and its "Superlaser" present. I think Palpy will destroy Naboo, all the Gungans (hooray!) and all the Naboobians also, maybe even Padme (ha ha ha)

5. Skywalker will have another psychotic episode
Ever since "the one" went psycho in last episode, I have been hoping for another round of him contridicting everyone and killing a lot...maybe even Jar Jar.

6.Palpy will clone himself
I think that would be interesting to see, its not that impossible.

7. Jedi will fly...
Dead into neat piles. After the majority of Jedi showcasing no real skills besides the knack for catching a laser between the forehead, I think they will be eliminated in one big battle.

Silent
13 February 2003, 07:01 AM
Mmmmm, I think i'd like some kind of big space battle myself, seeing as we didn't have one in the last movie and the one before that wasn't too good anyway. Obi says in ANH that Anakin was a great starfighter pilot and I'd like to see that happen in the movie, hopeully in a little better style than his bumbling in TPM! Maybe we'll even get to see a cameo of Tarkin in this movie too, since he plays such a big role in the next movie, and maybe a nice few scenes of Boba Fett as he grows up and starts taking his vengance (maybe knocking off Mace, if he's old enough). Personally, I think that it would really work well on a dramatic level if Anakin accidentally kills Padme himself (after the twins, of course), precipitating his fall to the Dark Side. Maybe if he's given the job of blowing up a capital ship by the Emperor, and it happens to have Amidala on board...

Rogue Janson
13 February 2003, 12:31 PM
Personally, I think that it would really work well on a dramatic level if Anakin accidentally kills Padme himself (after the twins, of course), precipitating his fall to the Dark Side.
Not going to happen because, remember, Leia says in RotJ that she remembers her mother. So Padme has to survive epIII (except in the very unlikely event it extends for a few years after the twins' birth).

Reed
13 February 2003, 02:01 PM
There have been a number of recent news items I have read that have given some major hints as to some things that are going to happen.

1) I read that Ewan McGregor(Obi-Wan) and Hayden Christensen(Anakin) have been training for nearly a year now for a (this is an exact quote from McGregor) "duel to end all duels". This is obviously referring to when Obi-Wan and Anakin fight, sounds to me like it may be the coolest saber duel of all the episodes.

2) Samuel L. Jackson(Mace Windu) has said that he has already been called in by the stunt coordinator for Episode III to work out a few things. From what else Sam's says its sounds a lot like its about his dramatic death scene, perhaps we will see him go down in a big blaze of glory.

3) George Lucas himself has said that Boba Fett is going to have pretty much the same kind of role he did in AOTC. This means that he is almost definitely not killing off Mace Windu, (sorry all you Boba lovers out there)

4) At a press conference with James Earl Jones(voice of Darth Vader) he was asked if he was going to have any involvement in Episode III, and he answered that he has about 5 minutes worth of dialogue "...after Anakin falls into a volcano. This is by far the most interesting tidbit because it means that the black suited Vader will only be in the movie for probably the last 15-20 minutes of the film. It also means that the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin is going to happen at the climax of the film. It seems likely that Anakin will turn to the dark side somewhere around the middle of the movie because I remembered a line from ROTJ that Vader says to Luke when Luke turns himself in:

Luke: "I've accepted that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."
Vader: "That name, no longer has anymore meaning for me."
Luke:"It is only the true form of yourself you have only forgotten."
Vader turns away from Luke
Luke: "Come with me"
silence
Vader:"Obi-Wan once thought as you do. pause You don't know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master."

So in it makes sense for Anakin to turn to the dark side fairly early in the film because there has to be a period where Obi-Wan tries to bring Anakin back, but eventually Anakin snaps and BAM in comes the greatest and most anticipated lightsaber duel of all time. The one thing I really want to know is how exactly will Anakin turn.

5) George has also stated that Luke and Leia will be infants in the film, which means that Padme will definitely die during Episode III, probably at the very end of the movie. I think that the twins will more likely be born around the same time Anakin turns. Wouldn't it be cool if they kept flashing between Anakin turning and Padme giving birth, that would be drama!

Krad-edis
15 February 2003, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by Reed
George has also stated that Luke and Leia will be infants in the film, which means that Padme will definitely die during Episode III, probably at the very end of the movie. I think that the twins will more likely be born around the same time Anakin turns. Wouldn't it be cool if they kept flashing between Anakin turning and Padme giving birth, that would be drama!

I think that Leia said she remembered her mother to be sad (ROTJ when Luke was getting ready to leave to confront Vader)...that is when Luke asked what her mother was like because he had never met her.

Leia remembered her mother vaguely, so I am guessing that Padme either dies of a broken heart (severe depression, loss of will to live because true love becomes an evil Force Frankenstein), or is killed in some conflict off scene in between Episodes III and IV. I really don't know how much a newborn infant could really remember about their mother if she died before Leia could determine what "looking and feeling sad" would be and look like. Other than that, you have had some really good observations, and I would like to see a lot of what you say happen.

Reed
19 February 2003, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by Kred-edis
Leia remembered her mother vaguely, so I am guessing that Padme either dies of a broken heart (severe depression, loss of will to live because true love becomes an evil Force Frankenstein), or is killed in some conflict off scene in between Episodes III and IV. I really don't know how much a newborn infant could really remember about their mother if she died before Leia could determine what "looking and feeling sad" would be and look like.

I think its very possible that Leia could remember Padmé to a degree. Even though she is an infant, the Force may give her a special connection to her mother. She does say that she only remembers images and feelings. That seems likely an infant could remember those sorts of things. Plus she may not understand some of the feelings at the time but as she grows up, she could then be able to identify them.

It's still up for debate but I do think that Padmé will die in Episode III. It possibly be one of the last scenes of the movie, to end on a sad note. George did say that EVERYONE except for Yoda and Obi-Wan is going to die.

Reed
19 February 2003, 09:05 AM
Could some of you please give me some votes, I've been a New Player since I joined the forums.

Please, pretty pretty please. You know you want to. Somebody please show me love. :(

Jericho_Narcas
19 February 2003, 10:09 AM
I just want to know why some people think Palpatine is a clone? That just doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone make a clone of themself, to do something that they can do on their own to begin with?

Don't be fooled by Palpatine's 'Mr. Nice Guy' routine -- the man is pure evil. He's Darth Sideous, and that's all there is to it. I know, because in addition to watching the original trilogy, I've also read the books.

Rogue Janson
19 February 2003, 11:04 AM
Padme has to either die in epIII or there has to be some reason why she is unlikely to survive very long. Otherwise, theoretically, she could still be alive during the OT - no-one actually says she's dead.

As for who or why, it's difficult to speculate, but if they still play a part in the film - I suspect they will as it would make them consistent villains - the Trade Federation are her major enemy.

Reed, no-one can vote for you anymore because the rating system's been shut down. I think you need 50 posts to graduate from "new" to "experienced" player, so get posting.

Codym
19 February 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Reed

It's still up for debate but I do think that Padmé will die in Episode III. It possibly be one of the last scenes of the movie, to end on a sad note. George did say that EVERYONE except for Yoda and Obi-Wan is going to die.

I'm pretty sure that's only referring to Jedi. Padme may die but its a real long shot at this time. The section in ROTJ would support that she survives the movie, simply because it would be too hard to adequetely explain the Force connection in a short space of time.

Perhaps, however, Padme will meet Darth Vader in the closing minutes of the film, with her as Bail Organa's new wife. She senses who he really is and discovers her husband is not dead, as she was most likely led to believe, but much worse off. This could be the thing that ultimately causes her to die, of a broken heart.

Only time will tell.

Fole™
20 February 2003, 08:40 AM
I think at the very least we will see leia as an infant. maybe luke and leia will be toddlers by the end of the movie(im thinking like youngling age... you should know who the younglings are!).


I do have the suspicion that dooku will fight yoda on dagobah, and yoda will go into his whupass mode and show doku whos boss. i kinda get that from reading the thrawn trilogy. Luke goes back to dagobah in Heir to the Empire to get that beacon and it goes back to the story of yoda having to kill that dark jedi. the way that it is playing out is that dooku has a score to settlewith yoda, that he really believes that he can accomplish it.


of course, the thrawn trilogy does have its wrong points. it says that after the first death star was destroyed was when darth vader lost his hand, if you'll check up on dark force rising to find that. it was, however, before the prequels came out, but i was still led to believe that the thrawn trilogy was authorized to be a continuation of the story(as i would imagine all of the lucasarts books should be). so maybe GL should check up on his stories? why would he authorize something without first reading it? or perhaps he forgot? in any case, the hand really is a minor detail...

ShmobyKnight89
5 March 2003, 11:55 AM
I seem to have figured something. Dooku orders the army for his his master. He orders the army and guess who gets it....Chancellor Palpatine, who (in my opinion) is Darth Sidious. The clone army and the sepeartists was just to a.) weaken the republic and b.) whittle away at the fighting forces of the galaxy. Think about it would be easy to take over the galaxy if the galaxy wasn't united to stand against him.

mojo1701
5 March 2003, 11:59 AM
Actually, he engineered the Clone Wars and the Battle of Naboo so he could take advantage of the squabbling Senate and have them elect him Emergency Powers, so that what he decided became what the Senate agreed: no discussion, no debate. That's what a lot of countries do during major wars.

ShmobyKnight89
5 March 2003, 12:05 PM
But I still think that the war was to weaken the galaxie's resistance to him. If the galaxy was split in two, it would be easier to take it from the weakened republic.

Lucas Carr
1 April 2003, 06:57 AM
1. As Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tatooine, they visit Yoda on Dagobah.
2. Anakin (or maybe Vader) kills Tyranus and takes his place as the Lord of the Sith.
3. Tyranus kills Windu
4. Obi-Wan fights Anakin
5. We learn the truth about Force Spirits
6. It would be nice to see Yoda vs. Sidious, but I don't think that will happen.
7. Padme and Leia go to Alderaan.
8. Palpatine becomes Emperor, probably by tricking someone into suggesting it as he did in TPM and AotC.
9. Boba Fett will not be seen, at least not as a bounty hunter.
10. Darth Vader will wear his full armor.
11. Jar Jar will not die. Though he is gullible, the battle of Naboo would have been lost without him.


Rogue Janson: Your comment about Darth Bombad was so funny. :D

I will walk out of the cinema too, when the movie is over.

Jacen13
26 April 2003, 03:34 PM
Here are the facts I know of.

1) In a TV interveiw, Samuel L. Jackson said something along the lines of "Lucas and I are working on something fr Mace. Its going to be big, but he's definetley going to die in a blaze of glory"

2) Ani and Obi are gonna duke it out on a volcanic planet, and Ani's gonna end up taking a lava bath. When he emerges "the darkside was scared into his soul" and he became "more machine than man now"

3) Tyrannus is put paid by Yoda on Dagobah. Remeber, in WotC's d20 RPG game, Dooku is level 19, so it is conceivable that he caused the dark cave on Dagobah, and Yoda discovers the presence of the cave hides his presence.

4) Padme gives birth to Luke and Leia. Ani knows about Luke, not about Leia (he was suprised when he learned that Luke had a sister remember). Maximum steps are taken to hide Leia's presence. Luke is taken to Tatooine and semi-hidden, possibly as bait for Ani.

It sound cool, and I can't wait
:sabersml:

MKnote
22 May 2003, 03:53 PM
I think Boba Fett will kill Mace. Mace killed Jango, after all.

mojo1701
22 May 2003, 04:04 PM
But how old would Boba be at the time?

Jim Williams
23 May 2003, 03:50 AM
I would just offer up two points about Boba:

1) He nearly killed Obi with ship cannons. His age won't be a factor in certain scenarios that may allow him to kill Mace.

2) He could go back to Kamino for a little bit of growth acceleration. At a 2 for 1 exchange, three years turns into six, so sixteen years old. And undergoing combat training all the while...

However, it's pretty much seen that no matter how bad to the bone one may be training-wise, it's not enough to stand up to a Jedi. Especially Mace. I'm still thinking he's going to have to completely set Mace up to kill him.

Reed
24 May 2003, 05:31 AM
I am frankly sick and tired of people thinking that Boba Fett is going to be the one to kill Mace Windu. Its completely inconceivable. Boba Fett will be 13 at the most by Episode III. Even if he does take growth acceleration what is that going to accomplish he's only mature physically. He still has the mentally of a damn 13 year old. Who cares if he trains extensively for 3 years. Jango was trained most of his life, how long did he last against Mace Windu? I for one do not believe that a sqeeky voiced teen who's nuts have barely dropped is going to do anything to the 2nd most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. Get over your love for Boba Fett and take a whiff of reality. Even Star Wars has limitations.

The only thing I can think of that would have Boba killing Mace is if Mace had already been defeated by someone much more powerful, then Boba was given the chance to give the cout de grace.

Sorry, if I sound a little condescending and mean, but please GL himself said that Boba's role will be even smaller in Episode III.

Although I think the cout de grace idea might worked to explain something. When in ESB Vader says "no disintegrations" to Boba, it could be that when Boba does give Mace the cout de grace Vader or an evil Anakin will be present and Mace Windu will disappear like Obi and Yoda. Anakin will think that Mace was disintegrated. May not happen but hey. Its an explanation, and I think a decent one at that.

Krad-edis
24 May 2003, 05:52 AM
As Jim Williams mentioned, the Slave I offers quite an assortment of weaponry that even a Jedi Master would have a pretty hard time against. I don't see how Boba would have a hard time carpet bombing the crap out of Jedi in order to lure Mace out for a fight. I really don't think that a purple lightsaber would hold up too well against a concussion missile. Anyone can push a button, and I don't think for a minute that Fett really cares about his actions looking pretty. Him and his dad were concerned about results.

Besides Fett, Tyranus and Anakin/Vader have been mentioned by several other holonetters, and I would have to agree that those two would give Windu a run for his money. I have thought about it long and hard and have guessed that Obi will fight Ani, Yoda will fight Dooku, and Mace will fight someone who we really have not seen fight at all: Palpatine. While Windu might be a bad bad bad mothaf***** with a lightsaber, I can only imagine that Sidious/Palpatine would be able to either get around Shaft's lightsaber with the dark side of the Force, or is quite an accomplished duelist himself. I don't know who would have been responsible for overseeing Maul's intense style of fighting besides Palpatine (age should not be a concern for the older man, after all, Yoda and Dooku were quite agile), and I am only lead from that assumption to really believe that Sidious knows how to use a lightsaber very well if it is true that Maul's last Sith trial was to challenge his master to a duel. Perhaps the Emperor and Anakin show up to close the Jedi Temple and Mace stays stoically behind in efforts to stall the Dark Lords from killing all the Jedi at once?

Of all the people capable of doing harm to Jedi Master Shaft, Palpatine is at the top of my list. He is a very naughty and powerful Sith.:emperor: :)

Lucas Carr
24 May 2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Reed
Although I think the cout de grace idea might worked to explain something. When in ESB Vader says "no disintegrations" to Boba, it could be that when Boba does give Mace the cout de grace Vader or an evil Anakin will be present and Mace Windu will disappear like Obi and Yoda. Anakin will think that Mace was disintegrated. May not happen but hey. Its an explanation, and I think a decent one at that.

Does Vader know that the bounty hunter Boba Fett in ESB is the little kid in AotC?

It would be interesting to see Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

Reed
26 May 2003, 08:09 AM
orginally posted by Lucas Carr
Does Vader know that the bounty hunter Boba Fett in ESB is the little kid in AotC?

Its implied that they know each other from the past because of the way they speak to each other and their mutual respect. Its also how Vader singles Boba out with the "no disintegrations" line that really implies a shared past of some kind that involved ... uh ... disintegrations.



originally posted by Lucas Carr
It would be interesting to see Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

Although it would be pretty cool, I don't think its likely that we'll see Sidious even ignite a lightsaber. Part of what makes him the biggest baddy is the fact that he can crush his enemies without using physical force. He doesn't need a saber to take you out, all he needs are your own fears and doubts. If that fails he just whips up some Force Lightning.



originally posted by Krad-edis
I have thought about it long and hard and have guessed that Obi will fight Ani, Yoda will fight Dooku, and Mace will fight someone who we really have not seen fight at all: Palpatine.

I like your thinking, but I don't think that we'll see Yoda in another saber duel. I think we should get to see Yoda fight some stormtroopers or something, to see how he would dispense with lowly grunts. Dooku is going to be killed by Anakin and take his place as the next Sith Lord. I do agree that its about time we see Palpatine do something that truely makes him appear evil and frying Mace Windu with lightning seems like it could do. Although I would think it would after Windu nearly defeats Dooku or Anakin in a duel or something. The probelm is Mace is supposed to die when the Clone Wars ends, so I would think it'll be in a duel with Dooku.

mojo1701
26 May 2003, 05:29 PM
I hardly think Boba's gonna kill him via Slave I's weapons. It's too un-Star Wars and uncinematic.

Krad-edis
27 May 2003, 12:09 AM
I don't know if it would be too uncinematic if Fett tried, and Mace still gave him a run for his money, like by leaping from the ground up about 40 or so feet up onto the cockpit of the Slave I with his lightsaber carving "Mace was here" trying to get through to the young Fett. I tend to agree that Mace probably won't be doing this, but they certainly could have Fett doing something which may be a distraction to Mace from actual real danger, like Anakin or Dooku, or Aurra Sing.

Can you imagine Mace sending Fett and the Slave I on its way only to be faced with Dooku? (I really doubt that Dooku or Anakin would ever work together, so I would like to speculate that it would be Dooku and an outside party) Dooku sneaks up on him taking full advantage of Mace who he may recognize as the better swordsman. He may even have help from other seperatist forces who we have not even seen yet (supposedly Mace dies at the end of the Clone Wars, so I presume that Seperatists are still around), Perhaps this rumored female assassin that has been discussed (Rumor has it that the actress who plays Aurra Sing is gearing up for some action, I think she also plays Sly Moore, Palpatine's Aide), will be working in tandem with Dooku to beat Windu. Dooku and Mace duel it out with Aurra Sing or Sly Moore (who I am guessing is just as bad) taking pot shots at Mace the whole time either with a blaster rifle, or eventually with a lightsaber herself. Dooku and Sing beat Windu and Fett flies by and waves, and the two smile and wave back saying "We beat him, now lets see if his wallet actually says Bad Mother......... on it."

Well, maybe not that last part, but I think that it is not entirely inconceivable to think that there are bad guys who will work together to cheat a good guy, and that Fett, who witnessed his father's demise at the hands of Mace, would want a piece of the action. Though I doubt the thirteen year old could ever go toe to toe with Mace, I think that the Slave I could serious give Mace a rough time, and we know that Fett has no qualms about shooting at character scale Jedi with Starship weaponry (un-Star Wars or Uncinematic or not, what workes with one Jedi may work with another) I think the three of them working together could put Mace in a hurt locker. Who knows for sure how it will happen (well, besides Lucas), but I wouldn't rule Fett out of having part of Mace's demise.

Nova Spice
27 May 2003, 09:46 AM
I still think Mace, as well as all of the other Council members, save for Yoda, will die by Anakin's hands. Vader is supposed to betray the Jedi and I bet Anakin does something (be it trickery, lightsaber duel, or sabotage) that results in the deaths of mass numbers of Jedi. The thought has crossed my mind that he has the Jedi Temple destroyed in some fashion, perhaps with Sidious' help.

As far as Dooku goes, I think it's obvious that he and Yoda will duel in the cave on Dagobah and Yoda will slay his former apprentice. I could be wrong, but I think that if anything's predicatble about Episode III (besides the Obi-Wan and Anakin duel), it's Yoda's defeat of Dooku on Dagobah.

And according to reliable sources, the first scenes of Episode III will be the final battle of the Clone Wars and the last scene will be Obi-Wan delivering Luke (wrapped in blankets) to Owen and Beru Lars.

AzmoDanakar
29 May 2003, 10:16 AM
Good thread here, I was glad to have this to read, it helped pass the time until my lunch break at work ;-). Any thing I say, will just be a re-hash of some very good and valid speculative points, but oh well.
First, I think that Boba will probably kill Mace. I do think it will be Boba taking advantage of a wounded or exhausted Mace, or it will be Boba taking advantage of his compassion or somehow capitalizing on an opportunity, not a straight fight. I would like to see some justification for the famous Vader line " no disintegrations".
Second, if the climactic battle between Anakin and Obi Wan is not near Lava, it could be near molten metal in an industrial area.
I also suspect we will see the prototype of the TIE Fighter.
The whole Yoda-Dooku balance of light and dark on Dagobah thing is brilliant, that would explain SO much.
There are many loose ends to tie up and I am very much looking forward to it.

Master Tryka
29 May 2003, 12:20 PM
As much as I'd love to see the Dagobah fight between Dooku and Yoda, and how it would mesh so well with things that have been present in the EU, I think thats more or less the reason It will not happen that way. Lucas time and again has claimed that his Star Wars is the only true Star Wars, and by doing this, it would almost seem as hes accepting it and making his movie to fit into it. As much as it would work, thats why I dont see it happening.

Tramp
30 May 2003, 05:10 PM
George Lucas has already taken things directly from the EU. For example, Ailla Secura, the name Coruscant, the Outrider (can be seen leaving Mos Eisley in the Special Edition of ANH) among others. I find it very likely that we'll see another battle between Yoda and Dooku on Dagobah. Who knows, Dooku may have originally been from Bffash 9which would tie into the EU history that Yoda defeated a Bfasshi Dark Jedi on Dagobah thus creating the Dark Side Cave.

Franksta
11 June 2003, 12:38 PM
no offense, but what evidence is there that we'll see Yoda and Dooku go at it on Degoba? A rematch is very likely buy why on Degoba? Why not just have Yoda flee to Degoba to escape the purge of the jedi?

Bobba will still be pretty young for Episode III right? so i don't think he'll kill Mace but Mace will surely be killed in the purge.

i do believe tensions will rise between Obi-Wan and Anakin, they will duel over a volcano and Anakin will fall in. Palpatine will save him and bring him to the dark side, marking the end of Anakin Skywalker and the birth of Darth Vader. Palpatine is obviously the Emperor in some way, be it cloning etc. I don't see any way that he couldn't be the emporer.

[edit] i didn't read Tramp's post well enough. Interesting that Lucas might bring in some EU elements into EpIII. I don't see why they would end up on Degoba unless Dooku is chasing Yoda across the galaxy.

Master Tryka
11 June 2003, 12:41 PM
well the thought of the fight on Dagobah is how the dark cave from ESB was created. Somewhere in the EU it is said it is the deat place of a Stih Lord or some really Dark Jedi

Krad-edis
11 June 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Franksta
no offense, but what evidence is there that we'll see Yoda and Dooku go at it on Degoba? A rematch is very likely buy why on Degoba? Why not just have Yoda flee to Degoba to escape the purge of the jedi?

Well, no one has any evidence, this is the Rumors and Speculation forum. All ideas are welcome.


Originally posted by Franksta
Bobba will still be pretty young for Episode III right? so i don't think he'll kill Mace but Mace will surely be killed in the purge. [/B]

You might want to check out starwars.com. Enough people have heard that he will die at the beginning of the movies, or at the end of the Clone Wars. While a young Boba Fett will certainly not be a match for a Jedi Master such as Mace, Slave I with its armaments, especially concussion missiles could certainly cause Mace some serious problems. Now, I am not saying that it will happen this way, but don't underestimate the potential of a thirteen year old at a control panel, especially if they are Boba Fett.


Originally posted by Franksta
i do believe tensions will rise between Obi-Wan and Anakin, they will duel over a volcano and Anakin will fall in. Palpatine will save him and bring him to the dark side, marking the end of Anakin Skywalker and the birth of Darth Vader. Palpatine is obviously the Emperor in some way, be it cloning etc. I don't see any way that he couldn't be the emporer.[/B]

We can almost count on this happening in some shape or form. Though I agree with you that Palpatine is the Emperor, some have suggested that Palpatine is really a good guy, and Sidious, an evil clone of the good Senator kills him and becomes Emperor using his name. A little strange, but I guess we will have to wait and see.


Originally posted by Franksta
[edit] i didn't read Tramp's post well enough. Interesting that Lucas might bring in some EU elements into EpIII. I don't see why they would end up on Degoba unless Dooku is chasing Yoda across the galaxy. [/B]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Degobah was a nice lush and green forest planet, similar to the moon of Endor, that is until Yoda killed the Dark Jedi there. This Dark Jedi was so corrupted that he wrecked the planet's ecosystem, or changed it to its dark and swampy state, whichever way you wish to look at it, and that is why Yoda is on the slimy mudhole. Again, a litle strange, but we will just wait to see if Lucas decides to incorporate Zahn or a variation of Zahn's ideas again.