PDA

View Full Version : storm trooper question



Rip Jedi
9 August 2002, 04:17 PM
how many storm troopers are there in a platoon and what would there ranks be

Krad-edis
10 August 2002, 12:23 AM
I have not seen anything official, but how many military forces typically organize unit sizes are spread out kind of like this:

I will put it into Stormtrooper units instead of Marine Corps :D

Fire team : 4 stormtroopers, 1 Corporal (fire team leader), 3 Privates

Squad: 13 stormtroopers, basically 3 fire teams, 1 Sergeant (squad leader), 3 Corporals, 9 Privates

Platoon: 41 Stormtroopers, basically 3 squads, 1 2nd Lieutenant (platoon commander), 1 Staff Sergeant (platoon sergeant), 3 Sergeants, 9 Corporals, 27 Privates

Company: 126 Stormtroopers, basically 3 platoons, 1 Captain (company commander), 1 1st Lieutenant (company executive officer, 1 Master Sergeant (company first sergeant), 3 2nd Lieutenants, 3 Staff Sergeants, 9 Sergeants, 27 Corporals, 81 Privates

Battalion: 381 Stormtroopers, basically 3 companies, 1 Lieutenant Colonel (Battalion Commander), 1 Major (Battalion Executive Officer)
1 Sergeant Major (Battalion Sergeant Major), 3 Captains, 3 1st Lieutenants, 3 Master Sergeants, 9 2nd Lieutenants, 9 Staff Sergeants, 27 Sergeants, 81 Corporals, 243 Privates.

I am sorry that I don't know really official ranks or do I actually have actual Imperial troop sizes, however I don't see them being terribly different from what I have posted here. If you wish to organize Regiments and Divisions, they tend to follow the mulitples of 3 in size of the previous unit, plus a few depending on the new command element. If you have any other questions on troop sizes, feel free to email me.

Rip Jedi
10 August 2002, 04:04 AM
thank you verry much that helps alot

wolfe
10 August 2002, 05:36 AM
well this is how weg put it...

a squad generally<this number can vary in number> has 8 troopers in commanded by a sergeant, corporal is second in command.

platoon is composed of 4 squads commanded by a lietenant and sarageant major.

company is composed of 4 platoons commanded by a captain.

battalion is composed of 4 companies, commanded by a major

regiment made of 4 battalions commanded by a Lt. col.

Legion-<largest unit organization for stormtroopers>- made of 4 regiments commanded by a Col.

there are NO staff officers. every trooper is either combat command or a trooper.

the other troopers are not given ranks they know what number in line of comand they are-#1 or #8 and #1 is always given the rank of corporal.

The Admiral
10 August 2002, 08:13 AM
WEG got a fair few bits wrong with regards stormtroopers. Not their fault, really, George didn't give out the information needed, and they made a best guess.

With the data from E2 now settling, a more consistent model emerges;

Stormtroopers operate in squads of 8 troopers. (This has always been the case, and it's rooted in the simple fact that they only made eight stormtrooper uniforms for A New Hope)

Stormtroopers don't use normal ranks, they are referred to by number only. (The actual troopers that is, there is a whole other level I'll get to in a minute) Stormtroopers are designed to work without a normal chain of command

The vehicle commander troopers are picked at random, as are the pilot troopers. (When the troopers pick up their equipment in AotC, they pick up their helmets from a conveyor belt on which the colour coded helmets signifying their role are distributed randomly) This works simply because stormtroopers are virtually identical.

For command, stormtroopers rely on other sources. In AotC, the Jedi fulfill the roles of command officers. By A New Hope, there is an extant stormtrooper command division. These are not clones. They wear black uniforms or standard stormtrooper armour during combat missions. Commander Praji is the most obvious example.

So to answer the question, a platoon of Stormtroopers would consist of four squads of stormtroopers (32 clones) and usually a stormtrooper commander, a Lieutennent, usually, bringing the total up to 33.

However, the nature of stormtroopers would suggest that command elements are attached only as needed, a platoon that was part of a large military unit may well not need the Lt. They are built to be able to follow general orders without confusion, adapting on a squad / unit level to very few orders, negating the need for micro management. So if you're attacking a town with a thousand stormtroopers, you can issue orders from a very small command base and get surprisingly effective results. Tell them you want building X demolished urgently, and ALL of the troopers will know that's an order, and all of the troopers will make virtually exactly the same tactical analysis of how to do it, and consequently, will do it in the most efficient manner.
You wouldn't need to order squad 37B to frag it with grenades, because squad 37B already knows that this is the best way to do it, that they are in the best place to do it, and every other trooper knows that too, and adjust what they're doing accordingly.
This behaviour is seen most clearly when Yoda orders the clones to fire on the Trade Federation ships, he simply mentions to the trooper standing beside him that they should do it, and virtually instantly, those units capable of acting on the targets (The SPHA-T's) concentrate their fire, whilst the ground troopers, who can't do diddly squit carry on with their standing orders.

Krad-edis
10 August 2002, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral
Stormtroopers operate in squads of 8 troopers. (This has always been the case, and it's rooted in the simple fact that they only made eight stormtrooper uniforms for A New Hope)

Interesting stuff. A squad of troopers doesn't sound like too much of a problem anymore. The way I GM'd, a squad (13) and most certainly a platoon (41) would use combine fire rules and wipe most beginning or intermediate player characters right out of existence.

BTW, where is the source (WEG) that even gives troop size? I have never seen it.

For Rip Jedi, here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6133) is another discussion that I started several months ago that also got some good feedback about Stormtroopers. I kind of asked the same question.

Rip Jedi
10 August 2002, 07:08 PM
well the reason i asked this question was because of a platoon of troopers in the book "wreched hives of scum and villany". they are called the emporors irregulars they are stationed at starlight station. they give stats for their commander and one set of stats for the troopers. i love the idea and i wanted to write up seprate stats for all of them and make them a reoccoring group of villans for my players

Krad-edis
10 August 2002, 07:23 PM
Commander Brezzic Marr is roughly about what I pictured a Lt.Colonel for my stats to be similar too, and the same goes for the Veterans. The vets resemble my Sergeants and Staff Sergeants. I would have to say that these guys are awfully specialized for a Commander to be in charge of such a small group of troops. Even though it says they are not the best, they seem pretty kick a$$ to me. I like your idea to recreate the 105th, that's cool!

wolfe
11 August 2002, 07:17 AM
well hopefully this isnt hijackin thread----

for Krad-edis, the stormtrooper info is in Imperial source book pg 83.

as for stormtroopers being clones havent seen anything that states they are..unless i missed something, but oh well.

Durian Keldrona
13 August 2002, 12:04 AM
lucas a long time ago said they were clones but he never really got into it. Prolly kept WEG in the dark mostly about it. in an old article for some magazine around the time of A New Hope. I vaguely remember seeing it somewhere...

Steven Snyder
15 August 2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by The Admiral
However, the nature of stormtroopers would suggest that command elements are attached only as needed, a platoon that was part of a large military unit may well not need the Lt. They are built to be able to follow general orders without confusion, adapting on a squad / unit level to very few orders, negating the need for micro management. So if you're attacking a town with a thousand stormtroopers, you can issue orders from a very small command base and get surprisingly effective results. Tell them you want building X demolished urgently, and ALL of the troopers will know that's an order, and all of the troopers will make virtually exactly the same tactical analysis of how to do it, and consequently, will do it in the most efficient manner.
You wouldn't need to order squad 37B to frag it with grenades, because squad 37B already knows that this is the best way to do it, that they are in the best place to do it, and every other trooper knows that too, and adjust what they're doing accordingly.
This behaviour is seen most clearly when Yoda orders the clones to fire on the Trade Federation ships, he simply mentions to the trooper standing beside him that they should do it, and virtually instantly, those units capable of acting on the targets (The SPHA-T's) concentrate their fire, whilst the ground troopers, who can't do diddly squit carry on with their standing orders.

With all due respect, I am going to have to completely disagree with that statement.

In order to have an effective fighting force that can carry out tactical movements, you must have a reliable method of communications. A chain of command must be in place for reliable communications to take place from commander to soldier.

If a force of 1000 troopers walks into a town with no clear rank designation, you effectively have a mob of 1000 armed individuals. This force has no way to effectively coordinate their actions, and no way to reliably communicate with each other.

An individual solider walking through a hostile zone, such as the city you mentioned, MUST remain focused on his immediate situation in order to stay alive. A trooper already has enough to occupy himself without adding on more to the load. If a soldier that is walking through a hostile zone, has to pay attention to a real-time tactical map on his HUD, he is going to get himself and his squad killed.

I don't care how closely they trained and how they are identical in genetic makeup, they are not going to all make the same tactical decisions. A soldier who just walked into an alley and watched his entire squad be mowed down by an ambush in 3 seconds is going to have a completely different tactical opinion than one who is on the other side of town and hasn't had any contact with the enemy yet.

Communications would be a complete mess without the chain of command. If you have 1000 soldiers on a frequency you aren't going to get anything useful off that channel, it will be filled with, "I am...I see...We are...I need...Where are...I can't..." Then you get to deal with the wonderful sounds of a single soldier crying out in pain on the comm frequencies because he is too hurt and confused to remember to turn it off and die quietly. Suppose you break down to squad level, then you have to still contend with 120+ squads, and must also have a squad leader...there is that chain of command coming back.

For an effective fighting force like clonetrooper we must have a rank structure in place. The individual soldiers who are in squads or sections recieve their orders from the sergeant. The sergeant communicates with the the lieutenants who are in charge of platoons. The lieutenants talk to the captains who run entire companies, and recieve their orders from a Commander, who watches the battlefield and makes the tactical decisions.

It cannot be stressed enough that those in higher ranks MUST have specialized training for that role. While a trooper doesn't have to worry about tactics, his superiors must. Troopers don't worry much about logistics, planning, or anything else that isn't directly related to the field, that's why we have officers.

Starwars.com already mentions that clone trooper have ranks, and we know that the tradition was carried over to stormtroopers, via the shoulder pauldrons.

Clone troopers were fully encased in hard white armor, their identical faces concealed behind a t-shaped visor. Color-coded flashes on the armor denoted rank, with green troopers being sergeants, blue being lieutenants, red being captains, and yellow being commanders. The clones designated for command duty were specifically trained in that capacity.

Take a read of Starship Troopers if you haven't already, it does a wonderful job of detailing what goes into scifi infantry.

sebulba524
5 September 2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral
[B]The vehicle commander troopers are picked at random, as are the pilot troopers. (When the troopers pick up their equipment in AotC, they pick up their helmets from a conveyor belt on which the colour coded helmets signifying their role are distributed randomly) This works simply because stormtroopers are virtually identical.

For command, stormtroopers rely on other sources. In AotC, the Jedi fulfill the roles of command officers. [B]

Actually, the clones were specifically trained for certain duties. Pilots and commanders were specifically trained. The differentiation in color was for the rank they were trained and not randomly distributed. That's why it goes all up the arms of the trooper as well as on the helmet(In AotC, none of the standard troops pick up the yellow helmets because they aren't trained to command.)

Clone ranks are color coordinated as follows-

White- Private
Green- Sergeant
Blue- Lieutenant
Red- Captain
Yellow- Commander

Pilots also had yellow markings with modified helmets. They added breathing apparatii to it for spaceflight, but still had the same body armor. It was constricting in the cockpit and was later modified.

I have lots more info on clones, but now I'm ramblin on about somethin off topic. If u guys want, I'll put in more, but it's all from the Visual Dictionary and official site.

patrick.bunch
25 September 2002, 08:44 AM
A squad of troopers doesn't sound like too much of a problem anymore. ..
I disagree, a properly run StormTrooper Squad will create a Highly emotional event for your PC. Two sets of 4 each, that gives a the Team Leaders a +7 to hit (+4 attack, +3 supporting fire) or +3/+3 multifire attack. And in the Troopers comlink with the other members in his unit and you've got a monster that can cause a early-level PC group to have second thoughts about slugging it out with the Imperials.

Starships Troopers- excellent read, definately recommend it to anyone who has ever wondered what goes on in a soldiers' head during battle. I wish they taugh this book to our current army officers.

Krad-edis
25 September 2002, 10:39 AM
I guess I should have explained who my players are when I said that Stormies are less of a problem. :)

A group of my six players (typically had 8D in most combat related skills, with armor, grenades, and high powered blasters) from the game I ran previously had a pretty tough time against 13 Stormtroopers, but they were still alive and the troops weren't. It was kind of like the O.K. Corral with pulse rifles, grenades, and heavy blaster pistols. They would have mopped up against 8 fairly quickly. The WEG stats for a Stormtrooper are not that great (good, but not great), but if you add eight of them together, that can present a challenge for a beginner group or even an intermediate group.....granted.

As I was getting at earlier, if you have six guys with twice the experience and skills as they do, they are going to blast their way through smiling all the way, even though they are outnumbered. I can say that our lead guy managed to take out three of the Stormtroopers with his T-6 Thunderer in the first round (three shots at 6D a piece). That left my group against ten which they managed to deal with in the following rounds. If they had (the official set of 8 minus 3).....five to contend with, things would have gone much faster, and would been as stated earlier, less of a problem.

I guess it really depends on whether they have a chance to use combined fire, or if you are using combined fire.....either way, I would have to say that 8 is much more favorable than 13.....and therefore less of a problem.

I do not have my book with me, but for D20, don't Stormtroopers not have any vitality points, since they are Thugs 4, 8, 12? If this is so, they had better win some serious initiative in a fight. So it seems that they may be able to deal the pain out, but most player of comparable level can take it and deal it out, and from what I see, the Stormies cannot take it back.......which makes them less of a problem.

Still if you feel inclined to disagree, that is cool. I do agree with the idea that they do present "horror factor" for your level 1 - 3 groups, but not for the 8 to 12th level groups. I will just be happy to inform my old group (when we do get back together) that a squad is not 13, but instead Stormtroopers are in squads of 8. They will rejoice, and go out and give Jawas wedgies in order to provoke Stormtroopers to investigate just for a feel of old times, but not nearly as bad. Just kidding, but I am almost positive that they will agree with me that 8 instead of 13 is not as much of a problem.

BTW, I would never throw a full squad (8, and certainly not 13) of Stormtroopers at early level or low skilled PCs, unless they really did something outrageous (use your imagination for this one, usually it deals with players doing dumb things with firearms in public). A fire team is sufficient to do the damage and present the challenge for our heroes of lesser reputation.

patrick.bunch
27 September 2002, 10:17 AM
PC's with 8D combat skills?? Definately in a different class when dealing with a single Stormtrooper squad. They are mostly likely attracting attention of a different sort I assume ? "Major Verrs, prepare a Walker patrol to meet our latest guests...."
As for a squad vs. Low-lvl PC's, yes they would be a bit much, but I've always tried to put combat as supporting element to my players adventures, and so a squad of Stormtroopers is used not so much as walking targets but as obstacles to out-whit.

Krad-edis
27 September 2002, 09:33 PM
I've always tried to put combat as supporting element to my players adventures, and so a squad of Stormtroopers is used not so much as walking targets but as obstacles to out-whit.

Yes, so have I. Out-witting stormtroopers usually is done on a first draw, first blast basis (initiative plays a big part). After that it is all cover and concealment, and dodging. I did not mean to say that it was easy for the experienced guys, and it shouldn't be. I never heard Han Solo say, "Hey Chewie, blindfold me. It is just a bunch of Stormtroopers."

The rolls were simply in their favor because of experience, not to mention the fact that they too knew a) tactics, b) had the right blasters to punch the holes in Stormie Armor, and c) understood the concept of dropping to one knee and firing (most shots go up, look at the random hit charts. 1 head, 2-3 arms, 4 chest and 5 -6 legs). It is kind of hard to drop to one knee in armor. 2/3 of the Stomies shots went over the PCs heads while the PCs were closer to the prone and squeezed off the stellar shots needed to blaze a path to victory. I was pretty impressed with one of my guy's ideas of dropping to one knee, so I was in a pretty good mood about. Not lenient about the gun battle, I just did not decide to have reinforcements on the way. :)