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The_Anarchisto
18 August 2002, 06:42 PM
Allright, I have to admit. I'm a 20 year old male, soon to be attending a medium-sized university. And the only thing that interests me more than SWRPG is, of course, women!

The question I have is if SWRPG is an entirely male game. In the group I GM, I have one female player, but she's in it for the creative, plot element (English major - go figure).

So I guess my question is 1) are there women out there who enjoy SWRPG? and 2) what type of people are they?

Just curious.

The Anarchisto

hisham
18 August 2002, 07:14 PM
Nope. RPGs are not a male-only game.

IMHO, women play in a totally different way to men. They put the role into roleplaying. Male tend to stick to the mechanics and go "I need to roll a 10 to make it". Women on the other hand absorb the story you put to them and roleplay without giving a hoot to the dice rolling. So they're not constricted by PC skills and stats whenever they act.

You are right in that "creative, plot element" thing, but my games are richer and more fun because of women reacting to the plot elements :)

FYI I've had 2 regular female players in my SWRPG games.

VixenofVenus
18 August 2002, 09:22 PM
* Woman Here *

No offense ... but ...

/flame on

Ignorant men!

/flame off


Ok ... girls make GREAT additions to RPG groups because they 'think differently' than guys ... I know of THREE Seperate Couples (2 RP groups) who have women roleplayers in them ... if you want Girls to RP with you ... ASK THEM ... its the same for Dating ...

If you don't ask ... they won't play ... and yes, since nerdy guys are usually the primary group of guys to RP ... you aren't going to get Pom-Pom Shaking, Heavy-Makup wearing, Barbie doll types to RP with you ... especially if its Star Wars or D&D ... or heaven forbid something like Call of Cthulu (believe me guys ... Society may tell you to go after the Pom-Pom Shakers ... but the nerdy girls who have a brain instead of looks will make better wives, mothers, and workers ... and RPers)

On a related note ... guys play Female Characters ... which is AWESOME ... if they do it for the right reasons ... its good because it makes you think of something completely opposite of yourself to RP them ... first of all, for a guy to RP a female scoundrel who is probably very good looking (hey guys I know how you think! ;) ) its different because a) its female so it will act differently than him b) its a scoundrel so its into a bit of fighting and stealing and gambling (which should be different than them!!! hehe) and c) it will be more fun RPing because it is harder to RP.

Bad Other-Sex RPing is when they make a character of the opposite sex because they think he/she is 'Hot' and then play them like they would any character ... generally ... guys do this more than girls in my experience ...



As for your original whining ... unless you live somewhere out in the middle of no-where ... there's probably plenty of girls you know that would be interested ... BTW ... recently the best way to get them into it ... FIND THE ONES WHO ARE BIG FANS OF Lord of the Rings!!! ... invite them to Play some D&D ... after they get RP-Hooked ... then move on to Star Wars ...

Reverend Strone
18 August 2002, 10:51 PM
Actually, the lovely Vixen is absolutely right. There are tonnes of lady-gamers out there. I know plenty, and if I may say, very few of the gamers I know (men or women) conform to the general RPGer stereotype. I'd like to think the other male members of my group and I aren't the classic geeky stereotype of RPGers, and I most certainly know several very attractive lady-gamers, one of whom would actually fit Vixen's Barbie-look archetype (they are out there guys). I remember when I mentioned her in a previous thread getting a bunch of PMs from bachelor holonetters.:D :rolleyes:

Bottom line- there are gamers of every type out there. Some are simply less visible than others. If you are keen on addressing the gender balance in your game-group, I'd echo Vixen's suggestion:


BTW ... recently the best way to get them into it ... FIND THE ONES WHO ARE BIG FANS OF Lord of the Rings!!! ... invite them to Play some D&D ... after they get RP-Hooked ... then move on to Star Wars ...

Smart lady. Having recently attended the Comic Con in San Diego (loads of fun BTW- you should definately get to it one year, if you haven't already) I can attest to the fact that among LOTR fans, the split goes straight down the middle, with easily as many female as male frothing fans. Of the twelve or so Legolas outfits I saw strutting the stands, only one was a guy! I'm not sure how Orlando Bloom would feel about that. :D

There were a whole passel of Star Wars fans who were women too, if not as many LOTR fems, so I reiterate- they are out there. Go forth and find my friend...

One last wee note:


Bad Other-Sex RPing is when they make a character of the opposite sex because they think he/she is 'Hot' and then play them like they would any character ... generally ... guys do this more than girls in my experience ...

Yeah- I'll admit to having been guilty of that myself when I was a pimply, hormone-driven teen gamer (gosh- so long ago now). Now I've found most gamers I know consisitantly play their own gender. It's hard to play across gender well, and not fall into stereotypical behaviour, though not impossible. It comes down to the skill of the player and their motivations for doing so. Incidentally, some of the best gamers I know who've had success at this are the women.

Krad-edis
18 August 2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by VixenofVenus
BTW ... recently the best way to get them into it ... FIND THE ONES WHO ARE BIG FANS OF Lord of the Rings!!! ... invite them to Play some D&D ... after they get RP-Hooked ... then move on to Star Wars ...

Couldn't agree more. My wife, sister, mother, and sister-in-law are all Lord of Rings fans. There are more women who like Tolkien, Robert Jordan and other fantasy themed stories than you may think.

Korpil
18 August 2002, 11:44 PM
YOu're right, when I saw FOTR for the first time I was on vacation at Colombia, and my friend's wife loved the story and asked me a lot of questions...

Back in Mexico I took my parents to see the movie and my father was almost aslept while my mother loved it also!!

VixenofVenus
19 August 2002, 11:06 AM
I was just sayijng that while MOST of the Women that will be easily persuaded to try RPing will be 'nerdy' (which doesn't mean they aren't good-looking or they are ugly in any way). There are good looking nerdy people ...

by Nerdy - I mean:

a) Smart and Creative
b) Willing to try new things
c) They don't act like a character from 'Clueless'
d) Will be successful in life


Since I AM A NERD ... I consider this a compliment ... heck, the greatest people in History were nerds (except for JFK who was a non-nerd who became a nerd through effort, props to JFK).

Reverend Strone
19 August 2002, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the clarification Vixen. That was how understood your comments. I was simply talking about those stereotypical apperances and traits folks usually associate with RPGers, and trying to illustrate how the reality of the situation can be so different. I think we're talking about the same thing.

:)

Moridin
19 August 2002, 11:49 AM
I like women.

*shrugs*

What?

Krad-edis
19 August 2002, 12:08 PM
If they (women) like Tolkien, I mentioned earlier that they may like "The Wheel of Time". My friend a few years back attempted to create a D6 Wheel of Time game, and one of other friend's wife, along with one of the girls we worked with wanted to play a Border Guard from Kandor and a non-bonded Gaidin in training in Tar Valon, while us guys wanted to play Aes Sedai. Kind of strange.....but the thing is, that now that I think of it, I know more women who are interested in fantasy / adventure stories than I do men.

Reverend Strone
19 August 2002, 12:11 PM
Yeah, but does Orlando Bloom appear in "Wheel of Time"? :D

Just joking of course.

Krad-edis
19 August 2002, 12:39 PM
Sorry, no elves allowed in The Wheel of Time, unless your GM can cross Middle Earth and the land in which The Wheel of Time takes place.
That would be sort of interesting.

VixenofVenus
19 August 2002, 12:47 PM
Just don't cross wheel of time and Star Wars ... thats a real headache!!!

Talon Kane
19 August 2002, 02:28 PM
Believe it or not, I actually have an equal male to female ration in both of my games I run. One is a superhero game called Blood of Heroes, the other is our d20 Star Wars game.

As for my female players, they all love sci-fi and fantasy, each of them are very creative with their backgrounds, and their are fantastic role-players. Did I mention that all of them are also very attractive? Did I also mention one of them is my wife? :D

It is the weirdest thing, but when I lived up north in NYC and Buffalo, I rarely had female players in my games. I knew a few female players, but they were far and few between. When we moved down south to Orlando, I met a ton of female players. It was weird. Anyone else notice a difference in the ratio of female players depending on location?

On another tangent, I have a blast playing female characters. To me, the ultimate role-playing experience is to play something unique and different. As a male, there I can't go more extreme than playing a female. It was interesting to try to see through the eyes of a woman. I will say, I completely understand why woman hate cheesy pick up lines now. The last NPC that used one on my character got his head smashed through a car window. :D

That was all I had.

Nova Spice
19 August 2002, 04:15 PM
Anyone else notice a difference in the ratio of female players depending on location?

Talon, I live in Sweet Home Alabama and I must admit that there aren't many female RPers in the Heart of Dixie. :D

My entire group is all guys, which is fine. I'm with the Reverend in that we hardly conform to the nerdy stereotype. I play three sports and am pretty good at all of them (Baseball, Basketball, and Football). Of my four PCs, two run track and another plays baseball too.

Personally, I'm not sure that I know any females that would be willing to role-play. Then again, I may be intentionally not looking. :p (Please don't hurt me Vixen! :D )

VixenofVenus
19 August 2002, 08:21 PM
Nova ... take this as a compliment ... but YOU ARE A NERD!!!

I have a friend at college who until 2 years ago had been living in Kenya for his entire life ... he speaks better english than most of the people that went to my high school (his fourth language), and is also a Nationally ranked track runner ... he's a nerd, why? Because he knows that his brain is more important than what's on the outside!

That is what defines a nerd (in my humble lightsaber-wielding opinion) ... very different than a Geek (don't make me define this ... but FlipDog and I both agree). Ever since the Revenge of the Nerds movies ... a NERD, is no longer an insult ... its like the ultimate compliment.


I know I've kinda hijacked this thread ... so I thought I would re-rail it ...

Some suggestions to get women into your RPG games ....

General Suggestions:
- Ask them to come over and just try it once ... tell them that you won't be disappointed or mad if they don't like it ... RPing is not everyone's cup of tea.
- The time your group meets DOES play a part ... generally, girls prefer to play during the daytime on a weekend (Sat or Sun afternoon) than late at night ... although I personally like Saturday morning until lunch, then break for lunch and play til around 2:30pm ... good because it gets in alot of gaming for the whole week and allows for a nice long break (at least an hour for lunch and errands if needed)
- If the girl feels like she might be 'alone' or if you get the feeling she is unsure about it ... tell her to bring a girlfriend who is interested in the subject matter as well (2 for 1 deal!!)

Star Wars:
- Find chicks like me who love Star Wars so much (these are those crazy women who stand in line for hours to see Star Wars at midnight on opening night), then just ask em over to try it!

D&D or Wheel of Time:
- Again ... best hook for ANY RPing is going to be finding that MASS of girls who love Legolas (personally I'm not one of these women, and I'd rather have a date with Hayden than a date with Orlando). Then get em to play D&D or Wheel of Time.

Call of Cthulu or pretty much any White Wolf product:
- Don't any of you know girls who like slasher flicks? Studies show that 2/3rds of the people who go and see things like "Fear Dot Com" are WOMEN between the ages of 15 and 26 ... Thats you guys ... only ... female ... heh. Find the slasher fans, ask them if they wanna try a game thats scary ... then really go heavy on the RPing ... your all-male group may groan with the lack of hack and slash ... but once the girls are hooked ... they'll thank you later ... maybe at their wedding?! hehe

Wedge in Red2
19 August 2002, 10:06 PM
I think I mentioned this in a thread elsewhere, but I'll put it here too.

There are a bunch of female roleplayers out there, but a lot will go for other games that intrigue them more (White Wolfs Changeling or Vampire, for example). Star Wars tends to be pretty fast paced and action orientated, and as has already been mentioned (by hisham), that isn't what females tend to go for, they like the “role” aspect more. My SW group has one female, while my Changeling group has 3 (although one of them is having a break at the moment).


Originally posted by Reverend Strone
It's hard to play across gender well, and not fall into stereotypical behaviour, though not impossible. It comes down to the skill of the player and their motivations for doing so. Incidentally, some of the best gamers I know who've had success at this are the women.

I agree whole heartedly. Men and women think differently, it's a fact. I don't think [pause as Jon's mind churns over the hundreds of characters he's played in his life] I've ever played a female character purely because I don't know if I'd do them justice. Females are complicated.

Jon

P.S. I forgot to mention, I pretty much agree with everything everyone else has said in this thread. Yay everyone else :).

Corr Terek
20 August 2002, 08:52 AM
Hmm... I would say that I know quite a few women who'd be *willing* to participate in an RPG. My girlfriend is the most attractive girl I know (and no, i'm not exaggerating) and, had she an internet connection she'd most likely be RP'ing on the Holonet right alongside me (since that and PBeM's are the only RPGing experience I've had :( ).

Stereotypes aren't always correct (obviously). For instance, I am more into story/plot/character development than I am in action, though I can work equally well with both. My girlfriend likes action, especially, but character development is good for her, too. I have had female NPCs under my control, and, if I may say so, I think I play them fairly well (I'm often a GM) -- it helps that I have so many female friends to draw on. However, I've never actually *played* a female as my PC. Heck, I write fan-fiction and I've never had a female main character. I've had plots that revolve around a female character, yes, but never actually a female main character.

As Talon Kane mentioned, I like to go with...interesting character types. Ewok fighter pilots, anyone? The stranger a concept is, the harder it is to roleplay or write for. I like those types of challenges. So, in my fan-fiction especially you'd see some odd types -- like the Farghul dancer whose family was slaughtered by a rogue Jedi. She falls in love with an Aruzan Jedi who is so pacifistic he doesn't even draw his lightsaber unless its absolutely necessary. Oh yeah, and that's in the prequel Era, too.

It was especially fun to get inside the girl's head in that story. As someone said already, women are complicated. Her reactions toward the Jedi, her personality, the way she thought -- all were a challenge. Those of you men (or women) out there who like to try playing an opposite gender PC might want to try writing something like this -- it's a very good "thinking outside the box" exercise.

Okay...hopefully, I haven't derailed the thread. Those are my 52.5 cents.

Jedi_Staailis
20 August 2002, 07:41 PM
I'd suggest checking to see if your college has a RP club to begin with. This might make your work a whole lot easier.

I was worried about finding a game now that I'm on campus at Georgia Tech, but I stumbled across a roleplaying club. It still remains to be seen whether they play Star Wars, or whether there are any women in it (Georgia Tech is only 28% female to begin with), but it's certainly a way to meet people who already know what roleplaying is about.

Iris
21 August 2002, 04:11 AM
I know quite a few female gamers who enjoy a wide variety of games.

IMO if girl/woman has a "spirit of adventure" chances are you can at least get her to try an RPG. Present her with one that appeals to her interest; for example don't play Shadowrun if she isn't into dark, cyberpunk things.

Personally I think many girls out there would enjoy RPGs. Why don't they play them then? Because most of them are too busy worring about what the "in crowd" is gonig to think.

Krad-edis
21 August 2002, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by Iris
Because most of them are too busy worring about what the "in crowd" is gonig to think.

Mr. Anarchisto,

I wouldn't worry about those who do care about what the in crowd thinks. They usually have very little of anything interesting to say and when they do, it is usually a lie or half truth to make a story sound better.

When you start your semester, go into the college commons, food court, or area where a large amount of students hang out. Take a look around at everyone sitting there. You will see your jocks, geeks, gangsters, punks and at last the nerds. You need to go over to the nerdery and look for the "goth nerds". These guys all play D&D, Cyberpunk, Vampire, Rifts and all other sorts of games. They flash their books around like it is cool (because it is), and just listen to their conversations about hit points, magical items, and all sorts of other "role playing" stuff. The best part is that their girl friends, and their friends are all there too.

It is a place to start.

Kobayashi_Maru
21 August 2002, 08:05 AM
My girlfriend and I share alot of the same interests and she has role-played with me and whatever group we had at the time for the last 6 years.

Talon Kane
21 August 2002, 02:33 PM
I agree with Vixen's comments completely. If you want to get more female players in your game, you have to present it in a way that is interesting to them. Be honest. Tell them it may not be their thing. Explain why you think role-playing is fun. Also, present a game that they would interest them.

As for finding players, I went to my local gaming store and put a sign up on their bulletin board. Go check at your local gaming store and see if they have a board to put up an ad. If not, ask if you can leave a sign or flyer with the store. Or better yet, see if they have the room at their store to run your game. Gaming stores who have the space like gamers to play stuff there because it brings people into the store either way.

As for college gaming clubs, I have some problems with this. I ran a gaming club at the University of Buffalo (a big one too) and we were fortunate never having problems finding players. Some other colleges are not as fortunate to have an organized gaming club if they have one at all! It's even worse if they have a gaming club that is poorly organized.

That's all I have for now.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
22 August 2002, 10:45 AM
Well, my town doesn't have a gaming store, so there goes one idea. Also, many of the girls I know make fun of me for being a Star Wars fan and one of them even proclaimed to hate science fiction. Maybe my town is an anomaly...

Krad-edis
23 August 2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by ALFRED_THE_EWOK
Well, my town doesn't have a gaming store, so there goes one idea. Also, many of the girls I know make fun of me for being a Star Wars fan and one of them even proclaimed to hate science fiction. Maybe my town is an anomaly...

They make fun of you? :mad: Geez.....tell them that they are fat. I know that girls don't like that. Don't get made fun of, get even! :D ....I am just kidding.

No, your town is not an anomaly. There are ignorant people everywhere. Science fiction is such a large genre, that for her to say that she hates it all, she shows how ignorant she is. Hate is such a strong word to use too. She may dislike some science fiction, but I doubt that she has read or seen it all. Besides this does not sound like the open minded type that anyone would want in their group, and I know plenty of people like this. But for every five people who are like this, it seems that you can find one who likes science fiction, and people willing to play too....yes, even girls.

Iris
23 August 2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by ALFRED_THE_EWOK
Also, many of the girls I know make fun of me for being a Star Wars fan and one of them even proclaimed to hate science fiction.

*snicker*
Ask them if they like Charmed, Buffy, Roswell, Smallville or similar shows. Then just get this silly grin on your face and say "I thought you didn't like Sci-Fi?" While some of these are more toward the Fantasy end of the spectrum the are still classified (for TV Ratings purposes) as Sci-Fi.

DCJester
23 August 2002, 10:49 AM
Well, Im going to throw my verbal assault here ;)

Of the 2 games I tabletop, only one of them has a female player. She is very intelligent, very good looking, and very nice. I enjoy having her in the game, as she does bring about a different way of looking at things.

Now, I have 5 people in this group. Of these 5, 3 are there for RP, 1 is there for relaxtion, and one is there for Munchkin (well, you have to have the pick-on pal, dont you?). The female takes the best notes, listens the most when the NPCs speak, and recalls information the best. The two RP males like to interact with the NPC's, but mostly when it involves a singular mission or reason. The relaxing one, well, hes relaxing. What more need be said :) And the munchkin.....dont go there.

I have always preferred a female gamer over a male gamer anyday, and I find it depends sorely on the game. Obviously, if the female doesnt want to play it, she wont ask. If she does, I made room for her, or kicked out someone who was causing too much disruption. (Its funny how a male disrupter gets ticked off when he finds out he was being replaced by a FEMALE). Role acting is usually of the female gamers realm. Dont get me wrong, I have seen quite a few male Roleplayers, but not as often.

Nerds, geeks, bookworms, paleskins, whatever. Ive heard them all, and just say thank you.

Just ask any female you find looking through any of the stores. If you dont have any stores near you, look for those who are willing to sit through movies like LotR, Conan, Beastmaster (the first one), any of the SW movies, and, of course, Excalibur. You will find they watch them for the roles people played, and may be interested in trying some of those roles out :)

Sorry for taking up alot of space!

reliant
26 August 2002, 06:38 AM
My gaming group has a couple of girls in it. The number of women keeps going up as more of us convince our significant others to join in the fun.

Oh, and about the nerd thing...

Yeah, I'm a nerd. I collect comics, I role-play, I've seen Star Wars more times than I could possibly count, I camped out for tickets to Episode 1, I waited in line for hours to get into the opening show for Ep 2, I drove halfway across the country to go to Celebration 2, I own 99% of the Star Wars novels, well you get the point... The point being, I'm okay with being a nerd.

Besides, I do get outside from time to time...

AND I have a girlfriend who is attractive and smart and a recently converted nerd (although I don't think she would admit it). She was resistant about RPing, but once she tried it she was hooked. And I drag her to all the stuff I go to, so she's a nerd by proxy... :D

Oops... I just noticed how far off target I am from the original post... I don't think it's any harder to get women to role-play than anyone else. You just have to find a game that matches with their interests and then you're off and running. To find women who would like to play SWRPG you just have to find women who like Star Wars and then convince them to give it a try.

Anikka Nesson
30 August 2002, 10:21 AM
I'm the only girl in most of the RP groups I go to. (Hunter, Hero, and Rifts)
The SWRP group I was with, (and thoughly enjoyed until they referd to my Wookie as an Ewok), consisted of two girls and two guys.
It disbanded due to our GM moving away and my being the only one willing to drive there to game. It was my favrote RPG to, so upsetting.

more on topic:
I cannot count the times I have been looking through RPG books at our local bookstore and had a guy come up and look through books next to me and never say any thing. When people do that they come off as spooky, so don't do that.
Just say something like:
"What did you think of the changes they made with the new core rulebook?"
if she freaks out don't worry, she could be a closet gamer, like many girls.
or she might give you a real answer.

final thoughts:
everyone needs to escape, RPG is a great way to do it,
i don't know why more women don't play, as given as we are to drama.

all that has probably been said already, but as a girl i felt compelled to add something.

Kanner Ra'an
1 September 2002, 08:03 AM
A girl actually got me into RPing. She was running an all girl game and wanted to get a few guys in their group. she'd seen me in the star wars book section and invited me for a game. ever since then i've been hooked, i even got some of my other friends to join. (by the way, she is VERY hot, though she doesnt think so)

Dr_Worm
1 September 2002, 01:22 PM
Back in the day (85-90) when I was an avid gamer there were no girls (yes girls) that RPed. I knew a bunch of different groups, but none of them had girl players. Sure a few of the studlier Nerds had girlfriends, but none of them played. I took a nearly ten year sabbatical from gaming after highschool and as I started my family, and when I finnaly entered a RPG store for the forst time in a decade I awas amazed. THERE WERE FEMALES HERE!

Not just girls either (though they were there too), women ranging in age from 18-38 (by visual guess) were in the store. To be honest I was stunned. I kept looking for one of them to grab their boyfriends coat and say "come on Derrik this is sooo lame." However my stereotype was shattered as, on that particualr day, 3 of the twentysomthings were together and planning a Vamp campaign. I swear I must have looked like a gawking fool.

Now to this day I still do not game with any females in person (however I rarely game in person due to life constraints), but I would be most eager to try. I have met some great women here on the boards who are very creative and forthcomming in their RPG work (Vixen, dragonseye, and many others...) However the one female that I have ready access to, my wife, has no interest in gaming. Trust me...I have tried. She is even intersted in some fantasy...Tolkien, Hary Potter...but finds the idea of role-playing so boring. Getting anyone, of any gender, in to RPG if they are resistant is near impossible.


I have two pieces of advice for you to find female gamers:

1) SCA: locate your local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachonysms. They are the, somtimes freaky, people that dress in midevil garb and put on renesance fairs (they do much more than this, but this is what they are known for). Alas they often have many women who are fully enthusiastic about playing roles.
2) Goth Clubs: Goths totally get off on the whole vampire thing for the most part. I know...I was one for years and that was how I got my girlfiends to play (and that was before I knew about the game Vampire).

Of couse you never know where you might find gamers. This winter I was up on the mountain, boarding, while my wife was skiing. I nailed a my shin trying to hop a log (I am really not that good), so I stopped for the night. I went to the car to put away my stuff, and as I was doing it this woman in the car next to me leaned out of her window and asks "is that the new Rule book for Star Wars?" which I had just pulled out of a bag to find some socks. She was this hot athletic type, who I wrongly assumed would have nothing to do with roleplaying games. She was a player and had been trying to get her friend, who was with her in the car, to play. We ended up back at the lodge talking about the game and explaining the rules to her friend. Of course I knew I was gonna get my ass kicked when my wife showed up, but we had a good conversation for a while.

Alas when Kelly showed up, she was a bit peeved, but was very polite until we had left the lodge. After that...well lets just say...the heat was on, but it was a chilly ride home.

Note: I just read back at that and it sounds like a "Dragon" version of Penthouse Forum:D . Oh well...it really happened.

Dr_Worm
1 September 2002, 02:45 PM
Another thing I was reminded of this:

PvP Online (http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20020728)

Enjoy