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View Full Version : RANT: People who post a thread for feedback, but don't really want any!



Darklighter
4 September 2002, 05:32 AM
OK, this is a rant, in case you missed the header. Normally I'm fairly composed, but since this is the forum in which one VENTS their peeves, I'm cutting loose.

For about the third or fourth time in the last few months, I've seen threads to which I've responded, or at least followed for the conversation, where a person has posted with what seems to be the goal of FEEDBACK! They then proceed to either: a) be shocked by the differing viewpoint, or b) to slap down all other perspectives out of hand, holding tightly to, what has now been revealed as, a very narrow and hard-held position!

If you don't want feedback, and aren't open to entertaining a variety of responses, don't bother fxxking posting!! Don't waste my time, or anyone else's. I HATE putting together very careful and well-thought out responses only to come up against a brick wall I didn't know was there. It pisses me off!! :mad: :mad:

OK, I'm done.

*takes deep breath, letting it out slowly*

I'm better now. :)

dragonseye
4 September 2002, 06:16 AM
Yes, I've come across this before as well. That, and it seems like everyone's just a bit too tense on here- at least in the past few weeks- I'd use another word that ends with itchy, but it would of been censored... :)

I guess don't worry too much about it; that's just how some people are. :)

Nova Spice
4 September 2002, 03:49 PM
Well, unfortunately, some folks have the tendency to post threads solely on the hopes that they will get others to agree with them, rather than an opinion that goes contrary to their original question/statement/reply.

In other words, it seems like they want feedback, but in all reality, they just want others to agree with them or give them a pat on the back. :D

That doesn't bother me, but I can understand getting upset when you reply with a differing viewpoint only to get bashed/flamed/belittled. In fact, sometimes its hard not to just reply with a sarcastic comment just to spite them, but you have to be bigger than that and just vent in a forum like this.

Basically, this forum is one big happy self-expression group! Use it to its fullest! :D :p

scottyboy
4 September 2002, 04:29 PM
I just read a thread today, where one person was doing that exact thing Darklighter. He seemed like he wanted input, but then when he got some, he just sat there and argued, and argued, and argued. When all the other people were just trying to help him out, and make things UNDERSTANDABLE. Yet he still just bashed each person, one by one. Telling them they were wrong. What's the point in posting if you don't want other people's opinions. The last thing I have to say about this is... if you don't want people's opinions, then you should be writing e-mail's to yourself and not posting anything here!

Jedi_Staailis
4 September 2002, 04:55 PM
I'm going to agree with Darklighter, with some reservations. It's one thing to post something, ask for feedback, and then expect others to agree just so someone agrees. It's another entirely to post something, hoping that others will find the holes that you missed. If they're arguing something you've already considered, and have decided against, you're perfectly entitled to explain why you made the decision you did, and why you feel other positions are wrong.

For example, lets say Holonetter 1 designs a new weapon and posts the stats. In designing the weapon, said Holonetter has considered and balanced the damage to limiting factors, like the weight and range. Holonetter 2 comes along and says that the weapon's ammo capacity is way too high, citing that nobody would be able to fit that many rockets into a weapon that small. Holonetter 1 has gotten the feedback he or she wants, and adjusts his or her design according. If, on the other hand, Holonetter 2 starts saying the weapon is far too powerful because the high damage overshadows the weight, Holonetter 1 can, and should, explain why he balanced those factors as he or she did.

This is a slight difference, and it's often difficult to determine whether a person is discouting opinions for legitimate reasons and actual logic, or whether the person is simply coming up with justifications so he or she can be "right." We need to be careful before we jump to any conclusions.

shadow145
4 September 2002, 07:02 PM
Amen Darklighter

I don't post often and that's part of the reason why. I can deal with criticism, but condescension is something else entirely, and if the post is the one I think you and scottyboy are referring too, I did feel somewhat insulted.

I started off arguing a point to help with his dilemma, and then not only had my argument picked apart (which I can deal with, we're a forum for just that) but also talked down to. Okay, I'm up for a challenge, so I reply refuting his points. He replies and again there is that overriding sense of superiority. At that point I gave up and quit posting (actually I had to put up blinds and work, and the forum was closed before I could post again).

Anyhow, I now know better than to reply to certain people's posts. Waste of time, and if I want to be insulted I have a wife for that. Maybe if the post is actually about what he wants to argue and in the right forum I'll take part, but I don't need the ambush in a RPG rules forum.

Darklighter
4 September 2002, 07:58 PM
Hey, thanks guys. I see I'm not the only one who's witnessed the phenomena before. Sadly, you're right dragonseye - that is how some people are.

scottyboy and Shadow145, you guys know about the particular thread that set this rant off. (It stands out as the worst, and latest, example of what I'm talking about. Kind of like a big straw of lead that crushed the camel's back, legs, neck, etc. ;) ) Novaspice nailed a subtler variation I've seen a couple of times as well.

So I'm not alone on this, and that's nice.

Jedi Staalis makes a very apt point as well. I've actually been that stats poster, and walked that fine line between taking and incorporating feedback, and defending the balance of the equipment I created. No one likes to get ambushed for their feedback, and by the same token, if an idea is inappropriate or problematic in some way, an explanation as to why should be forthcoming - preferably one not dripping in arrogance and condescension.

I think it's very important, though, that threads remain constructive. If they don't, and people are trolling for fights, it'll leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. The Holonet, as far as I've seen, engenders a largely positive feeling, and I'd like to see it stay that way.

By the way, this particular thread has been a wonderful catharsis. I'm feeling a lot better about the whole thing. Thanks guys, for sharing my pain. :)

Seghast
4 September 2002, 09:31 PM
I'm right, you're wrong, and that's the bottom line!

j/k

I have to agree with everyone that such behavior in threads is...irritating. I'm sure we've all done it ourselves, once or twice. *coughs*

I don't know about anyone else here, but I get enough to that attitude from the people around me in the world at large, be it home, work, or wherever. None of us should have to put up with it online. Places online like the HoloNet are supposed to be (in my opinion) a refuge from that kind of crap that the rest of the world offers.

It's a sad thing when even your refuge becomes bombarded by such bitterness and argueing. :(

Prof. Tricky
5 September 2002, 04:45 AM
Rants like this make me think of overlord...

scottyboy
5 September 2002, 04:56 AM
Seghast, you just put it perfectly! I enjoy posting on the holonet. It's fun giving people feedback, and getting feedback on my ideas, in turn. That's what makes this thing so good. It become less and less "fun", to post when all your going to get in return is negativity. I mean sure, it's fine to disagree with people, but putting them down in the process is just uncalled for. There's no point in it. Are these people just trying to make themselves feel better, or what? Know what I mean. It's just F***ING annoying!

BRodgers
5 September 2002, 07:51 AM
Of course you can just follow the BRodgers method of handling irritating posts:

1) Keep it in perspective. These discussions are about a work of fiction , or a game based off of a work of fiction, thus any threads that deteriorate into arguments or gripe sessions are to be outright avoided.

2) If I dont like your post, your opinion, or your attitude I will turn away and pretend I never saw your post, and, in the future will ignore any additional posts you make. Since I am reading this for enjoyment, I have every right to do that.

Everyone would be VERY surprised at how infuriated immature posters will get if you simply overlook them and refuse to acknowledge them on the boards. In fact, if everyone did this the "less desireable" posters would more than likely fade away and never be heard from again.

Granted, as a moderator, I'm not always able to avoid "controversial" threads or posts. But, on the other side of the coin, I can outright delete and entire thread with the touch of a button. It all comes down to how much I'm willing to tolerate.

Of course I TRY to be fair...

Anyway, keep it in perspective and dont be afraid to ignore a post or two...your blood pressure will drop and you will feel better at the end of the day.


;)

scottyboy
5 September 2002, 09:23 AM
Very sound advice BRodgers! What you're saying makes sense. It's uncalled for, for people to argue, and try to belittle other people. But just don't let it bother you. Guess I should practice that, huh?

BRodgers
5 September 2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by scottyboy
Very sound advice BRodgers! What you're saying makes sense. It's uncalled for, for people to argue, and try to belittle other people. But just don't let it bother you. Guess I should practice that, huh?

Everyone should Scottyboy ,

at least if they are serious about not wanting to get into arguments and fights and aremore concerned about supporting a healthy community. Ignoring troublesome posters will result in the troublemaker going away and not coming back or saying something insulting that will more than likely get them banned.

At least thats always worked for me. You are also looking at a guy who has no time to waste on arguments. Every second I spend reading a useless/argumentative post is time I could be spending on a million other more important and productive things I have going on.
Responding to those posts is even worse and means I just wasted MORE of my time and "breath" on someone who doesnt really deserve it.

:)

Matt Richard
6 September 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Prof. Tricky
Rants like this make me think of overlord...

In the future, if you have a problem with a specific member, please follow the HoloNet rules of curtesy and take it up with the individual PRIVATELY, not in public like this, which could potetnially start a flamewar.

VixenofVenus
6 September 2002, 06:22 PM
FlipDog and VixenofVenus

Vix -One, Two, Three, Four
Flip -I Declare A Flame War

Reverend Strone
6 September 2002, 07:39 PM
I suppose in the end it should come down to a simple case of respect for divergent opinions- something the Holonet is generally pretty good for. That's certainly why I post here and not over at the WOTC Boards. But unfortunately, while one can respect an opinion and still argue with it, there are other motivations for posting that cloud the issue.

It's been my observation that people post for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's an ego trip, "look at me, my opinion is more valid and informed than everyone else's". Some kind of gratification is taken from feeling you're an informer rather than being open to being informed.

Darklighter you are absolutely right to raise this subject, especially since the thread in question burned it's rather destructive swathe through a good number of well respected Holonetters including yourself.

There's definately a difference between discussing various scenarios for solving a problem and what has happened. In the thread in question, arguements were not so much exchanged as picked apart systematically, and with more than a small measure of condascendance and pride. There seemed to be an undercurrent of pride running through at least one poster's comments which was ridiculous, considering all the arguements being put forward by either camp were based on opninions, assumptions, interpretations and impressions. No one was right or wrong, they just differed in interpretation, but unfortunately the old pride came into play and it couldn't just be left at that. Feedback it seems was wanted, but only inorder to prop up and vindicate an pre-existing conclusion.

Star Wars Role Playing is fun, and the Holonet was established to promote and celebrate that- sharing ideas and opinions constructively to enhance eachother's enjoyment of the game. Prideful arguements seldom are fun, and as such they really have no place here. People need to get over themselves, relax and enjoy themselves.

Hopefully by the raising of this topic, for a short while at least, folks might remember that again, and some good will come of it.

I should also add,- of course, that's just the way I see it, and it doesn't mean that's the way it is.

Nova Spice
6 September 2002, 11:25 PM
Wow.....people say I have a high vocabulary, but I must say, Reverend you have a way with words that I could never achieve! :D

I suppose the only decent thing to add from my initial comment in this thread, is that many times people who ask for an opinion and bash an opinion contrary to their's, is in essence, one thing and one thing only:immature.

In some cases this could simply be a reflection of age, but in others its a case of pride as Reverend said or a simple attitude of "I'm better than you." Both of these cases are detrimental to the Holonet members and the threads. Unfortunately, we can only hope this thread influences others so that situations like the one being discussed, is a rare thing indeed. ;)

Anyway, that's my two cents worth for ya Darklighter. :p

dgswensen
7 September 2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone

It's been my observation that people post for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's an ego trip, "look at me, my opinion is more valid and informed than everyone else's". Some kind of gratification is taken from feeling you're an informer rather than being open to being informed.


I think you just broke down the whole core of arguing on the Internet. That's exactly it. I've seen that so many times (I've probably been guilty of it too, in my day). Very perceptive.


I should also add,- of course, that's just the way I see it, and it doesn't mean that's the way it is.

There should be some kind of shorthand for this kind of disclaimer... it gets made so often :) (I know IMHO is meant to fill that role, but I think a lot of people tend to gloss over it.)

Anyway, well said, sir.

Matt Richard
7 September 2002, 10:22 AM
Well, darklighter, I must say that I totally agree with you. THis is a problem that needs to be fixed, although no one is ever really sure how. You kind of have to get used to these imature people and sometimes it may be best to just ignore them and report them to a moderator.

Now, in this thread, we had a perfect example of an imature poster. Not necesarily in the way you describe, but they all fall in the same category. They do that, because they think they can get away with it, not realizing that they are making a fool of themselves in front of everyone.

But, you have to live with them, and in the end, no one will ever have an answer on how to solve this problem. We just try to go about as best as we can

Reverend Strone
8 September 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
It's been my observation that people post for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's an ego trip, "look at me, my opinion is more valid and informed than everyone else's". Some kind of gratification is taken from feeling you're an informer rather than being open to being informed.



Originally posted by dgswensen
I think you just broke down the whole core of arguing on the Internet. That's exactly it. I've seen that so many times (I've probably been guilty of it too, in my day). Very perceptive.

Oh man- I'm totally guilty of it too. It's such an easy trap to fall in to. If any of you guys ever see me doing it- please, pull me up on it. A little dose of humility is a healthy thing every now and again, and I'm as guilty as the next guy of getting ahead of myself.

Nova you're absolutely right on the maturity thing too, and I must say, I've been surprised around here by posters' ages, so as you said, in using that word you're talking about emotional age rather than actual years. Some of the folks I respect the most around here have turned out to be surprisingly spritely in years, and some that I assumed from their posts were snotty teens have ended up being much older (no offence to our many excellent teenage posters).


Originally poted by Matt Richard
But, you have to live with them, and in the end, no one will ever have an answer on how to solve this problem. We just try to go about as best as we can

As always- a voice of reason and source of sensible advice is our Matt. In the end, what else can you do. You're so right man.

Just to say also- there's some mighty cool people who've posted on this thread; folks with informed and rational natures. When this many really great Holonetters start talking about it, you realise what a problem it must be. Sadly, there's probably not much to be done about it, but be mature and let live, like Matt suggested.

Darklighter
8 September 2002, 07:45 PM
First, I'd like to say that the comments on this thread have been outstanding. Just about all of you have given me pause to think and reflect, and I thank you for that.

Some of you have talked about what brings you to the Holonet, and so I think I'd like to share with you why I come here.

I haven't actually been a member of the Holonet all that long - 4 months and a bit, I think. Prior to that, I'd scrolled on-line sites for the RPG or Star Wars stuff in general. I suppose it was inevitable that I would stumble upon the Holonet, but even when I did, I was hesitant. I've always been a bit of a shy type, cautious to engage the new people, and so I was a lurker - sort of poking around and checking it out.

And I found myself increasingly interested in, and fascinated by this community. As I've gradually increased my participation here, I find that what keeps me coming back is the sharing of ideas and solutions, and the generally creative nature of this community - and at the same time, we're building and participating in exactly that, a community.

This place not only is fun in and of itself, with each of us providing others with entertainment as we interact, we open doors for each other - create possibilities - that expand our enjoyment of both the SW universe and our games.

I like that. I think I've made a few friends here, and I like that, too. Like Seghast, this place has become a bit of a refuge for me.

Dust-ups among members will occur, I suppose. I suspect that they usually blow over. Matt, thanks for quashing the spark of a flame war, by the way. I never wanted that here.

Rev, I didn't know I was well respected! ;) As you can see, your words struck a powerful chord with me and a number of others here as well.

So it's clear that the ideal would be for members to conduct themselves with a degree of mutual repect and consideration. But reality and the ideal occasionally diverge, so I think that I'm going to adopt the "Bob Rodgers principles for dealing with unconstructive posts and posters", and just start ignoring them. I think we'll all still find ourselves in threads where this stuff occurs, and it'll surprise us every time, but experience can equip us to respond in the healthiest manner, if we're prepared to learn from that experience.

And I guess it is important to keep it in perspective. Most of what happens on the Holonet is positive - all those things that keep me coming back. This thread, even though it addresses an uglier sort of concern here, stands out as an example of the spirit in which holonetters can conduct themselves when they are at their best. It is this spirit that dominates the threads here, and it's why I return to the forums. :)

Grimace
8 September 2002, 08:15 PM
I just want you guys to know that you're complaints aren't falling on deaf ears. We, the moderators here, try to deal with the people that are problematic. We offer advice and try to get them to understand that everyone is here to enjoy themselves and not get into heated arguements or flame wars. With the massive amount of new members, though, we can't catch all of the instances when this happens.

If future events occur that are frustrating, please don't hesistate to contact a moderator and tell them of the thread in question. We don't want anyone to become "gun shy" on this site due to the actions of others, so please let us know.

Speaking for myself, I appreciate all of you who care enough to try to help the community. You guys make this site fun and enjoyable, and make moderating worth it. So keep a stiff upper lip and let us know if any other threads start to run amuck.

dragonseye
8 September 2002, 09:49 PM
Grimace,

Well, I certainly appreciate everything you go through to keep the Holonet running at a smooth pace. And I'm sure I haven't always been the absolute perfect member at times, but I certainly try to behave myself. Anyways, thanks for all the headaches you have gone through to watch over the Holonet. It is greatly appreciated.

Darklighter,

I understand being shy; I've been that way most of my life and probably never will fullly grow out of it. I do agree, I've met a few people on here with whom I've become friends, and it's alway great meeting people from other places.

The biggest thing with me is that I usually take everything with a grain of salt. We can't always be perfect, especially when life decides to do a belly flop on you. Just don't automatically give up on a person after a single bad post. It's entirely possible that they may have had a single very bad day while the rest of the time they're infact a good person to speak with. Of course, it's not an excuse, but we all have bad times.

Seghast
8 September 2002, 10:51 PM
Dragonseye brings up a good point; one bad post (or a couple) may have been the result of a bad day (though admittedly, it's a situation where outside problems should be left outside), and the person isn't usually such a jackass.

Take me for example. I'm smart mouthed, sometimes a bit crude with my language on here, and my first few posts earned me hatred and scorn real fast (I have lots of bad days). However, I'd like to hope that I'm slowly showing I'm not the evil demonspawn of Satan I was first mistaken for. We all make mistakes, but should we be judged by a few posts?

It's definitely possible that other people are having the same or similar issues. That's something we all need to keep in mind. Bad days happen, bad posts happen, and people make mistakes. I know the thread that was the "inspiration" for this thread (as all of us undoubtedly do by now), and let's assume that that's all it was. That person had a bad day, or two, and let it get to him. Let's assume he's not usually like that.

And if that assumption proves to be wrong in time? Oh well, we made a mistake. We can forget it and move on. We're mature adults for the most part (I'm still a Toys R' Us kid...at heart, anyway).

And I think I'll shut up now before I ramble on uselessly any longer. :)

The Admiral
9 September 2002, 12:16 PM
To echo Grimace, the Moderators are trying hard to keep annoying posters in line. No one should be afraid to hit the 'Report' button, it's the quickest way to get a given post / thread under the nose of the relevant Moderator.

evan hansen
9 September 2002, 12:29 PM
*uses the report button to report The Admiral for something as annoying as MERELY ECHOING Grimace's statement*

;-)

The Admiral
9 September 2002, 12:35 PM
Hey, don't you start mano, you're probably the most annoying poster here! lol :-)
One of my echoes is worth ten full replies! :-D

evan hansen
9 September 2002, 12:40 PM
LMAO - Can I use that as a quote in the opening to my new supplement? That's just too funny.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
10 September 2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Seghast
Dragonseye brings up a good point; one bad post (or a couple) may have been the result of a bad day

I am going to agree with this. Recently, while in sort of a sour mood, I let the keyboard get away from me and dropped what was apparently too many insults in WotC's direction. After getting a stop-or-be-banned order, I re-read my post, and it didn't seem to be something I would have usually posted, but hey, I did. Thankfully, I'm still here, but I shall be hesitant to post such things again or to post replies at all when peeved off at other stuff.