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Wedge in Red2
16 September 2002, 06:28 AM
Hi all,

Does anyone know where there are any stats for any of the Jedi in the New Republic era? Particularly I'm looking at the time after the Jedi Academy trilogy (i.e. pre-NJO). I'm confident I can find or extrapolate Luke's stats ;), but I'd be kind of keen to see some for the likes of Kyp Durron, Chignal (sp?), Kirana Ti, Dorsk 81, etc. Are they in any of the SW Gamers or anything?

Otherwise, I'll just make them up I guess...

Thanks in advance for your help,

Jon :)

Deck
16 September 2002, 06:42 AM
Hey, good news!

There exists an entire sourcebook (WEG) of the Jedi Academy! It's called <i>Jedi Academy Sourcebook</i>. There you'll find plenty of stats for characters. :)

Nova Spice
16 September 2002, 04:16 PM
I happen to have home-made stats for Kirana Ti (D20) if you'd like me to send them to you in a PM? I'm currently working on Dorsk 82 (since Dorsk 81 is dead), but since they are clones it would basically be the same.

Let me know if you are interested Wedge. ;)

Wedge in Red2
17 September 2002, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Deck
Hey, good news!

There exists an entire sourcebook (WEG) of the Jedi Academy! It's called <i>Jedi Academy Sourcebook</i>. There you'll find plenty of stats for characters. :)

Ah, sorry, my mistake for not specifying I'm after D20 stats :). I remember the sourcebook you mentioned as I read the thread on the D6 forum where they were talking about burning it...

How difficult is it to convert the stats? I've done a few conversions from D6 to D20, but they have largely been low level characters, and as such I haven't needed to work out any difficult stuff like what their level was, etc. Also, being Jedi means you have to work out their force skills and feats...another challenge.

Nova Spice: Thanks, I will PM you in a few days when I have some spare time...

Thanks both of you,

Jon

P.S. Do any of the stats appear in the NJO sourcebook? I don't have it, as I'm not a big fan of the Vong (don't shoot me, please :)). However, a friend of mine does and I can borrow it from him if the stats appear there...

Jim Williams
17 September 2002, 01:20 PM
The only problem is the NJO sourcebook would have their higher level stats (and some prominent folks are missing I understand....).

I guess I would go with the basis that at the and of RotJ Luke is a Fringer 2/JG 7. By the Jedi Academy Trilogy, he's been through quite a bit, especially if you go by all the EU stuff. I'm tempted to take a guess at Luke's level, and then you can guage everyone from there. Maybe he's Fringer 2/JG 10? 11? IMO Corran is the only one that can match him by levels, but no where near in Jedi levels. And Kyp has his own version of the Skywalker effect going on I guess.

Anyway, I don't know of any collection of d20 stats, but I'm sure they'll be in the NRESB! I'd have fun making them up that's for sure.

Ardent
18 September 2002, 08:40 PM
Well, this is just a quick rundown on my thoughts on the subject.

Luke Skywalker at the beginning of the Jedi Academy trilogy is a Frg2/JG 11 (everyone loves to forget all the stuff that happens in six years).

Kam Solusar is a JG5/JWM2 (yes, technically a Jedi Knight) but a tainted character at the time of his discovery by Skywalker.

Tionne is a Noble 1/JC3/Jedi Scholar 2.

Cilghal is a Tech Specialist 2/JC3/Jedi Healer 3.

Dorsk 81 was an Expert1/JG7 at the time of his death.

Dorsk 82 is an Expert1/JG1.

Gantoris is a Frg3/JG6 at the time of his betrayal.

Streen is a Frg2/JC4.

Kyp Durron is a Frg2/JG6 at the time of his corruption.

Kirana Ti is a FA4/JG3 (although I'd drop a few levels of both classes in favor of a Force Witch PrC if it existed).

Kieran Halcyon/Corran Horn is a Scn1/Sol6/SA4/JG1 as he enters the praxeum (much later than most of the others have begun THEIR training).

JTessier3
5 October 2002, 03:12 PM
Ardent, I have found the stats for Kyp at the time of his corruption. They are in the Dark Side Sourcebook, and I won't post them on the web. I'd probably get sued or forced off the web like Nagzul and his character generation tools... but that's another thread.

anyways... it shows him to be a JG4/Fr2 at that time.

Anyways...

KOS!

JTessier3
5 October 2002, 03:16 PM
Ardent... here's the Levels for Kyp while he's in the Jedi Academy. He's the only one I've found in that founding class at the time...

JG4/Fr2

Ardent
5 October 2002, 03:34 PM
I appreciate, the effort J, but the DSSB was written before the updated rules and, effectively, isn't necessarily still accurate.

I'm of the opinion that at the time the students defeated Exar Kun they were all at/close to 7th level (although not [i]necessarily[/] 7th Jedi level), and that the Dark Man was their 'trial.' Any of them at 7th Jedi level would be Jedi Knights, and the rest would gain their Knight feat upon attaining their 7th Jedi level, although it certainly wouldn't have been the last chance for the students to show their stuff.

BrianDavion
5 October 2002, 04:47 PM
JTessier, where did you get those stats?

JTessier3
5 October 2002, 04:49 PM
I'd have to disagree with you, ardent, and I have a comparison to offer. If the trial of the Cave was not the test to prove Luke's Knighthood, then would it not be the same for Kyp and Gantoris?

Just my two cents.

JTessier3
5 October 2002, 04:51 PM
Davion, I got them from the Dark Side Sourcebook. It's listed in there, and as far as I remember, Argent... the rules haven't changed for the prestige classes going from DSSB to the New Core Rulebook.

Ardent
5 October 2002, 05:07 PM
Gantoris is dead by the time the students confront Exar Kun. Kyp is not present on Yavin IV at the time of Exar Kun's defeat (he was off blowing up Carida).

Neither Gantoris nor Kyp would be an appropriate subject to base your argument on.

BrianDavion
5 October 2002, 05:15 PM
O.o only person from the jedi academy trilogy I saw in my DSSB was exaur kun.. hmm can I get a page referance?

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
5 October 2002, 07:10 PM
Page 104-5 right before Exar-Kun's entry.

BrianDavion
5 October 2002, 07:53 PM
hey what do ya know. your right

Tramp
10 October 2002, 01:14 PM
Personally, what I'd like to see are current NJO era stats for Tionne and the others not in the NJOSB. I was a little disappointed that they didn't show up in the PotJSB either.

JTessier3
10 October 2002, 02:11 PM
Ardent, didn't Exar Kun kill Gantoris? From what you implied, it was to infer that Gantoris never faced Kun. He did. That's what killed Gantoris.

I may be wrong, but that's what we have people like the moderators who have a lot more knowledge than I. LOL

Anyways....

KEEP ON SWAGGING!!!

Ardent
10 October 2002, 06:29 PM
Exar Kun did kill Gantoris (at least, that's the conclusion Corran Horn reached), but Gantoris never faced Exar Kun with the intent of combat. He was just a failure, insofar as Kun thought, and so...he died.

Wedge in Red2
15 October 2002, 09:12 AM
First up, apologies for not replying to this thread for quite some time. My holonetting has been severely limited by real life :(.


Originally posted by Ardent
I appreciate, the effort J, but the DSSB was written before the updated rules and, effectively, isn't necessarily still accurate.

I'm of the opinion that at the time the students defeated Exar Kun they were all at/close to 7th level (although not [i]necessarily[/] 7th Jedi level), and that the Dark Man was their 'trial.' Any of them at 7th Jedi level would be Jedi Knights, and the rest would gain their Knight feat upon attaining their 7th Jedi level, although it certainly wouldn't have been the last chance for the students to show their stuff.

I have to say that the levels you gave seemed pretty high to me, but that's just my opinion :). You mention that at the time of their defeat of Exar Kun they were all at/close to 7th level. However, the levels you have mentioned in your earlier post had most at 7th level with a few even higher (Dorsk 81& Cilghal 8th).

My opinion is that a 6th level Jedi is pretty kick ass. While not all their levels are in Jedi classes, I think the character levels you set down would mean the characters are pretty tough. I just didn't get the feeling from the Jedi Academy novels that they were that...well...competant :). Dorsk 81 and Tionne in particular (Dorsk was constantly failing exercises, like the one in the hot pool, and Tionne was described as having only very minor ability with the force).

Anyway, that's my 2cr on the subject. Feel free to rebuff my arguments, I am in no way stating my opinion is fact :).

Jon

BrianDavion
15 October 2002, 11:04 AM
I'd almost be inclined to grab the D&d 3E Bard class and convert it to SW. and give Tionne stats like
bard 4/JG 1.

Ardent
15 October 2002, 02:36 PM
I'd almost be inclined to grab the D&d 3E Bard class and convert it to SW. and give Tionne stats like

The Noble class functions more than admirably for a Bard, given the correct bonus class skill and skill choices.

Secondly, I've already put together stats for a lot of characters introduced in the Jedi Academy trilogy (Kam, Tionne, Streen, Kirana Ti, etc), and while I can't be certain they'll pass final muster, all of the reactions have been positive and the only real criticism has been that I don't have/use a generator to double-check my work (that is to say, everything is done by hand) so here and there I forget a class bonus feat or something, but everyone is great about pointing out my errors.

Wedge, while I sort of agree with the idea that most of the Jedi students don't seem to be all that skilled, it's simply because we're not dealing with their area of expertise in the novels. By the time they face Exar Kun, they're more or less comfortable with, and capable with, their abilities. In my humble opinion, that's what a Padawan is like right before they enter their Knight trial. Nobody said the Knight trial has to happen here now and for this reason. So what if they only have 5 Jedi levels, they have 8 heroic levels! They're not Old Republic Jedi, they won't necessarily be bound to the same constraints as their forebears. Heck, Corran Horn is like a 10th level heroic character before he even finds out he's Force-Sensitive.

Finally, the beauty of the Jedi Knights is that they learn not to rely on the Force. A Jedi is only as capable as his or her skills allow, and Tionne is more than capable at making up for any "inadequacy" with the Force with her entertainment, research and teaching skills. I think Yoda said it best when he said "Size matters not," and it definitely applies to the relative measure of strength in the Force. I mean, how useful are your 20 ranks of Battlemind if the battle is on Corellia and you're on Tatooine with 0 ranks of Pilot and Astrogation?

Wedge in Red2
16 October 2002, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Ardent

Wedge, while I sort of agree with the idea that most of the Jedi students don't seem to be all that skilled, it's simply because we're not dealing with their area of expertise in the novels. By the time they face Exar Kun, they're more or less comfortable with, and capable with, their abilities. In my humble opinion, that's what a Padawan is like right before they enter their Knight trial. Nobody said the Knight trial has to happen here now and for this reason. So what if they only have 5 Jedi levels, they have 8 heroic levels! They're not Old Republic Jedi, they won't necessarily be bound to the same constraints as their forebears. Heck, Corran Horn is like a 10th level heroic character before he even finds out he's Force-Sensitive.

While I would agree that you canít compare New Republic Jedi with Old Republic Jedi, I would like to throw in a comparison here. We see Obi-Wan as a Padawan yet to undergo the trials in Episode 1. He is blocking blaster bolts, knocking people over with telekinesis, making those big Force Jumps, etc. In the Jedi Academy I didnít think any of the students displayed nearly as much control of the Force as Obi-Wan. I think the way the students defeated Exar Kun was through their unity, rather than through their individual abilities. They presented a united front to Kun, and that (along with the symbolic crossing of the lightsabers: Lukes and Gantorisís) defeated Kun.

Itís a tough call. While it does seem that the defeat of Exar Kun was like their final trial, I seem to remember only Kyp being conferred the rank of Jedi Knight. What that has to do with the issue at hand, I don't know :). I havenít read enough of the material after Jedi Academy to determine how close to being conferred the rank the others were.


Finally, the beauty of the Jedi Knights is that they learn not to rely on the Force. A Jedi is only as capable as his or her skills allow, and Tionne is more than capable at making up for any "inadequacy" with the Force with her entertainment, research and teaching skills. [/B]

Yes, I agree. While we havenít touched on specific stats, I would say that Tionne would not have a lot of ranks in force skills, but would probably have plenty in Knowledge (Jedi Lore), Entertain, etc.

Anyway, once again, that's my 2cr, do with it what you will :D.

Jon