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JediMoonkea
17 September 2002, 10:26 PM
NOTE: QUITE A BIT TO READ, I'VE JUST FOUND THE COLOUR SO I'M EXPERIMENTING, DONT WORRY ABOUT IT

Ok, first of all, I'm a newbie to these boards but I'm don't need any help at being that. I'm here becuase I have a problem with a certain Ewok.

Problem
I have an Ewok who wants to gamble whenever possible, and he uses outragous attacks at the first sign of a fight, even though he and his Kel Dor team mate are both Jedi. I want them to get on with the task in hand, but this Ewok doesn't seem to understand.

Situation
The situation that I'm faced with is what to do. Ignoring him wouldn't be a good choice but if I allow him to go gambling, out of an hour playing session, 10 minutes is usually spent gambling. It may not sound like a large length of time but I'd like to think that my players could get most of the way through a simple mission in that time. But no. This Ewok wants to drink and gamble his life away.
We had a conversation in the last session (Tuesday) and it went something like this (and this is where I experiment with the Colour button I've just found). Ewok, Kel Dor, GM:
Players have somehow arrived on Tatooine, I discuss whats going on. "I wanna Gamble"
"You can't see any dedicated gambling locations"
"But I wanna gamble"
"All that happens here is drinking and betting at the races"
"Can I ask someone when the next Podrace is"
He asks a local and gets an answer of three weeks
"Fine, we'll wait 3 weeks and go to the races"
"If you all you do is wait, you'll die of starvation and thirst, even if you did eat and drink, the races are betting, not gambling"
"Argh, fine let's go into a bar, there will be people who want to gamble"
"No, there will be people drinking and cramped into every space available"
"Lets get on with the mission! I don't want to gamble, its a waste of time"
And the players finally got on with the mission.
When the fights broke out, all the Ewok wanted to do was stab and slash in any way possible, with no care for the innocent around him. He's only about half way into being tainted (If that's unclear, he has 3 or 4 DSP's to get before being tainted).

The Question
What can I do with him? If he carries on wanting to do these attacks, he'll be aligned with the Dark Side and I'll have to send the Kel Dor out to get rid of him. If I refuse to do most things he says, he'll leave and I'll be left with one player (I think there is a post about having one player, I'll read that in a mo). Can any one help me?

What can I do with this bloomin' Ewok?

Haradim
17 September 2002, 11:13 PM
You could confront him, and tell him that he is disrupting the game with his actions.

Then you might wish to find out for certain just what that player actually wants from the game; I personally cannot see any long-term fun from being a gambling addict. Try to find out just why he's playing, and make sure he's clear on your own expectations of player behaviour. If the two simply cannot mix, well, it could prove better to just let him leave. It won't be fun if the game is being dragged down by one person due to opposing views of how the game is intended to be played, and if everyone isn't having fun, then why play at all?

If he starts threatening to leave and taking your campaign down with him, I would advise jettisoning him straight off, and continue with what you have if you can. Perhaps even try to find some better replacement players. One player is better than nothing, and I hear (though I haven't actually tried it) that it works out really well in many cases.

Hope that's of some help.

Wade Trenor
18 September 2002, 06:01 AM
What timeline are you in? New Republic or New Jedi Order?

If you're in the New Jedi Order, remind the player that he is being hunted by the Yuuzhan Vong. Also point out that Scoundrel has Gamble as a class skill. Scoundrel is a class that appears to fit the Ewoks personality best. If he's a good roleplayer in hopefully, he'll give up his progression as a Jedi, and there is a reduced chance of him falling to the Dark Side (although that chance still exists).

For example, there's a player in my group that took levels in Soldier just because everyone else was doing it. He's now realised that since all the characters have the same class skills, that they can only do the same things, and there is very little diversity in the group. He has now multi-classed, to a class that better suits his character, and the game is much better because of it.

By the way, can the Ewok even speak Basic let alone understand it?

DCJester
18 September 2002, 06:23 AM
Well, lets see...

1: A Jedi gambling. If the gambling is an addiction, then he needs a quick reprimand for it. Part of being a Jedi is being to let go of things like such so that you are not able to be persuaded and thus possibly tainted/taken by a devious Dark Sider.

2: Combat is always tricky, because jedi should know when his life is threatened enough to use his saber, and when a stun bolt or two would suffice. If he is always using his saber to end every confrontation, then there might be a problem there.

3: Talk to the player out of game. Ask what he wants for this character, and where he plans to be in say, 5 levels. What is the motivation for this character, and why is it so strong?

4: If the player is threatening to leave, kick him out. You dont need someone with an attitude of 'If you dont like the way I play in your game, then Ill leave, and you will have to suffer'. Its your game. You do what is needed to make it fun. Sure, you will have one player. I have seen some great games come from single players. I have heard some great tales too. Plus, the single player may feel better about what he does overall.

5: Ask the second player if the trouble player is causing him to not have fun.

You can always find more people to play. It may take awhile, but sometimes all it takes is asking. You could prolly even find someone on this site that is close to where you live, and may be looking for a game. You never know :)

This guy sounds like a jerk, IMO, and should be given the swift boot. I wouldnt tolerate this kind of thing in any of my games, and have kicked people out for less. I try to work with people, but sometimes people just do not wish to work with you. Tell him to go back to playing Jedi Knight or something, he obviously thinks the Tabletop game should play like the computer one.

Just my thoughts on it...

AxiustheDark
18 September 2002, 07:33 AM
Well, I will try and not repeat too much that has been said above, though the posts above are all great advice, and I agree nearly completely with DCJester 's advice. I think every long term GM on this board has had some problem or another with players that are disruptive to their game, and I can say that the topic comes up here every so often. You can start solving this problem on more than just one front.

Solution 1
First off, some players just aren't as mature as others. They will take a game in which you have spent time designing, and attempt to waste it in crime sprees, bars, etc.... Sometimes the best way to fix this problem is to bring the problem to the player. That means making a threat more immediately dangerous to the offending person, and effectively limiting their screw off time."

Here are a few examples on how to do that: 1) Start imposing time limits on your campaigns. Like, "The Jedi Knight So-and-So will die unless you manage to find a cure to this disease by THIS TIME" or "The Rebel Attack will begin at 2400 3 days from now, and we MUST have this gun at this place by then. Or we all get killed." or "Infiltrate this organization as quickly as you can. The Coucil must have this information as soon as possible. The threat to all of us is too great for any wasted time." Etc..etc....

See how your player reacts when you add that sense of suspense to every campaign. Try to get him more interested in solving the adventure by imposing unseen limits. Maybe you could even do something like have him pick up so unknown disease, and he HAS to find the cure before such and such time so that he doesn't die. Or something equally life threatening.

If the player finds a bar somwhere, have the Bad Guys find him there. Catch him by surprise becuase he is so busy gambling. You know that the force acts in mysterious ways. (And losing dex to defense, and losing an entire round really sucks). Have something bad happen to his character when he screws off. Jedi gambling= No No.

Solution 2

A Jedi gambling. If the gambling is an addiction, then he needs a quick reprimand for it. Part of being a Jedi is being to let go of things like such so that you are not able to be persuaded and thus possibly tainted/taken by a devious Dark Sider.

Have the a JM, or the Council, talk to him in game. If he is not yet a Jedi Knight, put it in no uncertain terms that unless his character straightens up, that the council will not see him fit to take the Jedi Trails to become a Jedi Knight. The Council "Will not have you leaning towards the dark path. We have made this mistake in the past, and we will not make it with you. Follishness and greed leads down a road from which you cannot return."

They could even assign someone to watch him, to decide if he is still a worthy member of the order.

Solution 3

Talk to the player out of game. Ask what he wants for this character, and where he plans to be in say, 5 levels. What is the motivation for this character, and why is it so strong?

You can do this in conjuction with Solution 2. Suggest Scoundrel levels. Does this player really want to be a Jedi Knight? It doesn't sound like it. Maybe you should take a look at the Charlatan PrC/Archetype, from SWGAMER 5. They are a Force Scoundrel who makes it their life to fools others.

Solution 4
Disruptive players cannot be allowed to remain with the game. It just makes everything less fun for everybody. How can a plot be suspensful or exciting when a single player causes their to be no plot at all? I have run some really really fun single player games in my time. And they work great. So don't be afraid of that.

Here's a link of a previous thread about handling disruptive players. It should be helpful to hear some other approaches to disruptive players. Make sure you read Rigil Kent's post, as it is very good info. Click here. (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?threadid=4982&highlight=disruptive)

I hope this helps out.

Mad Tech
18 September 2002, 08:37 AM
OPTION 1
Let the Ewok gamble and win big from a grumpy trandoshan (or wookie, or hutt) that hates to loose. Unhappy loser stomps Ewok into paste. No more Ewok. Then go find another player.

OPTION 2
Buy one of those little electronic pocker games. Give it to player of Ewok and tell him to go gamble away in a corner somewhere and when he is ready to participate in the game he can come back. Then go find another player anyway.

Mad Tech

evan hansen
18 September 2002, 09:42 AM
I have a bit of a different take on this situation. In my mind, there are very few situations that can't be resolved amicably with the right solution. Ultimately, everybody wants something and only rarely do those objectives mismatch so much that there's no hope.

In this, case I would let the player do whatever he wants. My recommendation to all GMs is to let players play the game they want to play. As a GM, half the fun is planning -- but half the fun is adapting to changes brought on by players. Here are a few things to consider:

1 -- If the player's character sheet does not reflect this obsession, the player isn't playing the RPG by the rules. You're supposed to play the role of the character. Remind him of that. If it IS in his nature then you, as the GM, will have to adapt to his playing style. If the character was allowed in the game to begin with, you have to let it go. But what you can do is....

2 -- Always assign realistic consequences for actions. If a player wants to gamble, let him gamble. But it's called gambling for a reason. He won't always win. Set up a situation where you play some dice games where things are stacked against him. He'll lose in a hurry. With no money, he can't gamble -- and he might learn to avoid it a bit from time to time. And if he uses brutal methods in a fight as a Jedi, give him the DSPs or have Sith/Jedi hunters/Vong (depending on timeframe) seek him out because of his over-the-top fighting that will get him noticed. These are not methods for getting rid of a player or irritating a player as revenge. This is merely assigning the real consequences to actions within a game.

3 -- Don't come out of your role as GM. Don't bother getting out of your role to yell at him as a player. Let your actions and decisions speak for themselves to his character, so his character (and he) learns a valuable lesson. If you follow through with Number 2, you might find that he begins to understand that games aren't going to go anywhere unless he starts behaving.

4 -- Realize ahead of time that they'll trip you up, so be flexible in how you can get to your end result. IF the players are going to be goofballs then no matter what you do they'll be goofballs. Unless you want to ditch the whole game, you'll just have to adjust midstream to get them to your conclusion a different way. I would often say to myself, "These three things need to happen" but I'd never determine how until they started playing. If they went to gamble, I'd have some contact approach them in a gambling location. Or I might have the gambling place burn down one time so they had to leave. Or I might make gambling illegal before the mission even starts. Just for some variety. But, once the mission starts, if they do something unexpected, I roll with it and think up an alternate way to get my own objectives as GM accomplished.

Those are my basic suggestions in this case. Part of the problem with being a GM is that unless your players like *every* thing you do, you need to adapt and make some compromises to let them do what they need/want to do as characters. Sometimes it would be best if they didn't do that, and you can dissuade them from that. But I would suggest always trying to do so within the confines of the game and the given situation.

Best of luck!

LiquidSaber
18 September 2002, 01:56 PM
Oh yeah, a gambling ewok with a bent for the darkside...yuck. Hehe ;)

There are a couple of options. However I beieve the most desirable options will tend to result in keeping the player and simply "molding" him into a better player. It may or may not happen but you could try.

#1 Well, have him gamble, loose all his money to a Hutt & have a gambling debt, and "collection agencies" (i.e. bounty hunters) track him down.

#2 Have him win, but don't have it be credits. He wins the title of a broken down starship. Or a broken down palace that needs to be cleaned out. Do soemthing that will peek both players interests and start off a whole other set of adventures. The player will think more of your skills as a GM if you take this route.

#3 Revenge: The Ewok gets a virus that makes all his hair fall-out. The Order takes away his lightsaber and boots him. His gambling debts leave him destitute and alone, except for the brokers hunting him down. Other Ewoks shun him, others make fun of him in passing. Then a star destroyer crashes into the planet, plowing the poor litle guy a mile into the ground and his bones are vaporized and the carbon in his tissues is crsytalized by the intense pressurses and heat of the crash. Then have some Tusken raider come over and relieve himself upon the vicintiy of the crash site. Sorry, I may have gotten a little carried away there...;) ewoks (shudder).

#4 Have him contacted by a broker that can let him bet and gamble anytime he wants to. This mysterious "broker" encourages him and tries to push MORE gambling habits on the character. (anytime a character feels remotely "pushed" into doing something they should, especially if they are immature, react in opposition.) The ewok should become suspicious and may even try and kick the habit. Hopefully not as the "broker" turns out to be a Darksider trying to take control of the fuzzy warrior. Oh, and at that point remind the player all darkside characters turn into NPCs. A little house rule (a throw back to the 'Ol d6 days) for *good*-based campaigns.

#5 Recruit, recruit, recruit. MUST have better players...sorry, but do what you can to get more/better players. Grab strangers off the street with promises of free pizza and soda. Draw in hapless friends who like the movies but have never heard of "gaming". Got siblings? Cousins? Out of work uncles with nothing better to do? Hehe, grab 'em.

Best of luck to you! Hope things go better for you and may the force be with you young padawan.:p

JediMoonkea
19 September 2002, 09:09 AM
Well, here's some news:

I've recruited another player who happened to be a GM for the old rules o SW. His players didn't take him seriously and he didn't like the way they treated him, so he's come to play my game.

Hopefully, he'll stop this Ewok and get on with the mission. We will make his character on Friday and should play a bit on Friday as well, so lets see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

VixenofVenus
19 September 2002, 11:51 AM
Unless you are the only 3 people for 100 miles ... there are going to be lots of ppl around who will want to join a RPG group. I started with three (like you) and now there are six of us (my set maximum) with a waiting list of ppl ... we have other side groups and groups that I run for these others from time to time ... but at one point we had a group of ELEVEN PEOPLE trying to RPG at the same time ... now only the best of the best RPers are in the core group and the hack n' slashers, the inexperienced, the powergamers, and the short attention spanners are on the waiting list ... believe me ... it is easy to find good players ... but it takes time ... taken me 3.5 years to get this from a rag-tag group to a full-fledged RPG group.

Unfortunately ... there is only one other person who is worth beans at GMing, and I haven't ever played in his group ... hehe, so I really have NEVER had a good playing experience ... only good GM'ing experiences.


My suggestions:
1. Use the Gamble Skill rules in the Revised Core Rulebook ... he rolls once and that covers ALL GAMBLING HE DOES for the ENTIRE SESSION. - He can't complain about not gambling then ...
2. Give out DSPs liberally ... he falls, you take his character sheet (not something I do much but I would in this case) and let the Kel-Dor wipe the floor with him.
3. Talk to him one on one and tell him to write up a character background story before he even thinks about class ... this works AWESOME for my players ... I had a guy who always RP'd powergame type characters, he wrote up a background and found himself playing as wimpy sorceror ... but I think that is his favorite character of all time.
4. If all of the above fails ... boot him! Replace him with brothers, sisters, uncles, friends from work, school, church, homeless guys, nuns, priests, door-to-door salesmen, Ross Perot ... believe me, there are tons of UNTAPPED RPG sources ... there was a thread not too long ago about finding RPGers ... and it had some GREAT ways ... do a search for it if it comes down to this!

Kobayashi_Maru
19 September 2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by VixenofVenus
My suggestions:
1. Use the Gamble Skill rules in the Revised Core Rulebook ... he rolls once and that covers ALL GAMBLING HE DOES for the ENTIRE SESSION. - He can't complain about not gambling then ...
2. Give out DSPs liberally ... he falls, you take his character sheet (not something I do much but I would in this case) and let the Kel-Dor wipe the floor with him.
3. Talk to him one on one and tell him to write up a character background story before he even thinks about class ... this works AWESOME for my players ... I had a guy who always RP'd powergame type characters, he wrote up a background and found himself playing as wimpy sorceror ... but I think that is his favorite character of all time.
4. If all of the above fails ... boot him! Replace him with brothers, sisters, uncles, friends from work, school, church, homeless guys, nuns, priests, door-to-door salesmen, Ross Perot ... believe me, there are tons of UNTAPPED RPG sources ... there was a thread not too long ago about finding RPGers ... and it had some GREAT ways ... do a search for it if it comes down to this!

I totally agree with these solutions!!! If you use the RCR rules for Gambling then you can actually have multiple hours, days or even weeks go by and it stands as an entire session. DSP's, definitly; it sounds like an obsession or a passion which should be forbidden to Jedi.

Plus, once the gambling Ewok goes shoot'n craps; you can have the rest of the party get into an encounter that the Ewok misses because of his obsession. He might not mind at the time but come time to recieve EXP he should notice the difference. After all, dealing with 2-3 Sold. or 4-5 Thugs should be worth more EXP than gambling, especially when you are only getting one role per game session. :D

Kas'ir Faywind
19 September 2002, 05:21 PM
Why does he gamble? if he gambles for the money then it's greed then its some DSP's. Who's money is he gambling???? if this is any time cept for the rebelion he is using the jedi council's money do they want it to be gambled away? otherwise he shouldnt't except money from other people as payment(some where in the power of the jedi).

Or you can let him gamble someone accuses him of using the force to cheat then a brawl breaks out. From that point on he gains a reputation for "cheating" in that planet....then the sector......fianlly he will get the point or he will die being a stuburn fuzzball.

Or if he gambles make him lose go into debt then all sorts of problems happen to him. Bounty Hunters, Hutts who owned the gambling facility, other gamblers. If he loses all his money have some guy flip him one cred and say something to the extent of "Poor fuzzy heres some pity creds" to make him get angry and do something DSP warranted.

Don't try to stop it out of game when you can be more evil/have more fun in game. I had players who are fanatic over grenades and thigns that go "boom" they have already taken down a 1.5 mil cred chip they could have stolen, another players life, and numerous other -9 situations (we have a -9 club as a joke since this happens a lot)