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Reed
20 September 2002, 08:39 AM
I'm new to the forum and also to the whole Star Wars RPG and would just like to start communicating to people who would like to speculate about Episode III. Even though we know generally what's going to happen, what I wanna speculate is exactly HOW its going to happen. Things like:

- How the Clone Troopers will be replaced by Storm Troopers
- Exactly how and possibly who is going to off Mace Windu
- Who's going to off Count Dooku
- How will Emperor Palpatine gain the approval of the Senate to eliminate the Jedi

These are just some of the more obvious things. Feel free to ask each other and myself questions. Just go nuts. I'll be posting comments on some of the things you say and will post stuff on what I think. Hopefully we can get to see many different point of views.

evan hansen
20 September 2002, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Reed
1 - How the Clone Troopers will be replaced by Storm Troopers
2 - Exactly how and possibly who is going to off Mace Windu
3 - Who's going to off Count Dooku
4 - How will Emperor Palpatine gain the approval of the Senate to eliminate the Jedi


1 - Good question. I'm guessing that it's just a new set of troopers gets made and they kind of replace the existing ones.

2 - I would guess Palpy, Dooku, or Anakin, personally. It has to be someone awfully impressive. And the only two people that are/will be evil in the next film that fits the bill would be Palpy, Dooku, or Anakin. In some ways, I would think Anakin killing Windu would be a fitting demonstration of his evil. But at the same time, Palpy needs to pop out into the open and let everyone know he's the man behind the plan.

3 - Anakin. I would guess it's Anakin -- maybe after he's been turned. But I *hope* it's Mace Windu who should at least get to off one big bad Sith before he croaks. :)

4 - Could be a couple things. First, he might not even seek their approval. He might do it behind their backs. He also might have Dooku lead the charge against the Jedi in an effort to make it look like he didn't do it. And it's always possible that he tricks the Senate into thinking that the Jedi are doing more harm than good in the war.

BrianDavion
20 September 2002, 04:28 PM
1) there might just be a uniform change. the ATOC visual dictoary says that the clone trooper armor is a tad hard to wear in some cases. the Kamonians designed it and they wheren't exactly experts in the feild of human ergonomics.

2) I dunno but I can tell who WON'T do it.. Boba Fett. there is some theory that boba will and I hope that the theory IS BS because some 12 year old snot nosed brat offing a jedi master is hard to buy. personally I figure if we even SEE who offs him it'll be anakin.

3) Anakin will kill him in a duel similer to Luke's duel with Vader in the end of ROTJ except Anakin won't be as strong. I am sure GL will do this to give us a comparison.

4) the people will blame the jedi for the war, and DESIRE Palpy to with draw republic support of the jedi. the jedi will be GREATLY weakened from the clone wars. and vader will finish the job

Krad-edis
22 September 2002, 12:21 AM
1 - How the Clone Troopers will be replaced by Storm Troopers?
2 - Exactly how and possibly who is going to off Mace Windu?
3 - Who's going to off Count Dooku?
4 - How will Emperor Palpatine gain the approval of the Senate to eliminate the Jedi?

1) They may very well not be. There purpose may change, but the look may stay very much the same. Over the next twenty years, the armor may develop into something like we see in ANH. Think of what your country's military uniforms and equipment looked like in 1982, and how it looks now. Similarities here and there, but overall, things have changed (especially in the department of making things lighter and more portable). I wouldn't be surprised in seeing Clone Troopers firing on people like Windu, Yoda, and Kenobi by the end of the film.

2) I would be very disappointed if 13 year old Boba Fett decides to carpet bomb Windu with the Slave I . This is possible, but I hope I hope that Windu dies in a lightsaber battle against Vader or a over the deep end Anakin. That would show that Anakin was truly over to the dark side, and was incredibly powerful and skilled. You would have to be both, in my opinion, to do much to Windu.

3)


Anakin will kill him in a duel similer to Luke's duel with Vader in the end of ROTJ except Anakin won't be as strong. I am sure GL will do this to give us a comparison.

I think that this would be an awesome way of tying the cliffhanger movie to the end of the saga. But I still kind of want to see a scene like this:

-Dagohah- Yoda's Unfinished Business

Dooku ignites lightsaber at the arrival of his former master.

Yoda: Dooku! Last chance for you it is. Stand down, or killed you will be.

Dooku: Master Yoda, I cannot stand down from something that is not my agenda. Sidious, he goes to far.

Yoda: Steeped into the dark side you are. Lies you tell.

Dooku: You are as blind as the rest. Let us see who is now the master.

Yoda ignites his lightsaber and steps forth.......

Well, if you have seen Ep VI, then you know that Yoda is very much, still the master. Again, just speculation, but I think it would be cool. :)

4) I don't think a dictator has to ask anyone for anything. Palpatine wants approval, so he gives himself approval. Any senators step out of line or question his authority, then they disappear (ISB, Mercenary Assassins get utilized, or possibly Vader shows up to pee on their parade)......or they (Senators and other influential Nobles) form the Rebellion (Mon Mothma, Bail Organa). Again, Palpatine keeps the Senate around (IMHO) for guidance, not for policy approval. The Senate probably has some good ideas for him to use, but does not tell him what to do.

These are some cool topics. I look forward to seeing whatever happens on the big screen in 2005 (the first star wars movie that I can take my daughter to and have her understand it). It is going to be interesting. Cliffhangers alway are (even though we know what happens) Then the books telling what happened during the twenty year gap (Ep III to Ep IV) will come out. Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, TIEs, oh my!

Reed
23 September 2002, 09:56 AM
I agree with the Clone Troopers being replaced because if the Storm Troopers are only a uniform change then what explains regular humans being used as commanders? Didn't they have clones specifically for commanding troops? I believe that the clones are going to have some kind of genetic defect or fail safe of some kind that eliminates them so they can be replaced by Storm Troopers.

Myself, I think that it will be Vader that takes out Windu. George said himself that Mace Windu's role is once again going to become much more significant from the previous episodes so he'll probably die protecting the Skywalker twins from Vader or something heroic like that. No puny 12 year old bounty hunter wannabe is gonna off one of the most powerful Jedi in the order, not by a long shot.

I would like to see Dooku being taken out by Mace Windu, just to get to see how much ass he can really kick before he dies. After Dooku is offed Sidious/Palpatine is gonna want a new apprentice and finds one in Anakin. But the theory of Yoda killing Dooku on Dagobah to create the dark side cave is feasable as well. I just want Mace Windu "I'm a bad ass mother f***er from another movie" kick some old school Sith butt before he's dead.

What I wanna know is what is gonna happen to Anakin to put him in the big black suit. I'm guessing it will be the outcome of a fight with Obi-Wan and the turning point in becoming Darth Vader. Lots of people believe its from falling into a volcano during a fight with Kenobi, I wanna know how this came to be such a common belief.

evan hansen
23 September 2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Reed
What I wanna know is what is gonna happen to Anakin to put him in the big black suit. I'm guessing it will be the outcome of a fight with Obi-Wan and the turning point in becoming Darth Vader. Lots of people believe its from falling into a volcano during a fight with Kenobi, I wanna know how this came to be such a common belief.

The "volcano" thing deals with a backstory told in the novelization of the original trilogy. All the novelizations of the movies take the script and put a little more into the writing than you actually see in the movies (for better or for worse).

And, yes, I think you're correct in that it's becoming pretty clear that Obi-Wan is going to be forced to lay a whipping to Anakin. :)

Evik_Blastrider
23 September 2002, 10:37 AM
The reason Anakin falling into a volcano became such a persistent rumor is because George Lucas said it! Many years ago he was asked how Vader came to wear the suit. He said that it was a result of a duel between Obi Wan and Vader that took place a little too close to a lave pit.

Added to that is an early draft of RotJ that placed the Emporer/Vader/Luke struggle in a lava filled cave beneath the Imperial Capitol (long before Zahn renamed it). That draft also featured Obi Wan returning to the flesh and Vader dying in the lava and returning to the flesh as Anakin again.

But more recently, Rick McCallum claimed that Lucas's comments were given offhandedly and should not be taken as any kind of cannon. I think from McCallum's comments that Lucas has devised a more interesting battle than his original rough-sketch backstory. I would not expect to see Anakin fall into any lava in Ep III.

Storm Troopers are clones. Storm Troopers have always been clones. The name in the uniform may be different (and indeed very, very new in Ep II), but they are still clones.

Many of us have known that all Storm Troopers (and AT-AT pilots, and TIE pilots, etc) are clones since the original trilogy. It is very sad that Lucasfilm let hacks like Zahn write novels that cast Storm Troopers as other than clones. These authors had obviously not studied the films and only had a passing interest in them.

- "Aren't you a little short for a Storm Trooper?" - Liea. Mark Hamil may be a little on the short side, but not short enough to be excluded from ANY military. This question was predicated on the fact that everyone in the galaxy knows Storm Troopers are clones. Lucas never bothers to tell the audience because he doesn't have to and he wants to save something for the prequels.

- "TK421, why aren't you at your post?" All Storm Troopers are referred to by designations. And yet all the Imperials without full face helmets have names. This is becuase clones don't have or need names.

- You never see a Storm Trooper with his helmet off. The too troopers Luke and Han stole uniforms from were clones and it didn't shock them because they new they would be. The audience never saw the troopers lying on the deck of the falcon with no armor.

- Jango Fett took his helmet off because it was a piece of equipment. He could use it for anonymity or defense or not at all as the situation dictated. By the time Boba Fett is an adult, he doesn't want everyone thinking he is a lost/escaped/renegade Storm Trooper (everyone knows that face), so he never takes the helmet off.

There you have four facts supporting my argument (one more than needed by the rules of debate). You are welcome to disagree, but I would ask that you present competing (non-EU) facts.

Nova Spice
23 September 2002, 05:59 PM
It is very sad that Lucasfilm let hacks like Zahn write novels that cast Storm Troopers as other than clones.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean Zahn wrote the novels a decade before the prequels hit theaters. How was he supposed to know since it had never actually been stated by any canon source at the time that stormtroopers were clones? IMO, I think the EU paints a good point in having stormtroopers as humans (I mean clones take at least five years to grow; that's straight from Episode II). Palpatine would need human troopers in order to maintain control across the galaxy. So, IMO not all stormies are clones, not by a long shot.


I think from McCallum's comments that Lucas has devised a more interesting battle than his original rough-sketch backstory. I would not expect to see Anakin fall into any lava in Ep III.

I agree, I don't think that Lucas will have Anakin falling into a lava pit either. I think something more fitting is in order, and I think ole' George knows that just as well as we do! :D

Any my personal thoughts on the death of Dooku is similar to what others have stated. I believe Yoda will strike down his former apprentice on Dagobah, in the cave. In my mind, this truly links the prequels to the classic trilogy.

Anyway, nice topic and Evik you defended yourself very well with those quotes. Although I still disagree with you! :D :p

Evik_Blastrider
24 September 2002, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by Nova Spice

IMO, I think the EU paints a good point in having stormtroopers as humans (I mean clones take at least five years to grow; that's straight from Episode II). Palpatine would need human troopers in order to maintain control across the galaxy. So, IMO not all stormies are clones, not by a long shot.


While this argument may have merit, it is based on EU information. All of the original trilogy information we have indicates that Storm Troopers in Ep IV, V, and VI are clones.

Also realize that very few systems have any military capability, so you don't need as many Stormies as you might think to rule the galaxy. I think in Ep II the Kaminoans were making a total of 1 million. The force that Yoda brought to kick but on Geonosis was about 100,000 (kinda guessing on what I remembers - any help here would be hot).

The simple fact is that the EU no longer fits with what Lucas is doing. In the case of Storm Troopers, I would argue that it never fit. When I read Zahn's second novel and some of the Troopers were clones and this shocked Luke, I was pretty ticked. Yes, back in 1991 I thought that that was a pretty silly mistake on Zahn's part.

(Please keep debating me, this is fun!)

Scott

Reed
24 September 2002, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Evik
All of the original trilogy information we have indicates that Storm Troopers in Ep IV, V, and VI are clones.

I think this can be considered merely an assumption because if the Storm Troopers were clones wouldn't the commanders be clones as well? You see in AOTC certain Clone Trooper uniforms that are color coded. These colors represent rank. They had clones specifically made to be field leaders and such. If Storm Troopers were clones they would very well still have their officers being clones. Something created to be a tactician is probably much more effective than a regular human trained to be a commander, Clones are generally superior in combat than regular humans. :D Perhaps we'll see the development of Storm Trooper syndrome. The reason why Storm Troopers are called by designation is because there are so many Stormies that their commanders aren't gonna remember their names so they are all set with a designation that's probably written right on their armor (I know that seems a little weak). People also seem to forget that all EU stuff has to be viewed by GL before its put out. Zahn books specifically had to go under many different changes because George didn't want the books to interfere with what he was going to do with the movies.

I agree on the fact that Yoda will probably be take out his old apprentice in the cave on Dagobah but I still think it would be sweet to see Mace Windu off someone in a lightsaber duel before he dies. There sure is gonna be a lot more lightsaber fighting in Episode III from all the others.

I'm glad that George said its gonna be something different than falling into a lava pit that puts Anakin in the suit because I'm hoping to see Obi-Wan school Anakin in the ways of lightsaber combat :D.

Arcome
2 October 2002, 02:56 PM
I think that Boba Fett is going to Desinigrate Mace Windu. That's why in episode 1 Darth Vader said to Boba Fett " No desinigrations." He said that when Darth Vader was using all the bounty hunters to capture Han Solo.

That's just my guess...if it's not what happens, it's what should happen. Someone get back to me on their opoin.---Arcome

All your base base base, all your base, are belong to us.
hehe, got to love crappy translations, geez:p

Nova Spice
2 October 2002, 03:38 PM
I think that Boba Fett is going to Desinigrate Mace Windu. That's why in episode 1 Darth Vader said to Boba Fett " No desinigrations." He said that when Darth Vader was using all the bounty hunters to capture Han Solo.

You know, I never thought about that. You may be exactly right. Unfortunately, you may be dead on target......wow, it all comes together now. Blast it all! I was wanting to see Mace cut down by Vader or something!

It only makes sense:

-Mace kills Jango
-Boba kills Mace (disintegration)
-Vader tells Boba "No Disintegrations"

Heh, I can't believe I didn't see that coming! 8o

Rouge8
2 October 2002, 06:18 PM
No Boba charges into the Senate, and murders the Jedi supporters. Palpy and his freinds just get drunk and laugh.

Not that it will happen:rolleyes:

LoneStranger
3 October 2002, 12:51 AM
Not all Stormtroopers are clones.

Sure, there are divisions of troops that are all clones, but there are also divisions made up completely of non-clones. I would guess they don't mix.

The Empire trains normal human troops in everything that normal troops need to be trained in.

The smart ones become commanders.

The ones who excel at kicking butt on field end up being DNA sources for new batches of clones.

They have to have a source for new commanders and DNA. The best way is to grab them from the Academy. And you don't just ditch them after you've taken the good ones out. You use them as you would use any other group of troops. You use them as propaganda around the galaxy since these ones can actually take off their helmets and be seen by the public without wierding them out. Normal troops and commanders can also recruit back home.

AxiustheDark
3 October 2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Reed
I agree on the fact that Yoda will probably be take out his old apprentice in the cave on Dagobah ...

In answer to that, although Lucas has been known to change things...If you plan on reading the Hand of Thrawn books anytime soon, you might not want to look at this.

In the Hand of Thrawn Duology, by Timothy Zahn (who stays very, very close with "canon" stuff) there is the explanation for the Dark Side Cave on Degobah. (I have taken this expanation straight from the SW Encyclopedia on theforce.net) About fifteen years after the Clone Wars, Car'das was commandeered by one of the Dark Jedi from Bpfassh, who killed all the crew aboard his ship and demanded passage. Car'das survived the Dark Jedi's battle with the Jedi Master Yoda on Dagobah, after receiving treatment from Yoda himself. When his health finally started to fail, and the new life he had been given by Yoda evaporated. Car'das travelled to Dagobah to demand that Yoda put everything right. Yoda simply took his blaster and the beckon call from his ship and flung them into the jungle, then berated Car'das for wasting the gift he had been given. He also told Car'das that he couldn't help him any further, since he was busy preparing for the arrival of Luke Skywalker. Car'das couldn't return to his group, so he fled to Exocron, where Yoda had indicated he might receive help from the Aing-Tii monks.

Corax
3 October 2002, 12:50 PM
Here's my take on the whole argument. All the troops in 2-6 are clones. Now think about this for a second. In Zahn's stories and the EU, the Emperor is dead, right? Well, there are his clones running around, if you go with Dark Horse Comics.But they don't last very long, the Dark Side eats them up in a matter of weeks or months, depending. But, think about this for a second. After the fall of the Republic, race relations throughout the galaxy went to pot. After the Empire falls, there are still entire fleets of Star Destroyers running around, giving people the chance to run around and wreck things. Now, lets take a quick vote, who here honestly thinks that a few die-hard Imperial Admirals are going to be able to afford to take a trip to Kamino and say "Whip me up a few more clones, I wanna go kill some people." NO! They are going to invade a planet and take hostages, train them to use a blaster, throw them in some spare uniforms, and use them as blaster sponges against the New Republic or against whatever the anti-tech invaders are called.

Reed
4 October 2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Arcome
I think that Boba Fett is going to Desinigrate Mace Windu. That's why in episode 1 Darth Vader said to Boba Fett " No desinigrations." He said that when Darth Vader was using all the bounty hunters to capture Han Solo.

I highly doubt that Boba will have the skills to kill Mace Windu. By the opening of Episode III, he'll be what? 14 years old, at the most. If Mace Windu was able to take out Jango so easily, how is a 14 year old kid gonna just off him like that.

Boba will probably do some "desinigrating" but it won't Mace he does it to. Darth Vader has gotta off Mace Windu because it'll be the final fight of the movie probably. When Mace is struck down it will be to symbolize the fall of the Jedi Order. Plus, it will probably demonstrate how far gone Anakin has become.

Not to rain on anyone's parade (all you Boba Fett lovers), but I highly doubt a half trained, 14 year old Bounty Hunter is going to kill the 2nd most powerful Jedi alive. The whole "no desinigrations" line can just be an insight into Boba and Darth Vader's relationship, that's all.

I've also heard all about the story of the dark side cave being formed by a dark Jedi from Bfassh. That story is relevant, but I still think it is very possible that it will be formed from the death of Count Dooku. I still hope Mace Windu kills Dooku cuz I just wanna see him kick ass in a lightsaber fight before he dies.

I have another thing to bake you guys' noodles. How do you think that Palpatine will get the Senate to allow the destruction of the Jedi Knights? I know he'll be a dictator but the Senate still has some pull and he may not want to claim himself Emperor untill the Jedi are out of the picture.
- My prediction is that Palpatine may order a strike that will go against the Jedi code and the Jedi will not participate in the battle. The strike will probably fail because of the Jedi's absence and BOOM! The Senate is made to believe that the Jedi have betrayed them. In comes the Jedi Purge!

Tony J Case, Super Genius
14 October 2002, 09:56 AM
- How the Clone Troopers will be replaced by Storm Troopers

I don't really see a transition from Clone Trooper to Storm Trooper. It'll probably just be a uniform upgrade, a slow integration process into the mainstream shock troops of the Empire. Kind of like the Imperial Guards simply showing up one day - there they were all of a sudden.

- Exactly how and possibly who is going to off Mace Windu

I've heard it said that Sam knows he has to die, but begged George for a glorious death scene. Haden on the other hand begged George to please let him be the one to whack Sam.

So - who knows how things will finally play out, but it looks like at least a couple of actors are lobbying hard.

- Who's going to off Count Dooku

An Anakin/Dooku rematch is what I'd like to see. A bit of dark side pay-back for that lost arm, yaknow.

- How will Emperor Palpatine gain the approval of the Senate to eliminate the Jedi

I see the elimination of the Jedi in several steps:

1) Take a look at the news reports on the www.holonet.com - we're already seeing a increase in qoutes from the general populace - stuff like "Why weren't the Jedi here to prevent this". So, we're beginning to see the Man-on the Street grow cynical about the Jedi and their peace-keeping. That leads us into step 2. . . .

2) They started the clone war. After three or so years of heavy fighting - the period of time between E2 and E3 - the citizens of the Republic are going to get weary of war. Look at what happened in the Civil War: towards the end, most folks didn't care who won and just wanted it over. This will pain the Jedi - the instigators of the war - as the bad guys. (Look at how popular Linicon was during the Civil War - same thing here).

3) The Jedi get confirmation that Palpatine is Sidious - hell, he might even let slip this information himself. If they take action against him (like say a group of hot headed Jedi, annoyed over the council's inability to act when the enemy is there before them, botches an attempt to Palpatine's life) - he announces the Jedi as enemies of the Republic and announces open season on anyone with a lightsaber.

Reed
15 October 2002, 10:41 AM
So far I am impressed by many of your posts but I would like to see some of you introduce some slightly new topics to think about. Anyways, I'll get on with my post.

I still have the firm belief that Storm Troopers are NOT clones, please excuse me if I sound condescending. What many people have to understand and remember is that the Clone Wars are called the clone wars because it is specifically that. A war that featured the use of cloned soldiers. The Clone Wars very well will end when clones are no longer in use. Plus, if you remember in AOTC the clones age twice as fast as normal humans. To me that seems likely to be a large inciting factor in replacing clones with regular people. Many of the clones will become too old too fast and it will probably become too costly for the Republic or Empire by this time to continuously growing a new batch. Another thing is that in the Original Trilogy all the commanders and officers and any other non-masked Imperials are not clones. In AOTC the clones also had commanders and officers that were clones as well. This to me seems good reason to believe that clones will become obsolete because if they were still using clones would they not clone commanders as well? Why not have tons of really exceptional commanders then have just a few good ones along with mediocre ones.

I really enjoy the whole clone trooper/storm trooper debate but still fail to see how the storm troopers are clones.

I also still have to stress that Boba Fett will likely not have as large a roll as Jango did in AOTC in Episode III because the time lapse between the two episodes is only going to be about 2 to 3 years wich means he'll be 15 at the most. A 15 year old Bounty Hunter seems unlikely to me. With all that is supposed to happen with the Republic going Empire, the Clone War's end, Anakin becoming Darth Vader, the destruction of the Jedi, and the birth of the Skywalker Twins, it seems to me that there isn't going to be much room for a 15 year old Bounty Hunter to do much. He may still be in Episode III but I doubt he'll have much combat time. The only thing I can see him doing is flying Slave I, other than that I doubt he'll be donning the jet-pack and helmet unless they have a time lapse during the film, which seems unlikely, seeing that Star Wars movies never have one of those 5 years later sequences.

I'm sorry if I run on for too long.:D

If there were to be a time lapse during the movie, it would probably be at the closing of the film. Just a short 10 minute close that will end the movie at an apocolyptic note. Give an overview of all the main characters. Show Obi-Wan watching a young Luke Skywalker at the Lars farm from a distance. Show a little Leia holding her mother Padme's hand as Padme dies from a broken heart. Probably finally show Darth Vader standing victorious over the bodies of his enemies or bowing to the Emperor, offering up yet another lightsaber from another successful Jedi hunt. Finally show the first Death Star being built. I find something like that would really have a dramatic effect.

Anyways, now that I'm finished with my rant on what I would do, I get on with more speculation. Yes, time for me to waste more of your time with another endless rant.:D

I have a feeling that Episode III is going to show the two sides of Anakin Skywalker. I believe it will be through his own heroism that will end the Clone War because many a time in the Original Trilogy Obi-Wan and Yoda both say that Anakin was a powerful Jedi. We still haven't seen anything to demonstrate how powerful he really is other than the evil part. But Anakin is also supose to be a great hero of his time. I think he may very well kill off Count Dooku in repetition of AOTC's final duel.
-Obi-Wan and Anakin fight Count Dooku
-Obi-Wan wounded
-Obi-Wan about to be killed by Dooku
-Anakin save Obi-Wan and kill Dooku (possibly completely end the Clone War)
Of course these events would have to happen around the middle of the movie, plus I find it may show that Anakin is actually a good friend as Obi-Wan said. Then we would soon see his darker side take over. To make his fall more tragic I think it would be good to show what Anakin could have been. After the Clone War is over the Republic is in ruin. Many factions form up from the fragments of the Republic and the Jedi are unable to keep things together. Palpatine calls for a new order. He proclaims himself Emperor and many agree with his methods while others do not but more agree than oppose. The Jedi break away because of Emperor Palpatine's questionable methods and intentions. In an attempt to keep Alderaan in the Republic (the people of Alderaan highly disagreeing with the new order) Padme (who still hopes that the Republic's ideals will be upheld) is forced into an arranged marriage with Bail Organa. Anakin gets super pissed and reveals that Padme and he were married in secret and she is now pregnant with his child. The Jedi kick Anakin out of the Order because of his disregard for the Code. Anakin begins to slip. Obi-Wan attempts to talk some sense into Anakin, resulting in a lightsaber duel in which Obi-Wan schools Anakin. Obi-Wan horrified at what he has done leaves Anakin thinking him dead. Enter A black masked figure with deep voice and heavy breathing. Emperor proclaims open season on the Jedi. Big black masked man, obviously Darth Vader, leads tons of troops into the Jedi Temple. During the slaughter Obi-Wan and probably Yoda and Mace Windu discover Darth Vader is Anakin. Surviving Jedi flee to Naboo to meet with Padme. Padme and the Jedi decide that the Twins must be hidden from Darth Vader. Darth Vader follows Jedi to Naboo. Yoda and Obi-Wan watch over the birth of the Twins as Mace WIndu goes to fend of Vader. Mace is struck down. Obi-Wan takes the Twins and hides them. Padme goes to Alderaan to live with Bail Organa and her daughter.

That seems like the entire plot of the movie but once I got started I got all caught up and couldn't stop. Besides I think its a pretty plausible and well brought out look at what Episode III could be like.

Warlock-Da
15 October 2002, 06:57 PM
Stormies being clones ? Hmmm mostly an assumption passed on them all being roughly the same height and using callsigns instead of names?

Size: Even US Army has size limits. When I enlisted and my recruiter was going over MOS options, he stated (and laughed :P) that being an MP was out of the question because you have to be at least 6ft, and I'm 5'4" :D

Callsigns: Remember, the Empire was BIG on removing individuality from troops. Commanders needed to remain individuals for a reason, but the troops were nearly brainwashed. Now look at the sheer numbers, as fast as Stormies get vaped ,...add in the speed clones age,...the 5 years to make them,...the cost,... it's just not logical.

Now remember there's numberous accounts of academies. Luke says all of his friends have gone to the academy and he was wanting to go that year. Now somehow I really doubt a dirtbreed dew farmer from the dirtball of the galaxy was going to the Officer Academy :D

I think alot of the reasoning for the clones was simply Paly's little preplanning. He WANTED the war. To have a war you would need BOTH sides to have an Army correct ? It would be pretty useless to sit and plot and wait 5 years for the clones to be made AFTER the seperatists start leaving the Rebpulic or wait for normal troops to be trained. Remember,...he NEEDED to be elected Supreme Chan. and he NEEDED to be give total power (Jar Jar's screw up #526)

Also let's not leave out all the references to Stormies as having personalites. ANH the two Obi sneaks by talking about a new speeder, and even one of the Estenial Guides to characters talks about one trooper on Tat that desides his CO is murdering and just as his CO's getting Solo in his sights shoots him, thus allowing Han to get onto the Falcon and make the flight to Alderan.

Sorry but the arguement for Stormies being clones as way too many references stating they are NOT clones than it does that they are clones.

But then again...everyone must decide for themselves ;)

Krad-edis
15 October 2002, 08:17 PM
Size: Even US Army has size limits. When I enlisted and my recruiter was going over MOS options, he stated (and laughed :P) that being an MP was out of the question because you have to be at least 6ft, and I'm 5'4"

That is strange that the Army works that way. When I was in the Marine Corps, we had plenty of MPs who were all under 6'0", in fact, alot of them were smaller than me. I am only 5'9". We also had women Marines as MPs. Most of them were not any taller than 5'6". I don't think height is much of a factor when someone is packing a 9mm, hand cuffs and pepper spray. I've seen plenty of very large drunk guys get man handled by some pip-squeak shore patrolmen who was not nearly as large as my average height and weight. Determination and being equipped to do the job really counts for a lot.

I think I saw a posting somewhere long ago, where someone said that Stormtroopers are clones and born humans. I tend to agree with that. Growing troops versus going in and conscipting them....you can brainwash both, but the second one is probably cheaper.