PDA

View Full Version : Puzzles for Jedi Training...



NilAdmirari
24 September 2002, 10:00 AM
PLAYERS IN ORONO DO NOT READ

Alright heres a few puzzles I'm setting up for my PC's...hopefully they all make sense and aren't too difficult. I haven't set DC's or anything, just outlined what their solutions are. There are 3 Jedi PC's that will be working together to solve them.

Puzzle 1-
A large bowl set on a pedestal…water that flows from behind a hidden plug in the wall…and a door that chimes three tones when someone attempts to open it. When the bowl is set to each tone that the door chimes, and in sequence, the door will open. Next puzzle.

Puzzle 2-
An empty room, small groove in a block that heroes must find, move object will pull a card out. Upon further examination of the door and its adjoining wall its revealed that part of the wall is just an illusion. There is a computer panel there which, when combined with the card, will open the door. Next puzzle.

Puzzle 3-
Three panels on the ground when stood on that reveal a cylinder that rises from the floor and then which drops a handle from its top when its fully raised. If move object is used to turn the cylinder a door panel with a cover is revealed near the door. One person can move object the cover to hold it open, while another can move object the lever directly behind the panel to open the door. Each move object must be held until all three actions are completed and the door is opened. If any person steps off the floor panels before the door is open everything closes and goes back to their starting positions. When the door is finally opened the cylinder goes back into the floor and the wall panel closes up, hopefully to let the heroes know that its okay to step off their respective floor panels. Next puzzle.

Puzzle 4- and hopefully the hardest (does it make sense?)
Four statuettes sit near a door, 2 on each side, with their arms outstretched, hands cupped before them, and each with removable pieces: eyes, ears, mouth, and heart.
If the room is searched, this is found on the wall...
“One man held his word, another held his breath, one man held no thing, and another held their attention.”
The solution to the puzzle is that one statue holds his mouth, another holds his heart, another holds nothing, and the last one holds the eyes and ears of all the other statues.

So whaddya think...too difficult? Will it be fun? Any suggestions for some more?...would love to throw a few more in.

Jedi_Staailis
24 September 2002, 10:09 AM
The first three seem fairly obvious and straightforward. The last one is nice. I don't know how long it would take for players to figure it out, but I consider it fully logical. It's one of those things that will seem obvious once they've figured it out.

I rarely use puzzles in my games. My group of players isn't a big fan of them, and I've found that even what (to me) seems to be a simplistic puzzle sends the adventure grinding to a halt because the players are baffled. I wouldn't worry too much about these puzzles though. The players are expecting to have to do some problem solving (I'm assuming these are some Jedi task of sorts, they don't really make sense in any other context), and the first three will warm them up for the last one.

NilAdmirari
25 September 2002, 04:35 AM
I rarely use puzzles in my games. My group of players isn't a big fan of them

Well hopefully my group will dig em at least a lil. The puzzles are a part of a jedi trial, I didn't really care if it was canon but just wanted to make something fun to do...actually what I need was a test to gauge their mental abilities as I've already got a Jedi obstacle course heh. My players last semester actually had a good time doing it since they ended up racing against each other to the finish. It made quite a few of them realize, "Hey maybe I should put some stuff into swim, climb, and jump." I mean watching a supposed Jedi stumble up and slip down a wall 3 consecutive times was outright pathetic of course the players luck was in the crapper that day.

I'll be running the puzzles today so I'll let you know how they went tonight...hmm maybe I'll write up some sort of Jedi Trials piece..."Congratulations for making it this far young padawans but hold onto your sabers for this one. Our next event is the Wall of Peril...thats right ascend a 40m rock wall and get to the top, first one there gets 50 points. Oh and did I mention those carnivorous birds near the top? I didn't?! Oh well theres the buzzer, c'mon now up that wall!!"

Ghost In The Holocron
25 September 2002, 08:30 AM
Like Jedi Staalis', my players aren't particularly warm to puzzles during any given session, and the flow of the game often slows to a crawl when I whip one up. I've learned that what's best (at least for my group) are short but sweet one-answer puzzles. This is one thing I did:

Master Piell centers himself and focuses on the Force, reaching out with his mind to lift a rock twice bigger than his diminuitive Lannik frame. He sets the heavy object before his student and says, "It is your turn now, my young padawan. Use clarity of mind and move the rock. A few inches toward me would be nice..."

The rock weighs about 100 kg. The padawan has some skill in Move Object. However...

The answer is, of course, simply to push the rock with your bare hands, spending the least effort for the needed effect -- and thus using your head. Moving the rock with Force doesn't give the student any points and his master simply shakes his head and mutters to himself, "Not ready, not ready..."

I caught all three of my jedi players off guard with that. The fools... ;)

Hope this gives you some ideas.

NilAdmirari
25 September 2002, 09:28 AM
You guys keep mentioning that the pace of the game crawls to a halt with puzzles, hopefully that isn't the case here but fortunately this will be the first session for the campaign and thus a sort of rules testing for the rest of the semester. Testing some new Lightsaber Combat things, running a Jedi Obstacle course of sorts, and just basically introducing the characters and my lovely lil villian I cooked up, ah the joys of being a GM.

As for the rock pushing...haha...maybe I'll end the whole lil puzzle sequence with it. Maybe it'll even assist the pc's in actually solving it since they'll have been "warmed up" by this point. Very sneaky though...I like it.

Master Droid
25 September 2002, 12:14 PM
Here's a puzzle:
The heroes walk into a totally white room. the door shuts behind them, and locks. Now, the room is almost infinitely white, and the light seems to come from everywhere, so it is impossible to see the door. They must find their way out the next door. Answer: Utilize move object in different directions, untill they move the door.

DarthMalaryush
27 September 2002, 08:06 AM
I ran one recently where they had to Move Object on numberous tiles. The tiles weight and the average force useres ability were the main factors.
At the end the characters were nearly out of vitality, and when they opend the door to leave they had to fight a battle droid with almost no use of the force.

I like training that uses no force. There will be times when it is better to use your own skills instead of using the force as a crutch.

NilAdmirari
29 September 2002, 12:48 PM
Alright...I know I'm late with the update but I used the puzzles in the game...the first one actually stumped the pc's for awhile, they generally did everything but what I thought they'd do. They filled the bowl with dirt, tried to make sounds that way, and tons of other things until eventually one of my players used farseeing to look into the past whereby he saw that the ground was wet in a certian part of the room. Discovering a plug they used move object to pull it out and quickly solved the puzzle after that. The next one was pretty easy, the one after that was pretty easy, and the one with the statues was, well just impossible it seemed. Almost none of the players considered that someone who holds his heart holds his breath since he would essentially be dead. They got word, attention, and no thing quite easily but that holds his breath statue was tricky.

Overall I would say that one of the players liked the puzzles, another could tolerate them, and the third player just disliked them almost completely. I would agree that it slows down the game alot, but thankfully I was playing a pretty slow game to begin with (on a side note do not start your first campaign session with a slow moving, no encounter session). I ran a obstacle course, essentially a skill and ability check run, going over balance beams, jumping, climbing, running. I likely made the course too lengthy but the final run (a 100 meter dash where players rolled a die an added their fort and will to the roll to compensate for determination and endurance) All the players were pretty neck and neck with two of my level 1 pcs beating out a level 2 npc I had created. It was pretty exciting that last leg and the players came away with that happy enough I think. Made alot of them consider throwing more skill points into things like jump, swim, climb, and balance. I mean there isn't a much better way to make your PC's want to do that then by having them continually fail simple checks.

BrianDavion
29 September 2002, 12:57 PM
D&D has recently come out with "the book of challanges" that you might be able to adept to SWRPG

Jetic
29 September 2002, 06:41 PM
Great puzzles. All in one session could be taxing on the group, which I see from your summary was about what you experienced.
What I liked from your summary was your obstacle course. Do you have any notes, maps or specs on what you set up that you could share with the group or send to me via e-mail? With a little modification I could use it as continuing training for my group of rebels. :D

NilAdmirari
2 October 2002, 05:38 PM
Setting up an obstacle course is quite simple...think of the things you want to test

Climb
Swim
Jump
Reflex
Fort
Will
Strength
Dexterity
Balance

Most of the checks are pretty straight forward really, but some can be a lil tricky.

Reflex I used dangling ropes that they had to swing across, jump to the rope, reflex to grab it, swing, reflex to grab the next one, swing, jump to land. Walla. I also used it for missed jumps...take the amount they missed by and add that to a Reflex DC 10. If they make it then they grab the edge with their hands, requiring a climb check next round. Allows them a chance to save themselves

Fort and Will I used with a final sprint. I had them roll a d20 plus their Fort and Will mods to see how many meters they ran. Homebrewed rules and very simple but allows for a last ditch all out run.

Strength, push over stone pillars to create bridges to pass gaps is how I used it.

Dex I didn't use...I suppose you could have a swinging pendulum or two that they could pass by with a Dexterity check to avoid it.

Outside of that I had walls to climb, walls to jump and then climb, platforms to jump across, a pool to swim across...make it a length in meters and have their swim check determine how many meters they traverse. And then I had beams to cross. Have fun and just draw something out...took me about 10-15 minutes. Realize however that this is basically a die rolling session that can take like a half hour. If you're players hate rolling dice then maybe its not what you want to do. And be careful with the length because rolling dice gets boring after awhile. The last leg should be like a big sprint I think though. I mean just picture dead tired heroes stumbling their way to the finish in a desperate race to the line.

Jetic
2 October 2002, 07:44 PM
Thanks NilAdmirari,
It is a good start. I'll let you know what I come up with.:)

allstar6767
24 March 2003, 06:04 PM
Hey I really liked your puzzle four but I modified it a little.

“One man held his word, one man held no thing, another held their attention, the last held their trust” So instead of one man holding his own heart, he held everyones hearts... Just a little tidbit

Another puzzle I used:

Puzzle 1: A room empty, save a large block, with and ancient skull key trapped in it. An Inscription reads, ‘

‘Read Before You Act,
Touch Before You Grasp,
Hear Before You Listen,
Leave Before You Enter It,
Use the Keys Before You Use the Key’

I am going to use simple figure out how to release something or other before this one. All the characters have to do is either touch the wall in the part where its is just a hlogram or even an auditory search check(difficult - D6) will allow them to hear the holoprpjector, but chances are they will be focused on the key...

Just some ideas, feel free to respond

StClair
24 March 2003, 09:50 PM
Some great ideas on this thread, especially the ones that encourage the PCs to use their heads instead of immediately reaching for their Force powers. A Jedi must be wise, careful and perceptive, taking the right path and not the quick and easy one.

michaleg
25 March 2003, 09:35 AM
HI,

Just reminds of something from a D&D episode, one PC was walking around with glasses of true seeing, that is, until they walked under an arch that read "The Truth Hurts" whereby their glasses exploded :)

Play on words are great.

Michael

Lucas Carr
29 March 2003, 01:55 PM
I've read some stories about puzzles going way wrong and players not having a clue what they were supposed to do to solve it. It killed the game!

So if you're going to use puzzles, know what your players like and that they do like puzzles. Even a puzzle that you'd think they'd solve easily might not go that way.

Darth Fury
30 March 2003, 04:35 AM
Ya! I know what you mean Carr. I just used a fairly simple puzzle the other nite and my players had to resort to using their R2 unit to solve it.
I'll break it down for everyone.

"Before you stands a 3m by 3m 'wall'. Which upon closer inspection you see is split on each diagonal to make a faint x on what you now realize is a door. On the wall to the right of the door there are seven lines of writing (numbers) in Sith and an eighth line that is made up of twelve dials that have the numbers one, two, and three on each dial. The first seven lines read as follows.

1
11
21
1211
111211
311221
13212211

to open the door you must find the solution to the eighth line."

Now my players are quite clever so I thought that this wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out, but they resorted to their R2 unit to help them. I did garble the transmition from their R2 as they were 150m below ground.
Next post wiil be the "spoiler" so if you want to solve this on your own don't read.

:D ;)

Darth Fury
30 March 2003, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Darth Fury
Ya! I know what you mean Carr. I just used a fairly simple puzzle the other nite and my players had to resort to using their R2 unit to solve it.
I'll break it down for everyone.

"Before you stands a 3m by 3m 'wall'. Which upon closer inspection you see is split on each diagonal to make a faint x on what you now realize is a door. On the wall to the right of the door there are seven lines of writing (numbers) in Sith and an eighth line that is made up of twelve dials that have the numbers one, two, and three on each dial. The first seven lines read as follows.

1
11
21
1211
111211
311221
13212211

to open the door you must find the solution to the eighth line."

Now my players are quite clever so I thought that this wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out, but they resorted to their R2 unit to help them. I did garble the transmition from their R2 as they were 150m below ground.
Next post wiil be the "spoiler" so if you want to solve this on your own don't read.

:D ;)

The solution is
111312112221

Jericho_Narcas
30 March 2003, 06:52 AM
How is that solution derived?

Darth Fury
30 March 2003, 08:37 AM
It's actually very simple no difficult math involved at all, just counting. I'll explain, starting with the second line you simply describe the line preceding it ie;

1
11 = one one
21= two ones
1211= one two, one one
111221=one one,one two, two ones
and so on. So the eighth line describes the seventh line as follows;

one one, one three, one two, one one, two twos, two ones
1 1 1 3 1 2 1 1 2 2 2 1

;) :D

ironwolf56
30 March 2003, 10:35 AM
Wow...this is an old one. When me and my fellow players went through this we were level 1 Jedi (and our lack of Force powers didn't help much), now we're almost level 9 Jedi... Yeah but I still remember sitting around the table arguing for like an hour over what "Held his breath" meant.

Lucas Carr
30 March 2003, 02:56 PM
As far as I can see the list is flawed. If I'm not misstaken it should be:
1
11
21
1211
111221
312211
13112221
1113213211

Darth Fury
30 March 2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Lucas Carr
As far as I can see the list is flawed. If I'm not misstaken it should be:
1
11
21
1211
111221
312211
13112221
1113213211

:o :o :o Opps! Type-o on my original post, sorry guys. In my game notes I have it correctly written, but when I posted I didn't have them handy and was going from memory. Show you how good my memory is !:rolleyes: ;)

ironwolf56
30 March 2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Darth Fury
It's actually very simple no difficult math involved at all, just counting. I'll explain, starting with the second line you simply describe the line preceding it ie;

1
11 = one one
21= two ones
1211= one two, one one
111221=one one,one two, two ones
and so on. So the eighth line describes the seventh line as follows;

one one, one three, one two, one one, two twos, two ones
1 1 1 3 1 2 1 1 2 2 2 1

;) :D

Uhhh...I don't know, I play RPGs as a BREAK from doing homework, I don't wanna be doing these math equations as puzzles. And you said it's pretty easy, but I don't really see how it is.

Lucas Carr
30 March 2003, 06:45 PM
And that's my experience with puzzles in adventures. I've never encountered them myself outside computer games, I've never used them when as a GM, but sometimes the GM devices a puzzle that he thinks his players will solve and then it doesn't turn out that way. Maybe that's why I've subconsciously have stayed away from puzzles or maybe I'm just to stupid...

Jericho_Narcas
30 March 2003, 09:39 PM
I couldn't see the pattern. I even translated the numbers into quaternary trying to see one, until I realized there were no zeroes. I pretty much gave it up at that point and just decided to ask.

Lucas Carr
30 March 2003, 09:54 PM
That is the problem with puzzles. The players can be totally stumped. One thing that might have contributed to you not finding the pattern was that there was no pattern, due to a transcription error. Which just shows us what its like to be human. :bothan:

I like puzzles and think I'm good a solving them, but I couldn't find the solution to this one either.

Darth Fury
30 March 2003, 10:20 PM
I think that's the point of puzzles or riddles (not to frustrate you), to make you think out side of "standard" logic.

This puzzle is misleading (even when it IS typed correctly, which it was for my players) the first thing most people are going to do is to automatically assume that there is some complicatd math involved when its really just a fairly simple pattern.

Besides if it where truly simple or obvious then it wouldn't be very puzzling.

I like having puzzles, riddles, and mazes in rpg's. Both as a player and as gm it breaks up the tidiousnes of hack and slash gaming. Where if it isn't some big creature or bad @$$ villian the th pc's have to make rediculously high saves or ability checks to accomplish their goals.

I guess the best thing to do is have some clues hidden around close by or in another place the pc's have access to finding them.

My players didn't even think to inpsect the dials very closly to see if any were set to a number or if there where any other clues.

But I understand what you are saying. Puzzles, riddles, and mazes aren't for everyone, but they can be fun.

Lucas Carr
30 March 2003, 11:08 PM
Absolutely. I love this type of puzzles when you have to use your mind! And as I said, I've never been in this situation myself, I've only read others experience on the subject.

As always, I suppose that the better the GM knows his players, the better he can cater to what they like and make the puzzles at a suitable level (though that can be difficult as I've stated before).

I agree with you that it's a good thing to break up the combat scenes with other types of activities and if it works it's a great thing. I know they use it in computer games often, but then again I've been stumped by those puzzles too.

And yes, I understood that your group got the correct puzzle, that's why I said 'transcription error' in my previous post. It's a good thing that you share this with us, it will make us more intelligent, or at least we can deceive ourselves... Or something

:raised: