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Armadious
10 October 2002, 02:16 PM
Now as I have not read DW I do not know if this is explained in it (Waiting for the paperback) but seeing as how I have been spoiled (and do not really care) I thought I would ask several questions regarding the book, specifically the SSD that apparently the Imperial Remnant has. Also bear in mind my opinion of official SSDs (and how they are a total waste etc). I will put my own initial comments below each question.

1: Has it been named?

From what I have seen the answer is no, but I figured I would ask.

2: Where did the Remnant get it from? Did they find one adrift? Get it from the Chiss? Steal the Guardian or another like it from the NR? Build it?

During HoTD and the previous NJO books there is no mention of another one even existing so how is it that another SSD popped up.

3: Where did the Remnant get the personnel to man it?

279,144 is a lot of people – more then 7 ISD2s – with only a couple of Outer-Rim sectors – where did they all come from and how were they trained.


4: As a last comment/question, I have always thought better of Pealleon then to jump on the super weapon band wagon, I figured him more likely to build smarter and not larger when he has only a shipyard. I guess this question ties into number 2. I will go on from “where did they get it from” to the question of “Was it worth it?”

My gut reaction to this is not unless it had very little work left to be done. If he built it he would have been far better 7 ISD2’s or 20 VSD (1 or 2) for the same cost.

Nova Spice
10 October 2002, 04:06 PM
1: Has it been named?

No, the SSD was not named.


2: Where did the Remnant get it from? Did they find one adrift? Get it from the Chiss? Steal the Guardian or another like it from the NR? Build it?

My guess is they built it, but I cannot confirm that. Of course this SSD may be left over from the Black Fleet that the Yevetha lost control of in the Black Fleet Crisis novels.


3: Where did the Remnant get the personnel to man it?

The Remnant hasn't exactly been idle and the recruitment from the the Battle of Ithor until Destiny's Way (two and a half years of time) has probably increased manpower pretty well.


4: As a last comment/question, I have always thought better of Pealleon then to jump on the super weapon band wagon, I figured him more likely to build smarter and not larger when he has only a shipyard. I guess this question ties into number 2. I will go on from “where did they get it from” to the question of “Was it worth it?”

Pellaeon is not stupid by any means and I imagine that he wouldn't have constructed an SSD just on the fly. I imagine, after seeing Ithor fall firsthand Pellaeon has beefed up the Remnant military something fierce since then. It wouldn't surprise me if Pellaeon built other ships (ISDII's, ISDIII's, etc.) before constructing the SSD. The Imperial Remnant is looking more and more like the Empire of old, so I think its feasible that the Imps have an SSD.

And as a sidenote, the Guardian is in New Republic hands as it makes a brief appearance in Destiny's Way. I hope that helps in some way Armadious. ;)

Armadious
13 October 2002, 05:05 PM
Thanks Nova,

I saw that there were 1 (or I guess 2) more SSDs flying aroudn and my jaw dropped. That the SWU would still have them around was somewhat amazing to me, after all they had upgraded versoins of it as early as the DE series.

Anyway I guess it is my natural dislike for super weapons (and wastefull ones at that :D ) that made me ask about this. Well and a somewhat strange desire to know what happens in NJO - even if I do not particularly like it. Shrugs. Thanks

Nova Spice
13 October 2002, 06:28 PM
Anyway I guess it is my natural dislike for super weapons (and wastefull ones at that ) that made me ask about this. Well and a somewhat strange desire to know what happens in NJO - even if I do not particularly like it. Shrugs. Thanks

No problem, although I don't really consider SSD's to be super-weapons, rather just really really big ships that pack a punch! :D

Anyway, glad I could help! ;)

Rouge8
14 October 2002, 05:41 PM
If that one isn't left from the Black Fleet Crises, then the Remnant probably has 2 or more SSDs!

Then why don't they use them.:?

Nova Spice
14 October 2002, 06:02 PM
Then why don't they use them.

They haven't been attacked by the Vong yet, so why draw attention to themselves? Its wise to build up one's military forces (like the Remnant is doing) for the inevitable attack on the Remnant. The Imps will use their Star Destroyers, but not before they've had the chance to build up their military might as much as possible. ;)

Rouge8
14 October 2002, 06:07 PM
But how many do they have?
We need to get a list of all SSDs and subtract destructions.

Nova Spice
14 October 2002, 06:17 PM
But how many do they have?

At least one. ;) Like I said we don't how many they have or the New Republic has except for the what is specifically stated in Destiny's Way.

SSD's are very expensive and they're not just floating around the galaxy for someone to run along and pick up! :D You read how Pwoe reacted when Wedge asked for the Lusankya in Rebel Dream. He refused at first because everyone knows how expensive and rare they are; the loss of the Executor nearly bankrupted the Empire after Endor, and I imagine the loss of SSD's for the New Republic would do much the same. ;)

Ardent
14 October 2002, 09:20 PM
SSDs: Executor (destroyed at Endor), Reaper (unknown), Terror (unknown), Guardian (assumed destroyed), Vengeance (unknown), Aggressor (unknown), Iron Fist (destroyed), Lusankya (destroyed, NR), Knight Hammer (destroyed), Intimidator (unknown), Razor Kiss (destroyed)

If anyone else has more information than I can recall... ;)

(and yes, I realize the fact that I know this is kind of scary)

Apocalypse
15 October 2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by Nova Spice

the loss of the Executor nearly bankrupted the Empire after Endor

I don't know about that. The Empire had a lot of resources. I think losing the second death star would have been far more costly. If they can afford to build that thing, an ssd shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Even so, an ssd is quite expensive and takes a while to build. Although a number of smaller ships can probably be more effective, the ssd certainly has some kind of psychological value. Just seeing one of these floating around is probably enough to boost the morale of those fighting with it, and hurt that of those fighting against it. I know whenever i played the "X-Wing Alliance" game, just seeing an imperial ssd was pretty scary :D

Armadious
15 October 2002, 05:22 PM
Ardent:

The Guardian was captured by the New Republic - we assumed it was destroyed by them due to comments in... I think Isard's Revenge, but appernetly it was not and the NR has it somewhere in DW.

I agree Apocalypse on the cost of an SSD*, for an empire with over 25,000 ISDs 1 SSD woudl not be that costly in terms of firepower,but in terms of personel in might seem prety bad, and in terms of the Empires moral it would be even worse.

* Note - that I said SSD - I do not concider the Executor to be a SSD but be a class on its own - SSD = 8km, Executor = 17.6 km.


While I do not always agree with some of the asumptions made in the technical commernteries on theforce.net, it has a nice list of SSDs.

Nova Spice
15 October 2002, 05:26 PM
I don't know about that. The Empire had a lot of resources. I think losing the second death star would have been far more costly. If they can afford to build that thing, an ssd shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Actually this was a statement made on the official site as well as Making of the Magic (or whatever that CD-ROM installment was called :D ); I didn't just make that up. ;) The Executor was not a "standard" SSD as I recall since it was specially built for Lord Vader. I'll get back with you Apocalypse if I can locate where I read that statement.

Rouge8
15 October 2002, 05:58 PM
Hey Armadious, can you post a link to where that is exactly?


I know whenever i played the "X-Wing Alliance" game, just seeing an imperial ssd was pretty scary
Of course there is not noticeing (yes, I was talking to someone at thte time), and pulling up at the lest second. (Only because of all the noises)

Armadious
15 October 2002, 07:49 PM
I don't know about that SSD being scarry - , give me a B-wing with advanced torpedoes and they are not so scary - hit the Shields and then disable 'em.

Admittedly it is a lot easier when there are no fighters to contend with. :D

And a link for Rouge8

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssdlist.html

Ardent
16 October 2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Armadious
[BThe Guardian was captured by the New Republic - we assumed it was destroyed by them due to comments in... I think Isard's Revenge, but appernetly it was not and the NR has it somewhere in DW[/B]

I'm unsure I'd agree with the assessment that the Guardian mentioned in Destiny's Way is the same one under the command of High Admiral Teradoc. The New Republic wouldn't put a ship named Terror or Vengeance into service, after all.

As I recall from Cracken's Most Wanted, the Guardian was more or less floating scrap with life-support for most of the New Republic era. Why would the NR waste precious resources rebuilding a vessel most of the NR Fleet Commanders held in contempt? See where I'm going? ;)

Anyway, the New Republic's Fleet seems a lot deeper than it did during the Black Fleet crisis and even the opening of Vector Prime. They may well have another SSD up their sleeve.

Armadious
16 October 2002, 12:27 PM
Also remember that they kept the Lusankya name, it had to bring up some bad memories for some folks -also I think that the Guardian was probably in better shape then the Lusankya when it was captured, but I beleive that this happened several years later... A different idea is that perhaps it is only newely re-tooled - it was sitting in a scrapyard for years and they finaly decided to repair it 'cause they were hurting for ships?

Something that I read - WJW - said that the EMpires SSD was "probably a new one" or soemthing like that - basicaly he left if for future writers to use, and explain, if i understand him correctly.

Now if I were in charge and wanted to build a new huge craft -I would go for either a Eclipse or a Sovereign SSD - I wonder what happened to the 4 Sovereigns that DESB says were being built?

Ardent
16 October 2002, 06:35 PM
Lusankya is a bit more...pallatable than Terror, as far as I'm concerned. The number of inmates who survived to be freed by Corran Horn were likely only in the low thousands. Most of the survivors were probably military and Intel officers...people trained to deal with the sort of issues the ship's name could bring up.

I think the key would be that Lusankya wouldn't go against the grain with the New Republic's naming conventions, whereas Terror almost certainly would.

Axis Kast
17 October 2002, 03:42 PM
I believe it was quoted somewhere in the Hand of Thrawn Duology or Dark Tide II: Ruin that the Imperial Remnant still controls millions of inhabited worlds; the crew necessary for an SSD isn't necessarily a problem, but the industrial base and resources to produce one.

We get the indication that the Imperial Remnant has very little of either, Bastion having terrestrial regions and thus being nowhere near as large or populous as Kuat and Coruscant. What many people overlook however is that the Empire retains strong facilities at Yaga Minor, Muunilist, and Bastion - these worlds are each orbited by massive shipyards now doubt building at least a half-dozen Star Destroyers at a time. It is concievable that to lead the fleet and provide overwhealming firepower at one location that they'd construct an SSD. We saw just how devestating even one such ship in the hands of a poor crew was at the holdout for Borleias. Naturally twenty Star Destroyers would be more welcome, but given only a minimum of berths and obviously one large enough to build a Super Star Destroyer, the Empire had to choose to keep all yards in operation at once rather than conserve resources for an uncertain future.

Nova Spice
17 October 2002, 04:31 PM
I believe it was quoted somewhere in the Hand of Thrawn Duology or Dark Tide II: Ruin that the Imperial Remnant still controls millions of inhabited worlds; the crew necessary for an SSD isn't necessarily a problem, but the industrial base and resources to produce one.

Hmmm....no I don't believe this was ever stated in either of the books mentioned above. In Specter of the Past it says that the Remnant still retains eight sectors (a few thousand worlds) and that hasn't grown much since then. A few million means they would still hold half the galaxy or so. :D


Empire retains strong facilities at Yaga Minor, Muunilist, and Bastion - these worlds are each orbited by massive shipyards now doubt building at least a half-dozen Star Destroyers at a time.

I'm not entirely positive, but I don't believe Muunilinst and Bastion contain major shipyards (for in Specter of the Past, Pellaeon mentions that they are down to only one major shipyard, which is Yaga Minor). I guess they could have built shipyards at Bastion and Muunilinst since then, but it hasn't been mentioned thus far.

Again this is just from memory and I haven't checked either books yet to verify if I am wrong or right. ;) :D

Ardent
17 October 2002, 06:56 PM
I'd bet the Remnant controls one or two of the mobile shipyards (Black Fleet crisis), which aren't really major production centers, per se, but aren't useless either. Setting one up at Bastion and one up at Muunilist makes sense, since Pellaeon would have to station large fleets at those two places anyway.

Farliner
5 November 2002, 06:50 AM
Just a moment here... where does it says that Lusankya was destroyed? As i recall from Issards Revenge, it was beeing refitted during that time (prior to the Thrawn duology), and ought to be fully operational during NJO period.

As about reasons for Imperial Remnant building SSD - politics and morale. If Remnants inhabitants kow that there is something as huge as SSD out there protecting them, then morale is vay highier, then if there is no such ship. And Palleon(sp?) knows the vallue of morale of inhabitants of his Empire.

Ardent
5 November 2002, 07:48 AM
Farliner, the Lusankya was destroyed in Rebel Stand. This thread contains quite a lot of spoilers, and that's just one of them. I emphasize caution in reading spoiler threads in the future, especially if you're read the series.

Farliner
6 November 2002, 05:40 AM
OK, thx for the info... I haven't gotten to the Rebel Stand yet - only way for me to get the books is to by them online, and it is a kinda slow process, especialy, taking into account where I live...

Anyways, it apears that NR have another SSD operational, right?

Nova Spice
7 November 2002, 09:17 PM
Anyways, it apears that NR have another SSD operational, right?

Hey Farliner, yeah the New Republic has the Guardian (which appears in Destiny's Way), though the loss of the Lusankya created a fairly large gap in the New Republic fleet. But naturally the Imperial Remnant also has possession of an SSD (an unamed one I might add). It will be interesting to see where that little ship came from. ;)

Farliner
8 November 2002, 04:11 AM
Got any background, where did NR got that SSD? I have red most of SW books, but I fail to remember where did such ship appeared? Unless it's the "Pride o Yewhatta"(sp?), but I thought that it wa ridden of by ex-imperials and ended up in Imperial Remnant?

Armadious
8 November 2002, 01:02 PM
Read up a little in the thread - The Guardian (assuming it is the same one) was first mentioned in WEG: Crackins Most Wanted.

Later it was captured in WEG Adventure Journal 15 in a short story called Two for One. Personaly I did not like the story, it closed an interesting, and purposfully open adventure idea.

Basicaly the story is the Guardian was heavily damaged in a fight VS NR, and was slowely being repaired. Two super munchkin characters ended up going in, turning some of the crew against the admiral when a few smalish NR ships show up.

Anyway, now that I think on it, scrapping a ship of that size woudl probably take a long time, perhaps it was sitting in a battered ship lot controled by the NR until the YV showed up?

Kanner Ra'an
8 November 2002, 04:09 PM
By the time of Vector prime it seems the Republic was building bigger ships (Mediator and Viscount) so it seems lodgical that they would have repaired Guardian or any SSD's they might have captured.

Ardent
8 November 2002, 09:08 PM
The NR Fleet direction focus was on smaller, more maneuverable capital ships (MCs, Defender-class Star Destroyer, Liberty-class Carrier, etc). I'm pretty sure whatever large class Star Destroyers they've collected are ones that were already in production when they captured the shipyards. Although I'm also pretty certain if they'd managed to acquire the Guardian they would have repaired it.

The Imperial war machine, remember, was designed foremost to inflict fear on the opposition. The New Republic's war machine almost necessarily has to be more practical and less grandiose.