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smokn_willie
15 October 2002, 06:05 AM
I have a player in the group who wants to play a jedi yet is unable to actually role play as a jedi should. He consta tly straddles the line. Examples of such behavior are on one training exercise he had a level 1 jedi fire a heavy blaster at him and then he reflected the bolt back at the beginning player almost seriously injuring him. His character loves to use affect mind to try to swindle or hustle money. While most off his actions are un jedi like they do not go completely over to merit darkside points. So I began giving him fallen points which will turn him into a fallen jedi when it reaches his wisdom. He does have aa exoic personality trait which is a compulsion to do wrong, however I think he is using this to milk it with. What do you guys and gals think???

VixenofVenus
15 October 2002, 06:29 AM
Hehe, well you say they don't exactly merit darkside points ... I say ... you're the GM, give him a freakin DarkSide point whenever the heck you want.

Player -"I'd like to roll my Jedi Lore to see if I know anything about this."
GM -"Hand me your character sheet and start rolling up a new one."
Player-"Why?!"
GM-"Cause you just gained 20 darkside points and fell to the darkside, thats why!"

Ok ... just kidding.

Your best bet is to run a few games where he can't play a Jedi then ... then have him read pages 30-40 or so in the Power of the Jedi book and tell him you're gonna be really strict on Jedi like the book says ... hopefully then he can understand when he does those things why he'll either a) get kicked out of the Jedi Order or b) fall to the darkside

Otonashi
15 October 2002, 06:36 AM
Your friend may not be worthy of Jedi training. Itís not easy to be a Jedi. Having all those fantastic power really makes you want to use them. However transgressions to the Jedi code do not equate falling to the dark side. Let your player play how he wants to, use other Jedi to keep him on track. If your player is a cheat and a liar, have him disciplined by the counsel or his master. Make his day to day life difficult because he is acquiring a bad reputation. If he cannot or will not fall back in line take his saber away and drum him from the Order. This usually leads a character to the life of a Dark Sider.. This is usually done to spite the order, so their journey down the dark path stars with questionable acts, and then hatred of the Jedi, and ultimately himself. If he does take up the life of a Darksider hunt him with Jedi and other do-gooders. The dark side does offer power, the price is never being able to drop your guard again.

Silent
15 October 2002, 07:32 AM
If nothing he does really deserves a DSP on it's own, maybe you could give him a half of a DSP for the things he is doing. Or, instead of just letting him use the compulsion as an excuse, maybe you could work a game mechanic into it, with a DC 20 will save to avoid doing something wrong when he comes into temptation. If he fails, he does the wrong thing, but doesn't gain a DSP since it was involuntary, but if he suceeds he is able to turn away from the wrong path; if he suceeds but decides to do the wrong thing anyways, give him a DSP. That ought to keep him on the straight and narrow, or make him fully fall to the Dark Side...

Ravager_of_worlds
15 October 2002, 08:03 AM
another thing to suggest is...

a lot of the 'sith' and 'dark side' templates can contain jedi levels- depends on what you think a jedi is. it sounds like the player really wants to play a darksider, not a light side jedi. if a character wants to play that kind of character, sure, but don't feel sorry for him if the group shoots him in the head for being evil. we commonly use darksiders as villians- that's generally the first response to most groups-
example-

player; what? he's got a lightsaber and is hacking off heads?? he must be a sith! let's kill him!
other player; What do you mean? I'm just having fun... don't kill my character!
player; sorry, he's gotta be stopped. roll for initiative!

again, it all depends on the GM. if you have preconcieved ideas about what jedi should be- then use them if he plans to be a light side jedi. dish out those DSPs- when he's fallen, take the character away and use him for a villain.

For myself; I allow all types of characters to come into play- but the characters have to accept the consequences for their characters and their decisions. My players once said, "I am not afraid." They know what I meant when i replied, "You will be. You will be."

scottyboy
15 October 2002, 08:15 AM
I agree with whoever said it... Whenever he does something that you don't agree with, or something that is against the Jedi Code... give him a DSP! You're the GM, you make the decisions. And if he doesn't like it, then you can tell him he's more than welcome to start roleplaying his character correctly or to make a new character. If he keeps doing it, let him. Let him get enough DSP's to fall to the dark side, and then take his character. That's the way that I would play it anyways. Do whatever you feel is necessary... Remember, you're the GM. If he doesn't like the way you do it, then he has plenty of options.

Lord Diggori
15 October 2002, 02:49 PM
I think several things about this dilema:

1. A Jedi that has compulsions to do wrong would never be trained for more than a level. To get rid of this quirk you could design something as a result of his tricks that sobers him up and maybe yields a full DSP or several. It's all a matter a style, but in my sessions a DSP is something I play up as being very serious.

2. Fallen points are a good idea but they maybe to subtle at making your point that he's playing Jedi poorly. The scolding of an NPC Jedi master or some other authority is more direct and keeps things in character.

3. The main problem is one that all GM's have: you risk being a party-pooper by drawing the line at what's too silly. If the rest of your players enjoy the Jedi's antics I'd advise more comedy relief in your stories to take the emphasis off him. This maybe enough to get him to fly right.

If he annoys the other players as much as he does you see items 1 and 2 above.

BrianDavion
15 October 2002, 03:40 PM
if he doesn't play a jedi right have his char get drummed outta the order. that'll learn him. especially if he gains some negitive attention from the jedi later.

P.S.
Using alter mind to cheat someone is useally a DSP.

Codym
15 October 2002, 04:56 PM
An interesting problem. The main fault is however his exotic personality trait. This allows the character to do whatever they want and have a crutch to fall back on when the dung hits the vapirator. And quite frankly, I think turning this guy to the dark side may actually just encourage his behavior. My main rule as a GM: never let someone play a darksider unless they can play a real Jedi. If they cannot pull that off, they are just too bad a player to allow their hands on Darkside cheese.

It seems highly unlikely anyone would allow anyone with these tendacies into the Jedi order, but if he was, as in your game, give him a strict master (preferably a senior player,) who will monitor his progress and correct him on his mistakes. Take away his lightsaber and any other lethal weapons and restrict him to stun weapons until he has "proven himself worthy" (this could give him a character goal to attain - but make sure you and the mentor are in complete agreement if he actually succeeds.) As for the Affect Mind, increase his DC for succeeding so it will backfire more. And, as loathed as I am to say it, and if you have access to it, have him read the Power of the Jedi sourcebook. Its Jedi Code is ... at least right.

Other than that, kill off the character and restrict him from using Force sensitives until he has proven that he can play one. A harsh option, but I just had to kick someone out of my campaign after having his sixth character booted from the party for disruptive and homicidal behavior. If a player doesn't learn, it not worth the cost of the game.

Out of interest, what do the other players think of his behavior?

Silent
15 October 2002, 06:30 PM
Well, you have to remember that in the Rule Book, if you turn into a Dark Side character, the GM gets to keep your character sheet and turn your character into an NPC. So I don't think that people are really suggesting that the player be allowed to be a Dark Sider, I think they mean that he should be allowed to fall if he wants, but then he looses the character and has to roll up anew.

Bombaatu
15 October 2002, 07:12 PM
Silent - I suspect he is playing d20, not d6 (since he mentioned a "level 1 character") - there is no automatic "turn-in-your-character" in d20 for falling to the Dark Side.

smokn_willie
18 October 2002, 12:46 PM
Well thank you all for the good advice. At first I thought I might be a little anal about how I interpretated the jedi code but I see I was right all along. Peace everyone.

PS: Vixen of Venus I hope Inever wind up crossing sabres with you.

Krad-edis
18 October 2002, 11:34 PM
One of the best things about being a GM is being able to bring out bad ass Sith or Dark Jedi and throw them at the players. Do exactly this. The next time this "Fallen Bound Jedi" screws around with Affect Mind or cheats someone, have a Dark Jedi or Sith be watching all of it. This Dark Jedi or Sith is at least level 13 or higher and is seeking a new apprentice. Have this really nasty badass confront the Falling Jedi. He can join the Master Dark Jedi (and learn to do what it seems he has been wishing to do all along), or he can refuse the dark side and the Dark Jedi, and probably be cut down, choked or fried by someone bigger and badder. Either way, you win. You can give the other players and former master the excuse to vape his character (if he turns and becomes a dark apprentice), or you can do it yourself with your Sith or Dark Jedi baddy (if he refuses the dark Jedi or Sith's offer). Perhaps then he will realize what responsibility of power is with his next character.

Just a suggestion, and I don't often like to tell people that are GM's to kill player characters, but I feel with what I am saying kind of gives him the choice of what his fate is, and it seems like he is walking the dark path. People who walk the dark path either get killed by those in the light or killed by those who are darker. It is a dangerous way to go.