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Frobi-Wan Kenobi
21 October 2002, 05:48 PM
The rating history and rating reason options should make people think more before just giving everyone a score of 1.

Thanks guys!

Rouge8
21 October 2002, 06:20 PM
How do you use it?

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
21 October 2002, 06:35 PM
Just rate the person and it should pop up.

Rouge8
21 October 2002, 06:38 PM
OK. It didn't work before when I tried.

Reverend Strone
21 October 2002, 07:10 PM
This is a great accessory to the existing rating system. Awesome work guys.

Through my ever-rose-rimmed spectacles I foresee it will become a fantastically positive resource for providing helpful and encouraging feedback, and help promote good posting behaviour.

Grimace
21 October 2002, 07:23 PM
Yeah, hopefully it works well for everyone. I took ideas that other people had suggested in prior threads and Armage was generous enough to implement them.

Hopefully this system will be even more helpful for people, as it will provide feedback for the votes that people give to others.

Dr_Worm
21 October 2002, 08:12 PM
Great Job! This is some good thinking guys.

Nova Spice
21 October 2002, 08:13 PM
I've been flipping through my own rating history and then looking back at my votes, and what do I notice? The votes switch order! :D :p This is a good idea considering that some folks might reciprocate against another just because they received a low (or lower) vote!

Kudos on such a wonderful idea and a great system. Congrats Armage and thanks Grimace for placing this before the Administrators. An excellent achievement for the boards! :)

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
21 October 2002, 08:22 PM
A quick note to whoever used my real name in their rating reason - you spelled it wrong; but thanks for the 4.5.

Dr_Worm
21 October 2002, 08:28 PM
Woops:p

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
21 October 2002, 08:42 PM
Don't worry, I don't have a single school yearbook that always got it right.

Wedge in Red2
21 October 2002, 11:50 PM
Yeah, this is a great new function added, kudos to Grimace and Armage who I take it from Grimaces post above are the responsible parties. I checked my e-mail before logging on here and was pleasantly surprised to find some words of praise and accompanying rating. Merci Beaucoup :).

I haven't used the function yet...I might have to post back here once I've given it a try, but I think the concept is wonderful.

I'm curious what Nova was saying about "the votes switching order" though. Do you mean the most recent is at the top of the list? Or is there some secret way you can reverse the list and match it up to those who have rated you? Because if it was that simple to work out who had rated you, it will lose it's anonymity in a hurry :raised: .

Probably me just being overly paranoid again... :D.

Cheers,

Jon

JediMasterMaya
22 October 2002, 01:44 AM
Just wanted to say that I find the new rating system very good. It is always interesting to find out what the raters think of us. That was a good idea to implement it really. It's also good that the names are mixed up in the votes area, it keeps it anonymous (but if someone wants to say who they are, they can always write it in the message).

BTW, did the rating history appear until now or is it new too? I remember that you could click on the number of votes to see who voted for you since the beginning (and even that I only recently found out when someone mentionned it in a post), but I do not recall a rating history. I like it too. Now, I'd be interested in finding out why I got two 1s (I had noticed my rating went down some time back, but never actually knew how... Now, I do). Not that it bothers me, mind ya... I'm not aiming to please every single person on the board. I'm just trying to be helpful, nice and considerate... and I... Ok, mostly I just ask plenty of questions. :D

Did this sytem just start today? All I know is that I got a nice surprise in my e-mail when I signed on this morning.

But anyway, I mainly wanted to say good job on the new rating system !

AxiustheDark
22 October 2002, 04:43 AM
Thanks guys, nice add-on to the system. (Grimace, Armage & Moridin)


I'm curious what Nova was saying about "the votes switching order" though. Do you mean the most recent is at the top of the list?
WedgeinRed2, I noticed this yesterday. What Nova meant is that your two options to get feedback do not match up.
Option 1) Clicking on "21 Votes" to see who rated you
Option 2) Clicking on "Rating History"

Becuase Option 1 & 2 are not listed in the same order, you cannot look at your rating history and know exactly who made what comment about your posts. Preventing, for the most part, reprisals for giving someone "how to improve" feedback.

Sorry if that didn't explain it all the way, Wedge. :(

Wedge in Red2
22 October 2002, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by AxiustheDark
Becuase Option 1 & 2 are not listed in the same order, you cannot look at your rating history and know exactly who made what comment about your posts. Preventing, for the most part, reprisals for giving someone "how to improve" feedback.


Ahhhh. Right, I get it. Thanks for clearing that up :). Yeah, as far as I can tell the list of who has rated you is in order of membership number (as in Armage will appear right near the top), while the rating history is in order of when you received that rating. So yeah, you can't match them up :).

By the way, I have since tried out the function and yeah, it's all good!

I'm interested in the development of adding in half votes (being able to give a 4.5, for example). I think it's quite good for those who don't like to rate at extremes (and would therefore not give out 1's or 5's).

Anyway, just a few brief comments. Rock on :D.

Jon

scottyboy
22 October 2002, 05:03 AM
Very excellent idea! And as the others have already stated, it will hopefully promote good posting behavior and it will definitely start to keep people from giving other users low ratings just because they feel like it. Great job guys!

JediMasterMaya
22 October 2002, 05:06 AM
Ok... I just have a quick question? Is the pop up window (or whateer it is that asks you your reasons for voting the way you did) suppose to come on every time? I just gave a rating to someone and it didn't pop up. Then I checked to see if maybe my vote had not gone through and I didn't see it in the voting history of the person. Does it just not appear right away? Or maybe it's not in order of time of vote? Or is it just because I'm using my AOl brwoser and AOL's messed up again (that wouldn't be the 1st time AOl has to be different and not support some feature or another anyway). JUst curious...

Armage Bedar
22 October 2002, 06:50 AM
JediMasterMaya, it should -- AOL uses either IE or NS, IIRC, so there shouldn't be a problem with the Javascript popups. I do recommend using another browser if at all possible, but let me know if it persists in AOL.

I'm glad to see the many responses on the new features! Let me just run down the things which have been added, so you can be familiar with them.
<ul><li><b>Fractional Ratings.</b> Now you can rate someone 4.5, 3.5, 2.5, 1.5, or 0.5, for those times when you just can't decide between integers.
<li><b>Weighted Ratings.</b> This gives members with different ratings the ability to only rate others between certain ranges. For example, a user with a rating of 3.0 could rate people from 1.0 to 5.0, as usual; someone with a 5.0, on the other hand, could rate people from 0.0 to 5.0. And someone with a rating of less than 2.0 would only be able to rate other members 2.5 or higher. This should prevent abuse of the system by low-rated members.
<li><b>You have to be rated a few times before you can rate others.</b> This really only applies to new members and is a way to safeguard against the creation of new accounts simply for rating. Along with this, members no longer start with a rating of 3.0 -- they are simply "Unrated."
<li><b>Rating Reasons.</b> These have been described already, and they are fairly straightforward. If you rate, give a reason. They are viewable to everyone, so not only can people see your overall rating but individual ones as well, so they can make their own judgements as to your posting quality. BTW, you will get an email with an accompanying reason whenever someone rates you. I plan to make this be an option to turn on/off.</ul>

I believe that's it. I've deleted a few bad ratings from a few members, so some of you may notice your ratings increase a bit. If you have any problems or concerns about these new features, let me know (or post them here).

JediMasterMaya
22 October 2002, 09:53 AM
Armage HELP!!! :?

I have just tried to give a rating with my own IE (not AOL), and the java thing didn't pop up still. I don't know what's wrong... As a matter of fact, I gave you a great big 5, because I think that, if it wasn't for you, none of us here would be able to talk and exchange ideas, among other things, the way we do. I've been meaning to do this for a while, but haven't gotten around to yet. I figure now would be a good time. :D

Are the vote numbers in order of the time they were given? Because if they are, then I didn't see my vote at the top (I checked right away, so it should've been right after the last message vote that was there). Are the votes not getting through because I don't get the pop up? I'm just puzzled... Is there something I should change in my browser's settings maybe? I know I can use Javascript stuff, so I don't think that's the problem. Then again, I'm not an expert on the subject, so who knows.

When I clicked on the "go" button to send my vote in, it opened a new window and told me "thanks for rating this user, etc..." but never gave me the reason box to fill out. I'm using IE 5.5, if it helps figuring thing out (but I think 5.5 is pretty standard, most people have that right?). Do you have an idea of what's going on?

Thanks.

Jim Williams
22 October 2002, 10:00 AM
This is great stuff! And now feedback and comments are hassle-free! And it's nice to know what numbers I've received.

Now if I can just figure out how to redress that 2.0 I got. Hmmmm, I must have been grumpy that day.

I also like the .5 system.

Did I mention this was good?

VixenofVenus
22 October 2002, 10:09 AM
JediMasterMaya, if I were you, I would upgrade to IE6 and install Service Pack 1 as well ... that problem occurs in IE5.5 when one of the sys files gets slightly corrupted. We have that probelm here on NNU campus with IE6 as well, but installing IE6 service pack 1 always fixes it.

Jedi_Staailis
22 October 2002, 10:52 AM
Let me just run down the things which have been added, so you can be familiar with them.
Thanks for the info; it looks like even more work and planning went into this update than readily meets the eye. I think these changes will go a long ways toward making the rating system a resource for reinforcing good posting.

This well thought out update is just one more reason why I think these boards are the best on the internet.

[Edit] I'm using Mozilla 1.1, and don't get the comments window when rating someone. It worked when I used IE6 to "update" the rating. It's not a big problem for me, because I can always switch to IE to rate someone. However, it might be worth looking into if anyone uses Mozilla exclusively.

Chris Curtis
22 October 2002, 11:28 AM
Great stuff as always, Armage!

Jedi_Staailis: I'm guessing you have the "anti pop-up ads" feature turned "on", right? I use Mozilla as well, and I experienced the same thing. When I turned that feature off and tried rating someone, the comment box appeared as expected.

I'm pretty sure the issue is because the pop-up window is initiated through a form (the "Go" button) instead of a regular link and thus Mozilla interprets it as an unrequested window and won't let it open.

I've been talking with Armage about possible solutions for the issue.

dgswensen
22 October 2002, 11:49 AM
My rating history is very odd... I have a lot of 5s, and a lot of 1s.... very few ratings anywhere in the middle ground. So people either seem to love me or hate me... hmm.

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have this kind of spread in their ratings? Do people just generally not give mediocre ratings? (I do, but maybe I'm in the minority.)

It kind of reminds me of Amazon reviews... everything is either 5 stars "best ever" or 1 star "worst ever." :)

(Addendum... okay, so it's not a LOT of 1s... but it is a few. Apparently I've ruffled a few feathers in my time.)

VixenofVenus
22 October 2002, 12:36 PM
Here's my breakdown:
1s - 5
2s - 0
3s - 7
3.5s - 1 with a Comment, woo!
4s - 8
5s - 32


So ... I get lots of high ones, a few middle ones, and then those evil people who hate me ... grrr! hehe

I hardly ever give 2s and I notice that not many ppl give em either ... I've been giving out ratings all day when I had a chance, using the new . decimal system, which I love ... btw Armage, if you check your ratings history, yes ... that was me and not someone who said it was me ... I'm such a nasty lil' cuss aren't I!?

OverLord
22 October 2002, 01:37 PM
Actually, I think Armage just came up with this (great!!!) new stuff just so he could enjoy reading all the comments that comes with all his 5's. ;)

But it seams like you already figured this out Vixen :D

JediMasterMaya
22 October 2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by VixenofVenus
JediMasterMaya, if I were you, I would upgrade to IE6 and install Service Pack 1 as well ... that problem occurs in IE5.5 when one of the sys files gets slightly corrupted. We have that probelm here on NNU campus with IE6 as well, but installing IE6 service pack 1 always fixes it.

I thought about doing that, but I have sooooo many bookmarks/favorites that I really didn't feel like having to find them all again... I'm talking a lot of them, that I'd be really upset if I lost and had to spend hours trying to locate! :raised:

I don't suppose there's a service pack for 5.5 is there? Nah... that'd be too easy, wouldn't it? How do files get corrupted anyway? Just wondering...

BTW... You should be ashamed of yourself! Boy! A 0! What do you think he'll do when he finds out?? :D ;)

Jedi_Staailis
22 October 2002, 02:44 PM
Jedi_Staailis: I'm guessing you have the "anti pop-up ads" feature turned "on", right? I use Mozilla as well, and I experienced the same thing. When I turned that feature off and tried rating someone, the comment box appeared as expected.
This is probably a very dumb question, but how do I access such a control? I would have assumed that it would be a JavaScript feature of some sort, but all of the JavaScripts are enabled, including "open unrequested windows." At the same time, Mozilla seems to be blocking pop-ups when I go to a site that I know uses them (as compared with IE). This activity is fairly sporadic, because I still get pop-ups from time to time when browsing with Mozilla.


I thought about doing that, but I have sooooo many bookmarks/favorites that I really didn't feel like having to find them all again...
JediMasterMaya, you should be able to upgrade browers without losing the links. Export your favorites list to a file (under "File->Import/Export..."), then import it into IE6. I don't have IE5.5 on my system currently, so this is off the top of my head, but it should work. Does anyone know if IE5.5 supports this feature?

JediMasterMaya
22 October 2002, 02:49 PM
I don't suppose we can vote for ourselves now any more than we could before, huh? :raised: ..................Just kidding! ................. :D

(YES I did try a long time ago, out of curiosity! and NO I was not going to give myself a 5 anyway! :p )

Reverend Strone
22 October 2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by dgswensen
My rating history is very odd... I have a lot of 5s, and a lot of 1s.... very few ratings anywhere in the middle ground. So people either seem to love me or hate me... hmm.

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have this kind of spread in their ratings? Do people just generally not give mediocre ratings? (I do, but maybe I'm in the minority.)

It kind of reminds me of Amazon reviews... everything is either 5 stars "best ever" or 1 star "worst ever." :)

(Addendum... okay, so it's not a LOT of 1s... but it is a few. Apparently I've ruffled a few feathers in my time.)

Mine's almost identical too. It seems I've made a bunch of friends, but really hacked off a few folks too. Looks like you and I are among those love 'em or hate 'em kinda guys dg:D .

My theory on it is most folks don't feel motivated to vote unless they feel strongly either way, hence the odd inverse bell-curve spread of votes towards the poles.

Jim Williams
22 October 2002, 03:29 PM
I think you hit it right on the nose Reverend. Maybe folks will be encouraged to rate a 3 or 3.5 especially now that we have no rating to start (is that retroactive?).

I'd much rather people rate me and have a 4 and 50+ votes than a 4.something and 20 or so votes.

Not that that is a whine about me not being rated, but I have a lot of respect for those netters with well over 30 votes. If it's a lower rate, they might have torked someone off. But they also might have raised some controversial points and benn victimized for it. And I like to read conflicting posts and off the wall thinking. Usually. Some times.

JediMasterMaya
23 October 2002, 11:02 AM
Ok, this is getting weirder... It is showing a 12th vote on the link to my list of names, but I count only 11 ratings in my list of numbers (ok, my average also went down something like 1/10th or 2/10th of a point)... I do think there is someone new in the names list (oh, BTW, it does keep changing order if you click it on and then off, and then on again! I've tested today! Gimme a new toy and I'm likely to play with it all day! :p ). Anyway, I have not received an E-Mail telling me I got rated again either (or was that turned into an option maybe?). I'm just wondering if it's normal...

I don't get it. I got a ghost rating! :D

Armage Bedar
23 October 2002, 11:49 AM
Fixed -- some people, including you, were having their number of ratings overcounted.

I've also added an extra caveat to being able to get the ability to rate below 1.0. To rate someone with a 0.5, you must have at least a 4.0 user rating *and* 30 votes; to rate with a 0.0, you must have at least a 4.5 and 50 votes.

Obviously it is much harder to qualify now, but that's the point. This will also prevent users from abusing the system with multiple accounts.

JediMasterMaya
23 October 2002, 12:40 PM
Oh good! BTW... I've been testing to see if I really never got the popup and here is what I have noticed:

- It never appears the 1st time I clicked on "go" to rate a certain person.
- So far, it has always appeared the 2nd time I clicked on the same person's rating to try again.

What I did was click on the "go" button, then wait to see if I got the popup and since I didn't, I clicked off the window that was telling me "thank you, etc...". Then I went back to my 1st window and clicked on the "go" button again, and that time, when the window opened, I got the message asking me to please give a reason.

I only did it 4 times, but the same thing happened all 4 times, so I'm taking that as a pattern. Now, I hope I'm not messing up the stats by rating the same people twice in a row. I've just been testing like I said. I don't know if what I'm saying makes much sense, or if it's relevant at all, but I figured the STATS man might be able to make something out of it. :D

It's a good idea to make the lower ratings available only to some people who qualify. Keeps the odds of getting a 0 lower if you ak me! ;)

Armage Bedar
23 October 2002, 02:38 PM
I've altered the code so that the window is created with Javascript, similar to the other two pop-ups for viewing who rated you and rating reasons. Let me know if this fails to work for you, especially those using browsers other than IE6 and Mozilla 1.2.

VixenofVenus
23 October 2002, 03:21 PM
Does it for me still too ... first time I rate them, it just rates them, the second time, the box goes to the rating description box.

Jan Tolbara
23 October 2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Armage Bedar
Fixed -- some people, including you, were having their number of ratings overcounted.

I've also added an extra caveat to being able to get the ability to rate below 1.0. To rate someone with a 0.5, you must have at least a 4.0 user rating *and* 30 votes; to rate with a 0.0, you must have at least a 4.5 and 50 votes.

Obviously it is much harder to qualify now, but that's the point. This will also prevent users from abusing the system with multiple accounts.

I noticed a bit of a discrepancy on the fix. I've found that I can vote as low as a 1.0 on some people, a 0.5 on others and a 0.0 on still others. If you look at my ratings, I shouldn't be able to do that.

It appears that the low ratings can be done ON users that meet the qualifications, not BY users that meet the requirements.

JediMasterMaya
23 October 2002, 09:58 PM
I don't know about everybody else, but I am happy to report that everything is working well on my side now. Pop up window pops up when it's supposed to (so far anyway). B) Browsers can be so fussy sometimes!

Although, I don't know if fixing the problem was such a good idea... now my hands are itching to rate everbody! :raised:

Thanks Armage! :)

Sabre
23 October 2002, 10:04 PM
The new ratings system is definitely an improvement over the old in many ways. I particularly like the ability to review your ratings, and to leave comments along with ratings. However, there are still some who would rather not be rated at all. The problem I have is that I received an email message after being rated. I checked the options menu, and the closest thing I can find to refusing such email messages is to turn off allowing admins to send you messages. I think that there might be more important messages that admins could have to send that are unrelated to rating. If it would be possible, it might be nice if there were a way to separate the two kinds of messages so that you don't have to get email messages about your rating but also don't have to stop all messages from the administration.
Thank you for your efforts thus far.

Armage Bedar
24 October 2002, 05:12 AM
Thanks, Jan -- had an incorrect value in the code. Should be fixed now.

Sabre, being able to turn off emails is definitely something I want to implement. For a few days, I want to leave them on just to make sure there are no further bugs with them. I'll get everyone set up with an option to turn them off by this weekend.

Thanks for your patience, everyone! I've already found and fixed several bugs, and I hope the system will be bug free within the next few days.

D. Lobkowicz
27 October 2002, 06:05 AM
--You have to be rated a few times before you can rate others.--

Ah, that explains it - I was sitting here reading this thread and looking around seeing where you're supposed to rate people... make sense!

:p


-D. Lobkowicz