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Thread: Darkside? You decide.

  1. #1
    Dark Master of the Game
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    Question Darkside? You decide.

    In my last session of SW, something unexpected occured.

    Situation:

    1.Party investigates this landing beacon of a suspicious company on a backwater world.
    2.Party hasnt been able to contact the company's base on planet.
    3.Sensing equipment tampering, 6 company security guards and 2 techs approach the beacon.
    4.Party hides in jungle foliage and divides for flanking manuever.
    5.PC team 1 fumbles hide and attracts 3 guards.
    6.Guards open fire in hopes of scaring off native predators.
    7.PC team 1 attacks guards. 1guard killed, 2 surrender
    8. PC team 2, still hidden well, notices other 3 guards and techs withdrawing during team 1's fight.
    8.5. My Soldier player tells me he gonna get those last 3 guards and declares using a Force point. His girlfriend, another player, warns him of Darkside. He's like "Yeah." Devious grin.

    9. Level 9 Soldier PC, non-Force Sensitive with 2 DSPs already, spends a Force point to attack the fleeing 3 guards with their techs. He uses autofire and Heroic surge, with the high rolled Force point bonus succeeds in killing the 3 guards fleeing flat-footed within one round.

    My reaction as GM: Gave the soldier one DSP per guard.

    What do y'all think?
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  2. #2
    New Republic Intelligence Special Agent
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    I think you overreacted. First off 1 DSP at the most (this guys non-Force Sensitive, I mean he needs to do a lot to get one). And second, I don't know any GM that would've given a DSP even to a Jedi. This is WAR obviously; it's not like he's shooting up kids or nothing. I mean, Jedi obviously have no problem killing people in a war; would you give Luke DSPs for calling on the Force to destroy the Death Star, I know I wouldn't. In a related note, who spends a FP for something as minor as this? I mean the group I'm in treats them like gold; I only spent 2 total last campaign (a 7 month campaign no less).
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  3. #3
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    Post No DSP

    I agree with ironwolf56, no DSP for the soldiers actions.
    I don't think that was a dark enough action to grant DSP, and if I had I wouldn't have given more than 1.
    I'll never give more than 1 DSP to non-Force sensitive characters no matter what they do.
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  4. #4
    Captain of the Star Destroyer "Vengeance"
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    My reaction is a bit different...

    Give the soldier 1 or 2 DSPs; 1 for the force point being used in the purpose of evil and the evil act itself. It also sounds like the player has an overabundance of force points if he's going to waste them on 3 lowly guards.

    but Ironwolf the only reason it is 'harder' for a non-force sensitive person to get a dark side point is because they can't do dark side abilities. any situation that a jedi would get a DSP for their action is guarenteed to give one to a non-force sensitive in my book. It doesn't matter if you are force sensitive or not, if the action warrants a DSP, then it does. Again, only my opinion. None of my players who play Normals get off the hook with DSPs- in fact, it figures into how trustworthy they may look. I often have animals and children take an instant dislike to any character with DSPs.

    your player sounds like he deserves it- he did it just becuase he could. that, is something that often kills the character in the long run. Also, it may foment distrust for his character among the others characters.
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  5. #5
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    As always, these matters are open to extreme amounts of interpretation and debate.

    I'm in the "No DSP" camp, and here is why:

    The person isn't, from what you've said here, a Force user. In my mind, it's never been adequately explained why a non-Force user should get DSPs. The Dark Side can't control them in the way it can control a Force user. At most, the emotions and actions one associates with the Dark Side can seem like a better option -- a form of the Dark Side, I suppose. But we're not talking mystical coercion here.

    DSPs are fine to give to Jedi -- and probably even in that situation (Though only one total for the whole thing as I see it as one big malicious action. I see DSPs as being for the lapse in judgement or thinking that leads to the death -- not for each death itself), but I don't think I've ever given one out to a non-Force sensitive player. It just doesn't make sense to me, personally.

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  6. #6
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    1 DSP for using a Force point to inflict needless death.

    I personally feel, if life can be equated in terms of a game we play at all, that lots of soldiers come home from war with some "DSPs". No moral judgment here, but war sucks and leaves lasting scars. Mostly depends on the particular individual and what they might have done.

    In real life, I imagine this character would have unresolved feelings about this for a long time. We players just get to roll dice and lay waste (all for good fun and storytelling!!!)

    Too lazy to get my rulebook...but where does it say non-FS are exempt from the toll of the dark side? Besides the physical problems, I would definitely demand a roleplaying change of personality as the character's moral outlook changes. IMO. The way I see it, concentration camp commanders had lots of DSPs.
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  7. #7
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    I'm in a mixed camp. I don't think that (based on what I read, which probably didn't have every little nuance that the game session itself had concerning the actions) the soldier should get a DSP, BUT I don't think that the soldier should get back the Force Point, as it was used rather callously for something that wouldn't warrant reallocation of the Force Point.

    I've always viewed the Force Points as a "you use it for something really good, you get another. You use it for something common or for your own personal protection, you simply get it reallocated. You use it wastefully or for something that's not quite on the up-and-up, you don't get it back." That way, rather than giving out a DSP for something that's really kind of borderline, I simply don't give them the Force Point back (assuming they used one, and that's the case this time.)

    I wouldn't have given him 1 DSP for each guard killed, even in the situation described. 1 total would have been fine in my book.

    All told, though, you need to remain consistant in your own game. If you dish out DSPs like you have, stick to it later in the game. If you decide that what you did was a little too harsh, and you tone it down, stay consistant later on when something similar occurs. Consistancy is key to being a GM.
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  8. #8
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    I'm gonna have to agree with giving him a DSP, especially if their backs were turned. Basically it comes down to killing someone who is unable to defend themselves. Though if they didn't die in the first round I don't think I would have given him one... cause they got the chance to defend themselves... I don't know its a tough call but I'm gonna stick with my original statement. I make the non-Force user in my party keep track of his DSPs in case he decides to become force sensitive.

  9. #9
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    If he guns down FLEEING troops and using the force at the same time. Then I would give him only one DSP. If he did not need to kill the troops, then that's evil. Self-defense good. Now if they are Rebels that were fighting a war then no don't give him the DSP cuz it is war. But these are just guards and the party doesn't really know what they are up to. I really could go any way, with leaning towards a DSP. Too you could go with what Grimace said, that would be a good way of balancing it out. Since he has got already 2 DSP, you might want to tell him to start toning down.
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by evan hansen
    The person isn't, from what you've said here, a Force user. In my mind, it's never been adequately explained why a non-Force user should get DSPs. The Dark Side can't control them in the way it can control a Force user. At most, the emotions and actions one associates with the Dark Side can seem like a better option -- a form of the Dark Side, I suppose. But we're not talking mystical coercion here.
    Evan, I agree that the Soldier doesn't deserve a DSP because those guards are still, technically, a threat to the group.

    However, insofar as why non Force-Sensitives should get DSPs: what happens when a non Force-Sensitive "becomes" Force-Sensitive? Do you arbitrarily assign X number of DSPs? Because the character doesn't have a clean slate if he's done evil in the past, even if he's just now opening himself to the effects of his evil.

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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by evan hansen The person isn't, from what you've said here, a Force user. In my mind, it's never been adequately explained why a non-Force user should get DSPs. The Dark Side can't control them in the way it can control a Force user. At most, the emotions and actions one associates with the Dark Side can seem like a better option -- a form of the Dark Side, I suppose. But we're not talking mystical coercion here.
    I see DSP as tracking how evil someone is. The balance between DSP and FP allows me to see how evil a dude is. That is way when someone performs a real evil act, they get a DSP to sort of 'remeber' it.
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  12. #12
    Nerf Warrior Extraordinaire
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    It doesn't matter if you are force sensitive or not, if the action warrants a DSP, then it does.
    I disagree. Dark Side Points, in my opinion, are a manifestation of the draw of the Dark Side on a character. Non-Force sensitive characters are necessarily less vulnerable to the Dark Side. (Note that this also means that I don't agree with other interpretations of DSPs, such as mental trauma or evil reputation. DSPs can certainly be used, and used effectively, for such things, but in my game, they only represent the dark side.)

    Does this mean the morals that apply to Jedi don't apply to non-Force Sensitives? In short, yes. Non-Force sensitive characters can have much looser ethics and stay on the light side. That doesn't mean that they won't be pursued by the law or gain a reputation for being ruthless, but it does mean that in questionable situations, they're likely to get off scot-free in the DSP department. This tends to throw Jedi into sharp relief against other characters, as well as limit said Jedi, but I like this effect.

    Furthermore, the guards, if allowed to escape, could have posed a threat to the team by reporting back, or by regrouping. Admittedly, using a force point to kill the guards was a bit excessive, and there were non-violent solutions available. If it was a Jedi, I would give 1 DSP, but a soldier doesn't deserve it, in my opinion.

  13. #13

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    Okay. If I were GM, DSP for the soldier. Shot fleeing people in the back. If I read the situation correctly, he had the drop on them, and could've told them to surrender or else. He could also have shot using stun bolts, depending on the type of weapon. Option number three, letting them get away, while more risky, would've prevented bloodshed and use of other resources. He knew the consequences, and so would get a DSP. Force-sensitive has nothing to do with it.
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  14. #14

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    I agree with 1 DSP. 3 is a little much; I'm not sure I'd award even a FS character with that many, unless he Gripped each one or some such.

    Though unless he intends to become FS later on, or you have house rules about DSPs, you can pretty much award as many as you wish.

    *wishes DSPs were a little more universal in what they affect...*

  15. #15
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    I agree one DSP

    It seems like the Soldier was shooting non-threats. If he had not used a Force Point I would have just given him a warning but allowed it, but since he did use a FP...DSP. Not that a DSP is the end of the world...I think that some characters need one or two to reflect their alternate morality.
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