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Thread: Impossible Inconsistencies

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    Default Impossible Inconsistencies

    Okay, this thread is dedicated to the identification, explanation and speculation on and of physical and logical inconsistencies to be found in the Star Wars Universe.


    Impossible Inconsistency #1:
    RotJ: Battle of Endor: The Executor's Destruction


    Events leading to the Executor's Destruction:
    1. A-Wing attack destroys bridge shield generator
    2. Out-of-control A-Wing rams into the bridge
    3. Out-of-control Executor collides with Death Star

    Inconsistnecies
    1. A Super Star Destroyer (or any Star Destroyer for that matter) would never have such an obvious weakness as an external shield generator.
    2. Need I mention the chances of an out-of-control starfighter smashing right into the Executor's bridge
    3. This is the worst part. The Executor had not maneuvered to engage the Rebel forces at any time during the battle. Yet in the movie we see the A-Wing smash into the bridge and then the Executor collide with the Death Star. Considering that the Executor was not moving at all when the bridge was lost, how did it suddenly get right next to the Death Star? The Death Star II did not generate that much gravity due to its size, and the bridgeless Executor was not moving when it was hit. So how did it collide with the Death Star?

    I must point out that by the time the required for the Executor to "drift" right into the Death Star II is more than enough time for the backup bridge to steer the ship away from such a catastrophe. On Star Destroyers, when the Bridge is completely destroyed, the backup bridge is used. And the possibility of the backup bridge actually piloting the Executor directly into the Death Star is not a possibility. It couldn't happen. At the backup bridge they have everything that is necessary to control the ship, and that includes sensors and communications.

    Conclusion: The Executor couldn't have been destroyed by colliding with the Death Star II.


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    Originally posted by LL|Jerk
    I must point out that by the time the required for the Executor to "drift" right into the Death Star II is more than enough time for the backup bridge to steer the ship away from such a catastrophe. On Star Destroyers, when the Bridge is completely destroyed, the backup bridge is used. And the possibility of the backup bridge actually piloting the Executor directly into the Death Star is not a possibility. It couldn't happen. At the backup bridge they have everything that is necessary to control the ship, and that includes sensors and communications
    The real question is, did the Executor have a backup bridge, and if they didn't, why not?

    IMHO I think it did or should have. For a SSD not to have a "secondary bridge" is either outstanding overconfidence or just clear stupidity(Sadly, common traits of my beloved Imperials)

    Even though I never heard of a ISD or SSD having a backup bridge, it actually wouldn't be such a bad idea. Having just one bridge/command area would be like putting all your eggs in one basket. If the enemy takes out the bridge, the ship would be done for.

    As for the A-wing actually crashing into the bridge of the SSD, I believe the chances of that happening are nearly incalculable, having about the same odds of happening as the same A-wing spinning out of control and hitting the Emperor's Tower, killing Darth Vader, the Emperor and Luke Skywalker (which would could be the start of a very interesting Infinites' campaign)

    What do all you people think? I await your ideas and thoughts.

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    yes, actually in addition to working on these Inconsistencies I have been working on some ideas for different Infinities campaigns...
    Last edited by LL|Jerk; 19 February 2003 at 09:49 PM.

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    Before i start, let me make it clear that i am playing the devils advocate, basically, pulling plausible excuses for this stuff out of my @$$, but they are excuses nontheless, so here we go...

    As far as external shield generators go, even the regular ISDs and older VSDs had them, yes i say its kind of a no-brainer too but maybe they get better shield coverage if theyre held out away from the superstructure or something idunno, just i noticed that basically ALL the other imp capital ships have em too

    The chances of such a collision may not be so remote as one would think, if the Rebels had managed to knock out that vital section of shield (definitely hinted at by the scene preceding the A-wing crash maneuver, lol, oh nevermind) they would have certainly gotten a reading on the lack of a shield in that area. Furthermore, knowing that, the pilot of the A-Wing, cant think of the guys name right now, knowing that he was hit and going down, probably (sensibly) figured that he might as well capitalize on the opportunity and make his crash count, so, with the last bit of control he had over his doomed little fighter, he pointed it at the bridge and hit the gas.

    Last, i believe this is a question of physics, keep in mind that the death star is MASSIVE, i mean REALLY MASSIVE, apparently massive enough to have the gravity to draw in the Executor. This isn't really such a stretch, though, considering that no ship at the time, no matter how large, didnt even begin to compare with the DS, so with its engine controls (in the bridge) destroyed by a wayward A-Wing, the SSDs pointy bulk is drawn in by the DS's gravity. Good for the Rebels, bad for the SSD. As for "how did it get right next to the death star?" I dont know what to tell ya, thats just one of those convenient things you can do when youre making the movie, i must admit that was a weak point in my case but, gee, George didnt leave me much to build it on, did he?

    As far as a back up bridge, i dont know. Maybe there simply wasnt one, maybe they lost control too b/c the ship wasnt designed to be so close to a gravity well, maybe alot of things, but i think the main idea here is that the folks on that ship were having BIG problems, problems they weren't trained to handle, obviously. Thus, the crash.

    Once again, i agree that its quite incredible, these are just a few things to consider
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    I believe the external shield generators have been explained in various sources which refers to the massive energy output that could cause various electrical and biological problems if they were internal to the starship, therefore they are placed externally.
    Back-up bridges are mainly the realm of Star Trek so that they can split up the ship for key story sequences which require it to split. Back-up systems in general are very rare in Star Wars, usually being relegated to back-up shields on Mon-Cal ships, and back-up Hyperdrives.
    As for the SSD being close to the Death Star, I always assumed that there was a quiet interlude as it drifted closer and closer to the gravity well that is the Death Star and eventually hit, but we're only treated to the impact on-screen.
    And just remember, all this improbabilities most likely spawn from the desperation of the Rebels and the spending of lots of Force Points to try and turn the tide.
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    Moderator: Roleplaying Forum coldskier0320's Avatar
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    OK then, MassassiC, then why do other ships seem to manage internal deflector shields? I mean, not to sound harsh but dont the Rebel ships mount theirs on the inside? Again, im not arguing, just curious rd: btw, who is this? its my PC almost to a tee!

    Hey, 200th post! (i think)
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    Aargh! it didnt seem to work out, neone else having this prob? Who do we go to with this dissappointing development? oh well...
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  8. #8
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    I'd recommend you go and read the star wars technical commentaries' section on the Battle of Endor, even if you don't agree with everything that's said.

    The first thing to note is Ackbar's order to concentrate all fire on the Executor. We can safely assume that the force available for this did not solely consist of a few A-Wings and that there were a significant number of rebel ships already firing on the executor. As I think I've pointed out elsewhere, the fact that Ackbar thought there was any point attacking the SSD suggests it had already taken some damage.

    The shield generators are a contentious issue. The tech commentaries maintains that the globes are sensor domes, and that the loss of the deflector shield is merely a flashback from their destruction. I'm sure most SW capital ships do have backup bridges, but it could easily be that the destruction of the executor's main bridge caused enough disruption and damage to systems that it was not possible to get the ship back under control before it hit the DS. The real question is why do they not have a more protected bridge (I believe most modern warships have a "command bridge" inside the hull that is used during combat) - if you look at Nebulon-Bs and some mon cals, they also have very exposed bridges. I think this is just a quirk of SW design, one of the many "not strictly logical, but cool" things in the films - if you don't accept the tech commentaries' explanation of sensor domes, I'd put star destroyer shield generators in the same category.

    I don't think the chances of a collision are all that unlikely, considering that the rebel fighters were presumably concentrating on the executor's now unshielded bridge section.

    As to why the executor was suddenly near the Death Star, I'm not sure. It's possible the battle drifted that way, I'd have to watch the film again to see what it's like. In the novelisation, the battle does take place pretty close to the DS, as rebel ships are bombarding it.
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    Angry Freak accident.

    Maybe Admiral Piett, in his mad dash to avoid the hurtling A-wing, fell on the thruster controls right before being smashed, blown to bits, and sucked into the void of space.
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    I wish that you guys could know how worn out my brain is from thinking of all the inconsistencies to be found in the Star Wars movies...

    Maybe the easiest way to solve the whole dilemma is for the community to create a "more likely" version of what would have happened...

    And as this thread's author, I officially recommit the course of this thread to discussing "more likely" versions of what might have happened in the movies...

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    The problem with discussing Infinities possibilities at this point, though, is the fact that Episode 3 has not been released yet, therefore we cannot depict reliable versions of what "may have happened", because we don't know what will happen in Episode 3.

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    Angry How?

    The Executor shouldn't have been destroyed at all! For anyone who has read Michael Stackpole's X-wing series they will understand:

    In the Bacta War (Book 4), Rogue Squadron and a massive conglomeration of ships (I think it was somewhere around 300) BOMBARDED the Lusankya with Proton Torpedoes! And the Lusankya was still operational after that (it is used in the NJO series)

    Also from the NJO series we understand that SSDs did in fact have a backup bridge. For those of you have read Rebel Stand you will remember the Lusankya's spear ramming and killing Czulkang Lah's Worldship. Where did Eldo Davip control this from? It was the backup bridge! Aaron says that exact thing in his book!

    As for Arvel Crynyd destroying the bridge, I think it is safe to assume that he was not so much out of control (he still was a little ) as on a mission to be a legend, and yet his name is hardly known, much less legendary!
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    Impossible Inconsistency #2:
    RotJ: Battle of Endor: The Ground Battle


    Events in the Battle of Endor Ground Battle:
    1. Rebels team up with Ewoks
    2. Rebels break into shield generator bunker
    3. Rebels are caught and taken outside
    4. Ewok ambush
    5. Shield generator bunker is left totally unguarded
    6. Chewbacca commandeers an AT-ST
    7. Shield Generator is destroyed

    Inconsistnecies
    1. R2-D2's ability to hack practically any Imperial code
    2. Ewok affect on the Battle is overestimated
    3. No security cameras outside the back door of the shield generator bunker
    4. Stormtroopers didn't put the rebels in prison the first time they caught them
    4. Stormtroopers never radio for backup
    5. Stormtroopers don't defend the shield generator whatsoever

    R2-D2: The Ultimate Hacker

    Throughout the Trilogies, we have all seen R2-D2's amazing skills as a computer and security system hacker. A standard R2 unit being the greatest hacker of all time is not very plausible. If that is how good R2-D2 is at hacking security systems, think what REAL slicers could do! The Empire would be on it's knees!

    Those "horribly dangerous" Ewoks

    Another inconsistency to be found in the ground battle is the affect that the Ewoks had on the battle. They were included in the Trilogy for Comic Relief, not to open a can of whoop butt on the best stormtroopers in the Empire. In the "Battle of Endor" thread there seems to be a solid core of Holonet members who seem to think that Ewoks are to be revered and feared by all Imperials for their superior battle skillz. I just don't think that that is the case here.

    [The absense of] Imperial Security Cameras and Guards

    The plausibility of security cameras being absent at the "back door" of the Imperial complex may also be a worthwhile point. If there had been a better security system in the bunker, it is quite doubtful that the Rebels would have been able to break into the complex at all. It just doesn't make sense that you build a shield generator to protect your superweapon, but you can't even spare 1 security camera to watch the back entrance of the shield generator.

    And the absense of guards in the interior of the shield generator bunker is also not plausible, for obvious reasons.

    The Capture of the Rebels

    After the Rebels were caught trying to sabotage the shield generator, why were they not handcuffed? And after the Ewok ambush, how did all the Rebels get their weapons back?

    Imperial Communications During the Battle

    The entire Rebel victory in the Ground Battle requires several unlikely events to occur. You have to assume that the Imperials panicked so much that not one stormtrooper radioed in to tell headquarters that they were being ambushed by Ewoks. The likelihood of the Imperials not calling for any reinforcements during the battle is impossible.

    Imperial Strategy During the Ground Battle

    Another major inconsistency in the ground battle is the fact that NONE of the stormtroopers had decided that defending the bunker was important anymore. That was the whole reason the legion was stationed on the Sancturary Moon, to defend that bunker.

    I guess that stormtroopers never heard of following orders.


    Conclusion: There was no possible and plausible way for the Empire to lose the Battle of Endor.


  14. #14

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    While you're on the subject of realism, why not harp on lightsabers, the Force, and why we never see restroom labels on Hoth?

    I seem to recall the opening line of the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 theme: "If you wonder how they eat and breathe and other science facts, repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.'"
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    Originally posted by Sabre
    While you're on the subject of realism, why not harp on lightsabers, the Force, and why we never see restroom labels on Hoth?

    I seem to recall the opening line of the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 theme: "If you wonder how they eat and breathe and other science facts, repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.'"
    Not realism. Logical and physical inconsistencies in the movies. That's what this thread is about. By the way, since you seem to have changed the subject, do you have an answer for the Executor paradox detailed above?

    Obviously Star Wars is "not just a show". I will repeat that a multi billion-dollar storyline should make sense.

    If you feel like taking a shot at me, from now on please take it in the "Battle of Endor" thread...alot of that seems to already be taking place there, if you haven't noticed.

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