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Thread: The WEG - WotC conversion system is USELESS!!!

  1. #1
    Webmaster: SWRPGNetwork Conversions
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    Exclamation


    Well, I actually dont believe what I say in the subject line - but it got your attention, didnt it. :)

    Dear lord - the WEG conversion makes the old characters so powerful, it's not even funny! My smuggler - who I retired because he was too powerful (hey - it' was 5 years of gameplay! Gimmie a break!) - so far outclasses Han Solo, it's not even funny. There has to be something I'm doing wrong, or the system is really broken.

    Ok, here are the stats - lets check the numbers:

    DEXTERITY: 3D+1
    KNOWLEDGE: 1D+2
    MECHANICAL: 4D+2
    PERCEPTION: 3D
    STRENGTH: 3D+1
    TECHNICAL: 2D

    Which means I've got:

    STR: 15
    DEX: 15
    CON: 15
    INTELL: 10
    WIS: 13
    CHA: 13

    So far, so good - but then we get to the meat, the skills:

    Blaster: 5D+1
    Brawling Parry: 5D
    Dodge: 8D+1
    Grenade: 4D
    Melee Parry: 5D
    Melee: 5D
    (S) Whip: 9D
    Grabbing: 4D
    Running: 4D+2

    Alien Races: 2D+2
    Bureaucracy: 4D
    Cultures 3D+1
    Languages 4D
    Planetary Systems: 3D+2
    Streetwise: 4D
    Survival: 3D

    Astrogation: 7D
    Beast Riding: 5D
    Repulsorlift Op.: 7D
    Starship Weapons: 7D
    Space Transport Piloting: 12D
    Starship Shields: 7D
    Starfighter Piloting: 10D+2
    Technology: 3D
    Sensors Op.: 6D
    Ground Vehicle Op.: 5D

    Bargain: 5D
    Command: 6D
    Con: 7D
    Hide: 5D
    Sneak: 5D
    Search: 4D

    Brawling: 6D
    Climbing/Jumping: 7D
    Lifting: 5D
    Stamina: 5D+2
    (S) Hold Booze: 6D+2

    Demolitions: 3D
    Droid Program/Repair: 3D
    First Aid: 6D+1
    Security: 7D
    Space Transport Repair: 7D
    Starfighter Repair: 6D
    Starship Weapons Repair: 6D+1

    Which translates into:

    Alien Species +3
    Profession - Bureaucrat +7
    Know - Cultures +5
    Speak Languages +7
    Know - Planatary Systems +6
    Know - Streetwise +7
    Survival +4
    Know - Technology +4
    Climb +6
    Jump +6
    Diplomacy +6
    Bluff +12
    Hide +6
    Move Silently +6
    Search +2
    Spot +1
    Astrogate +7
    Ride +1
    Pilot +31 (TAKE THAT, Han Solo - and that's without the +5 from the high mech)
    Demolitions +3
    Computer Use +6
    Repair +27 (TAKE THAT, Macguyver!)
    Treat Injury +13
    Disable Device +15

    And a whole bunch of feats - but those arent important now. So with cross class skills and whatnot, we've got a grand total of 234 skill points - and weighs in as roughly a 28-ish level Scoundrel. That is so far off the charts, it's not even funny.

    Is there a problem with my math? Or is the conversion process THIS skewed.
    -Tony
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  2. #2
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    Default

    Yeah, it's pretty messed up.

    Have you seen Landon's method? It works surprisingly well...




    Step 1: Average the number of D in all of a WEG character's skills,
    singling it all down into one die code. Include Force skills for Jedi.

    Step 2: Use that number before the D as your converted character's
    level.

    Step 3: Roll up or approximate attributes, and just make the character
    again, keeping his general concept in mind when you do him/her over.

    Alternate Step 1: Total up the number of pips a character has in skills
    (not including attribute pips). Divide by 10.

    Alternate Step 2: Use that number as your converted character's level.

    Alternate Step 3: I'm not being sarcastic. This actually works for me,
    because it allows me to gain a rough idea of level without having to
    worry about the minutiae of conversion inconsistencies. Example:
    following the guidelines listed in the rulebook, Adol Larynth turns out
    to be an 18th Level Jedi Guardian with crazy amounts of skill points. In
    fact, I had to fudge, to get him that low. His original projected level
    was somewhere past 20. Now, at the end of his WEG career, he was not
    quite ready to become a Jedi Master, and had stats slightly lower (on
    average) than Obi-Wan's from the original Trilogy. Using the methods
    detailed above, I was able to nab a result of approximately 12th-13th
    level, which, if you check the class table for the Jedi Guardian, closer
    fits what I've described.

    I'm serious. Try this, and see what happens.

    - Landon




    Tell me what you think, everyone. I'll make sure Landon hears about it...
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    The STATS Man & Private Citizen
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  3. #3
    Administrator Moridin's Avatar
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    Default

    Me? I was going to post and say that the subject line of this message was absolutely right. Conversion number-by-number has been pretty useless. I think the best way to convert is to sit down and capture the spirit and skills of the character relatively accurately between the GM and the pleyer.
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  4. #4

    Default

    I'm wondering how long it'll be before someone puts together some sort of freeware conversion software. Heck...if I were a little more programming-savvy, I'd do it.

    I don't think the conversion system's entirely flawed. The problem, for me, comes with the skills that the character's developed out of necessity (say, for example, piloting skills) that would be considered cross-class skills under the new system. Using the conversion guidelines, to accommodate the number of ranks that those skills might translate out to requires a character's level to be bumped up considerably so as to not exceed the cross-class maximums.

    Or, one can bump those ranks down.

    Example--under the WEG system, my character had 2D in Mechanical, and had improved his Starship Piloting to 3D+2. This translates to 5 Feats for Pilot. Under the WotC system, he best translates as a multiclassed Jedi Guardian/Noble. To allow for those 5 Feats in Pilot, the character has to be a minimum of a 7th level character. (Which, now that I think of it, isn't too terribly out of line for a character who - on and off, with some very extended dry spells - has been rattling around for about 5 years. )

    All in all, I'd say that conversion will best be served by using the published conversion rules as a guide with a bit of fudging and some give-and-take on the part of the players and GM's. Probably wouldn't hurt, either, to have another set of eyes handy during the process.

    As long as the spirit of the character and what he/she can do translates through, all should run smoothly.
    "It's not my destiny...it's my choice."

  5. #5

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    It says in there that the system isn't perfect, and they are quite right.
    Anything worth having is worth fighting for.
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  6. #6
    Webmaster: SWRPGNetwork Conversions
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    Oh - and it's terrably incomplete, too. Where at the ship/vehicle conversions? We've got 7 or so lines, mostly consisting of "see chapter 10: Ships for more details".

    It looks like they ran out of room in the book - and if that's the case, why fill up the second half of the page with that drawing! Gimmie more info, damnit!
    -Tony
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    Come look at at my new obsession
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  7. #7
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    Lightbulb Re: Tony Super Genius and character conversion

    I have not spent much time reading the rules, however,
    I have come across one little gem on the
    very first page of skills, 061, that states:

    Your maximum rank in a class skill is your level +3.
    Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is half of this
    number (do not round up or down)

    Which makes sense since there are half ranks for
    cross-class skills.
    "What's this button do?"

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  8. #8
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    Question

    Ok I have yet to get the WOTC rules....

    and It's sad to hear the conversion system was done half assed.. but would it be just easier to recreate and 'fudge' the skill levels converte your characters from the WEG system ?

    When I do pick up the new system, I will probably eventually convert to it, but That means converting all my pc's to it. I don't want things seriously screwing up with this...

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  9. #9

    Default

    I wouldn't say it's so much that the conversion guidelines were done "half-assed," but more that some things just aren't going to translate properly going from one system to another. It's an inherent aspect of converting between two different systems.

    What I've found best so far is to use the conversion "rules" more as guidelines to help get a feel for how the character translates into the d20 system, and fudge here and there (up or down, as the case may be) to keep the character's spirit and flavor intact.

    And, in the end, isn't that the most important aspect of an RPG character?
    "It's not my destiny...it's my choice."

  10. #10
    Twi'lek Scoundrel
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    Smile I also agree with the title of the thread.

    However, I would only use the rules as a guideline to my character. I plan on using the attribute conversion system to get my characters attributes then I will select an appropriate level and class and go from there. Fairly similar to the way I converted from D&D 2nd ed to 3rd ed. Just fill in what is appropriate from the character class tables and select skill points and feats staying as close to the character's previous stats.

    Granted I don't know how good an Idea this actually is since I haven't got the core rule book yet, not sure if it is in Australia at all. Does anyone know if the release date was international? If not any of you fellow Aussies know when we will be graced with WOTC Star wars?
    We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

  11. #11
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    Default Australian release

    I have seen the core rulebook and character record sheets at the Daily Planet in Brisbane. I browsed the book but decided not to buy at this stage, seeing as it was A$75+. Personally, I'm sticking with the WEG system, but might consider picking up supplements, particularly the Dark Side book.
    danck
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  12. #12
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    Default skills...

    I personally do not like the way they
    have lumped all repair into one catagory.

    I think I may keep those seperate.
    Repairing a droid and a capital ship
    are not the same skill. some concepts
    may be similar in that sticking your tongue
    to the bare red wire and licking your fingers
    and grabbing the bare black wire is a bad
    idea for all electronics, but similarities
    will cease soon enough.
    "What's this button do?"

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  13. #13
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    Angry

    Yeah, I noticed 'Repair' too: my Jedi has meagre skill in Lightsabre repair and capship wpns repair, but this translates into 5 ranks of repair! (not bad!).

    As for character conversion: OMG! What a screw-up, Habuth and Emp.Xan are at home now brainstorming a 'reasonable' method (which doesn't result in us being 20th level but crap in many skills, and great in ones we used to be average at!!!).
    It doesn't help that the 'typical' characters (eg. typical starfighter pilot, etc) in the gamesmaster-section DO NOT abide by the skill-limits per level rule (or so Habuth and Emp.Xan tell me)......
    It's a helluva mess at the mo'
    (still, the rest of the system seems excellent in my first reading....)

  14. #14

    Default major wierdness


    Yeah, I noticed that they seemed to do that too, and I'm not sure why. Maybe that rule should be thrown out anyway? I think that the fast-play characters in the front of the book do that too, because the first-level fringer (racer) guy has nine ranks of Pilot! Even with Skill Emphasis, he ought to only have seven, right?

    Also, in regards to vitality points, I'm curious as to why a heavy blaster pistol bolt is any more tiring to dodge than, say, a hold-out blaster? I understand why they do different damage if they hit (Wound Points), but why if they "miss?"

    But I do like the system overall. Very cool.

  15. #15
    Retired Supreme Moff
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    Lightbulb

    Yep, they do violate the skill limit caps, as well as having too many skills for their level, sometimes too much by 150%. A bit silly realy. Hardly 'generic' characters.

    The conversion system itself is completely flawed, and we scrapped it.

    What we did was to work out what level we would have been, and then started new characters and built them upto that level. So my character is 13th level, but ended up with 7 levels in soldier, 4 in scout and 2 in scoundrel. Seems to work quite well...

    We also gave ourselves an extra 30% skill points, as our skill levels were still too low.

    So far so good. We think...
    You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters.

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