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Thread: Could you forgive Anakin?

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Could you forgive Anakin?

    For those who have seen ROTS, I ask you this.

    Could you forgive Anakin?

    After seeing all the death he brought to the Jedi, young and old, could you forgive him after all is said and done?

    If you lived during those dark times and than hear that Luke Skywalker, the son of Anakin, "redeems" him, could you tell Luke that you can forgive his father after seeing the security camera of what happened at the Jedi Temple?

    I have thought about it and still cannot truly decide.
    When you wish on a falling star, dreams can come true.

    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life.

    Than your pretty much hosed no matter what you wished for. Unless your wish was death by meteor, than you can die soundly knowing that wishes do come true.

  2. #2

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    hoenstly? yes. because in the end he proavbly did a world of good for the jedi by crushing the order like that

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    If I'm not a Jedi, I honestly could not, even if I did see the lost footage from the second Death Star that showed Vader sacrificing himself to save his son. Eventually, I might reconcile with it because of my own religion, but I'm still human.

    If I am a Jedi, and I could not reconcile with that fact, then I have totally ignored all my training. Eventually I will try to reconcile, because if I do not, I will follow Anakin on that same dark path. My thought would betray me, my emotion would cloud my better judgment. In the end, he is still one of us. Luke, Obi-Wan, and Master Yoda knew there is still some good in him despite his past deeds. While it is convenient to simply strike him down, Luke did one better: he brought Anakin back from the corruption of Palpatine and the Dark Side of the Force.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

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    As a regular person, I'd find it pretty hard to forgive Anakin for what he did as Vader. I'd go so far as to suggest he got exactly what he deserved for his actions; a lifetime of misery equal to the misery he caused.

    As a Jedi, forgiving Vader is almost expected after he sacrifices himself to destroy the Emperor, but I'm sure there are members of Luke's New Jedi Order that aren't thrilled with what Vader did in the name of service to the Empire.
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    Wow, where to start?

    Obi-wan seems very obviously to expect Vader to never be redeemed. One could argue that he's just saying that to push Luke to succeed, but I don't think so.

    On the other side of that coin... Yoda obviously understands what Luke's up against sending him after Vader... This whole time we focus on Vader... why? If Luke fails to redeem Anakin and ends up slaying him (or being slain) what's the point? The Emperor is still out there, and he's a force to be reconned with. Yoda's only hope in focussing Luke on Vader is to use him as a weapon against Vader's mind. We all understand how emotional Vader is. Yoda perhaps best of all. The Darkside doesn't exactly discourage being "emotional", so Yoda teaches Luke what he needs to know to be the perfect weapon against Vader. That is, just enough to survive Vader himself, and have the Emperor take an active hand in the circumstances. Ultimately Yoda HAD to believe that Anakin could be redeemed in order to make that Luke's final trial.

    With all that said... the following occurs to me:

    As a Jedi, there should be NOTHING, in respect to Anakin/Vader in your mind. You may consider that he should be hunted and killed for what he is... but what he's done shouldn't even play into the equation. If you consider what he's done, then you allow emotion to play a part in your decisions concerning him. Thus, as a Jedi, there is no forgiveness, for there is no reason TO forgive. You, emotionally, should never reach a point where you feel someone should be forgiven, or have the need to forgive them. If you do reach that point then you've failed yourself as a Jedi.

    I don't really see the point in answering the question for any viewpoint other than Jedi... too many variables.

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    Default IC.

    Why does it matter that me, Ordin Arysitizen, forgive Vader anyways?

    I can't do much about it either way. After all, I'm normal. I don't fly an X-wing. I don't have the means to go to the Imperial Academy. I'm not Force sensitive. The Empire is a fact of life. Who really cares?
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    Considering ONLY the attitudes of Yoda, the wisest and loving of Jedi and Obi-Wan Kenobi, I would have to say I would forgive Anakin, but I wouldn't "FORGIVE" him, meaning yes I wouldn't have the need to kill him since he turned from the darkside and walked back into the light, but he would still be expelled from the Jedi Order.

    No exceptions! In order for the Jedi code to have meaning it has to be obeyed no matter who is in question for once you start to make exceptions, you have failed the code.

    Jedi do not "forgive", as in wipe the slate clean, such a blatent disregard for the Jedi Code. To betray the Jedi in such a way means you will not be coming back to the Order, for as Yoda said, "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny". Once a Jedi has walked the dark path they can never again be a Jedi of the Republic.

    So I would forgive Anakin, but he would not be welcomed back amongst our ranks as a Jedi Knight.
    When you wish on a falling star, dreams can come true.

    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life.

    Than your pretty much hosed no matter what you wished for. Unless your wish was death by meteor, than you can die soundly knowing that wishes do come true.

  8. #8

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    That would push Ex-Vader Anakin into the realm of Rogue Force-User, which is extremely dangerous.

    I can see where you wouldn't want a reformed crimelord as a Cop, but Anakin will still need watching over, as well as guidance, so that he didn't start backsliding. It's a lot easier to keep him close at hand where you can watch & guide what he does than let him run around the galaxy doing whatever.

    While he wouldn't be an Official Jedi, he would still be associated even tho under a considerable amount of scrutiny & limitations (like not being allowed to teach Younglings).
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    Originally posted by Fred Getce

    So I would forgive Anakin, but he would not be welcomed back amongst our ranks as a Jedi Knight.
    From what I can see, only the Jedi Council can determine whether one can be reinstated back into the ranks.

    Makes me wonder if the Jedi Knights are a brotherhood with no internal rivalry. Doesn't it matter where you're from or what income class you grew up in? Would you hypothetically -- a son of a rich spice merchant -- look down on geeky awkward Padawan Apprentice from the Fringe, thinking of giving him a Force Swirly?
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

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  10. #10

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    I find that all highly unlikely considering the vast majority of Jedi don't remember anything before the Jedi temple. That was one of the largest factors in training Anakin. He had too much experience outside the temple.

    Count Dooku is a rare example of someone who's ties to the outside world are established and maintained. And again, we see how that turned out.
    Kris "Eclipse" Vanderwater

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    Originally posted by REG

    From what I can see, only the Jedi Council can determine whether one can be reinstated back into the ranks.
    The Jedi Council is destroyed. It is just you and Luke forming the New Jedi Council, however you were alive during events in Episode 2 and 3.

    It is very clear the Jedi do not hold the same ideals we would about a bad guy/good guy. They would expel him. If he turned to the dark path again, than they would kill him. Several EU sources can confirm this. If a Jedi leaves, or is expelled, than turns evil the Jedi will destroy them if necessary.

    Makes one wonder about the Jedi Order during Episodes 1,2 and 3. Perhaps they were corrupt and had lost their way. Only Luke was able to push past to the next leve of being a Jedi.
    When you wish on a falling star, dreams can come true.

    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life.

    Than your pretty much hosed no matter what you wished for. Unless your wish was death by meteor, than you can die soundly knowing that wishes do come true.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Fred Getce

    It is very clear the Jedi do not hold the same ideals we would about a bad guy/good guy. They would expel him. If he turned to the dark path again, than they would kill him. Several EU sources can confirm this. If a Jedi leaves, or is expelled, than turns evil the Jedi will destroy them if necessary.
    And what EU sources are you referring to? At least I'll have something on my summer reading list.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  13. #13

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    Originally posted by Fred Getce


    The Jedi Council is destroyed. It is just you and Luke forming the New Jedi Council, however you were alive during events in Episode 2 and 3.

    It is very clear the Jedi do not hold the same ideals we would about a bad guy/good guy. They would expel him. If he turned to the dark path again, than they would kill him. Several EU sources can confirm this. If a Jedi leaves, or is expelled, than turns evil the Jedi will destroy them if necessary.

    Makes one wonder about the Jedi Order during Episodes 1,2 and 3. Perhaps they were corrupt and had lost their way. Only Luke was able to push past to the next leve of being a Jedi.
    In Anakin's case, this is similar to dropping a bomb from an airplane, and then saying "if it goes off, we'll just fill in the crater." You know you've got someone who's potentially very dangerous & are just going to set them loose, without a thought to preventing the kind of harm they could commit if something goes wrong?

    Amazingly irresponsible of an Order that claims to defend the weak & promote peace.
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    Okay, perhaps I have misinterpret your meaning of redemption here, because last I checked, Anakin died, having sacrificed his life to save his son Luke by vanquishing Palpatine.

    IOW, he's dead. And for some reason, Luke saw his father's spirit standing beside his two Jedi mentors, because he's redeemed with the help of Luke . It's not like he became an angry spirit like Exar Kun.

    I know that in one book (by Timothy Zahn), Leia still have a hard time reconciling her feeling for her father he never knew other than his role as Darth Vader, especially when she visited the planet of the noghri and they first called her "Lady Vader." Her initial reaction was of disgust.

    So, can a redeemed Jedi be forgiven posthumously? Yeah, eventually.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

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    Originally posted by REG

    And what EU sources are you referring to? At least I'll have something on my summer reading list.
    From WEG RPG books, comics, Canon movies and a few EU books. To many to list though.
    When you wish on a falling star, dreams can come true.

    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life.

    Than your pretty much hosed no matter what you wished for. Unless your wish was death by meteor, than you can die soundly knowing that wishes do come true.

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