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Thread: This just seems odd to me...

  1. #16
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    I really don't think many people mourned the passing of the Old Republic. Even Padme commented, "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause." The mentality that led to both the Soviet regime in Russia and the Nazi regime in Germany was an attitude of "anything's better than this." In the prequels, we see a functioning Republic... or at least, it seems to be functioning to the affluent class on prosperous worlds such as Coruscant and Naboo. But the quiet revolution that brought Palpatine and the Empire to power was not the story of a conquering minority taking power counter to the will of the people. This was the story of a perfectly willing, neglected populace submitting to the iron fist of a dictator in the hopes that perhaps he could succeed in filling their bellies where the Republic had failed.

  2. #17
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    For people living under oppressive rule time seems to disappear - the past becomes a distant memory, the future (hope) doesn't exist and the present is all-encompassing.

    From the eyewitness accounts i have read and listened to of people under Soviet rule and Nazi rule, and even Burmese and North Korean rule, it seems the easiest way for people to cope with a high level of oppression is to drown themselves in everyday things - the struggle to survive, the meaningless work, etc - and to reminisce about the old days as if they are on the distant verges of memory. The old if i can't see it it won't affect me kinda thing.

    Even in society's with relative freedom, but high rates of crime, a similar situation exists - try hard to ignore the problems and maybe it won't hurt me - S.Africa is a prime example - unfortunately seeing as it is such a beautiful place (not that i've been, just heard) but fortunately freedom of movement is not restricted, so many people are getting out.

    Anyhoo, enough rambling
    Last edited by IzVenjari; 14 May 2006 at 08:30 PM.

  3. #18
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    That makes a lot of sense, IzVenjari. I can't say much from my own experience about the past becoming a distant memory, but it does seem to be that way. I only met one person in Russia who was old enough to remember the Bolshevik Revolution, and she was only a little girl at the time - not really aware of the politics of what was going on, or even aware of what the change represented. Again, also, I go back to the point of the past being not a particularly happy memory for a lot of those people, too. The Russians saw Lenin and the Bolsheviks as their saviors from economic depression and starvation, just as the Germans saw Hitler and the Nazis as their saviors from economic depression and starvation.

    Evidence for that kind of parallel is present in the Star Wars movies. The Republic must have been strapped for cash, or the whole taxation of trade routes issue wouldn't have come up in the first place. Also Shmi Skywalker's assertion that "The Republic doesn't exist out here," despite Padm's apparent understanding that, at least officially, Tatooine was part of the Republic. Not to mention the kind of things going on in Coruscant's undercity. These were people ripe for revolution. But now I'm just repeating myself...

  4. #19
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    Moderators please delete this duplicate post.

  5. #20
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    I think Palpatine planned on living forever, that's why he didn't pick a sucessor to his Empire. He had the Cloning Facility in the Deep Core to continuously supply him with a fresh body to take over when the Dark Side consumed the one he was in.
    He just wasn't figuring on death that far away from the cloning facilities. Remember, "everything has been proceeding as I foreseen it". The Emperor was counting on Victory at Endor, not defeat. He foresaw a great victory for the Empire at Endor, according to his vision of the future.
    What I can say of history is this. No matter how long a civil war lasts, the damage is there for a long time. I was in Bosnia a couple years after the war was interrupted by peacekeepers. I've been to Sarajevo in 1999, and then there were still buildings with bullet holes still in them. I went on patrols and watched people clean unexploded ordinance out of their destroyed houses, in attempts to rebuild their lives.
    And I agree on the idea of the Empire forming around the events of Episode 1. It makes sense after you consider it. After all, Obi-Wan does say "before the dark times, before the Empire".
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  6. #21
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    But didn't the Emperor forsee himself being defeated by Luke and Vader together?

  7. #22
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    not necessarily. Remember he says before the fight begins, "as you know your father can never be turned from the darkside"
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  8. #23
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    True... but turning Vader back to the light side is not the same as Vader and Luke joining to defeat the Emperor. My understanding is that what the Emperor foresaw, or what he thought he foresaw, was that Luke would turn to the dark side, become Vader's apprentice, and together they would kill the master, in the old Sith tradition. However, both Vader and the Emperor are known liars, so who knows who could have really been foreseeing what?

  9. #24
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    Even if he did foresee him dying to Vader and Luke, that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to change things. I am sure it is something he didn't want to happen, so he would have lied when he needed to in order to survive.
    Tonyx

  10. #25
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    shaking hand and rolling dice to check against bluff/con by the Emperor. Oh man, I failed again. Just like many citizens of the Empire.
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  11. #26
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    I think that sometimes we underestimate the power that the Emperor had and that he used. Many failed as gmjabreson did to pass a con check against him. He seamed too nice or something, I don't know, it is odd, but he just conned everyone into things, and it worked!

    Tonyx

  12. #27
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    Actually one must remember that the Empire fought on longer after the Battle of Endor. They just didn't "Give up" or anything like that. So if you take into consideration the event of Palpy being appointed Chancellor at the End of Episode 1, and that it was I think 19(?) After Battle of Yavin that the Empire Finally agreed to a Peace agreement between itself and the New Republic (Hand of Thrawn duology and ensuing comics).
    So it would appear that the Empire was actually around longer and still dominated parts of the Galaxy for over 40 years.
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  13. #28

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    I thought the Empire was truly revived when Thrawn showed up and then when Daala showed up, those two were beasts I would have been scared if they both were working together at the same time that could have really done some damage

  14. #29
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    Originally posted by Ubiqtorate
    But didn't the Emperor forsee himself being defeated by Luke and Vader together?
    In the words of The Matrix: You can never see past a decision you don't understand.

    Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Yelrahc
    I thought the Empire was truly revived when Thrawn showed up and then when Daala showed up, those two were beasts I would have been scared if they both were working together at the same time that could have really done some damage
    Daala would have at best stewed under the leadership of Thrawn. Her greatest strength upon attacking was her determination, but she wasted resources to an extent Thrawn would have stripped her of her rank.

    On note about Thrawn, is it just me or did the Moff Council have no input during his period as warlord?
    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  15. #30
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    As far as the Emperor foreseeing his own death, remember Yoda's words "Hard to see, the dark side is." I think that being so tainted may have led to a distortion of his visions, where he saw what he wanted. After 20 years, it is a long time, and may seem to be forever. Remember that speaking of eras, a generation is generally every 20-25 years. Most of a generation had grown up knowing only the Empire. As for if it seems to be an Evil Empire, in most cases it depends on if your the ones being oppressed.

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