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Thread: SSD Crash-Landing: Plausible Effects?

  1. #76
    Jedi General Drendar Morevo's Avatar
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    For some reason, this is a visual effect I would LOVE to see.


    The great silver dagger was no longer hanging in the sky, no, it was now dipping, somewhat towards the planet. Something had gone horribly wrong, and the ship was now getting larger to those on the ground. The great vessel's engines were unable to pick her back up into space, it seemed that the planet itself was going to haul it to the ground. As it careened through the sky, it left a great fire-trail of smoke looking as a massive asteroid entering the atmosphere, the sonic-boom it made was more than deafening, it was destructive, blasting entire forests down beneath it, lakes hit by the passing wave of sound were nearly entirely cast out. As the ship fell, it lanced through an entire mountain, tearing it asunder, her shields now entirely spent, she started to break-up, bits of hull flying off and the command tower now clearly gone, her clean lines annihilated. And quickly enough she plowed into a vast plain, carving a great furrow into the earth, destroying everything that stood between it and its final resting place. When it finally stopped, some 2000 km from its beginning, a trip that look not more than a minute, it lay in a self made valley, half buried in rock and dirt. She did not explode, but instead sat there motionless, dead to everything around her, with only a trail of destruction to marvel upon.
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  2. #77
    Registered User FULONGAMER's Avatar
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    Cool Ask and ye shall recieve

    Originally posted by Drendar Morevo
    For some reason, this is a visual effect I would LOVE to see.


    I just get the strangest feeling that Writers/artists for "The Force Unleashed" might just have been lurking about the Forums when this discussion was in full bloom

    FULONGAMER Casts: Thread Necromancy, BTW
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  3. #78
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    I'm still plotting a way to create a campaign around this idea, definately can do it and make it interesting enough.

    Just have to figure some things out.....
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  4. #79
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    I hope you don't mind, but I went ahead and opened up a recruiting thread for a campaign based on this very idea.
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  5. #80
    Registered User FULONGAMER's Avatar
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    Cool The Necronomicron Speaks: The Rise of the Fall

    Originally posted by gmjabreson
    I hope you don't mind, but I went ahead and opened up a recruiting thread for a campaign based on this very idea.
    So? What happened. How did the adventure/campaign play out? Is it a GGGG (Good Games Go Great) moment or what?
    FULONGAMER aka Johannes M. Bowers
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    Game was on here, and was going pretty good. Then real life stepped in. College started for some, others got busy, etc. before things got "interesting"

    I had survivors of both the crew and the ground element on the planet, ship was going to need a massive overhaul just to get in space. Contingent plan was to evac the main computer and personnel blow ship should Rebels try to take her.

    I don't want to spoil too much, should the game restart here sometime, but it was definately worth writing up the idea.
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  7. #82
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    I have not read through all of this but I LOVE the seed of this idea. It got all manner of creative juices flowing for me in a way I have not had in years. I have a D&D campaign to wrap up, but when I am done this goes to the top of my list.

    My thoughts:

    1) Don't worry too much about scientific accuracy...this is space opera we are talking about not sci fy.

    2) I would (and will) make the planet pre-FTL travel. Perhaps even at the same tech level as earth current with some magical/spiritual elements to leave room for " the force".

    The characters will start out as members of the native culture who has been decimated by the crash. I want the event to be significantly long ago that the event is "history" and not "current events". In the story line there have been numerous expiditions to the crash site, but none have come back. The native society is in tatters and is subject to strict class rules that determine your occupation and how you will live your life. Never the less each generation has it's "adventurers" that try to raise their class by striking out and investigating the cause of the holocaust that changed everything.

    So if we are looking at 45 to 60 years that the ship has been on the planet, and we want a significantly large ship (ISD size would be fine really) to cause a holocaust, how close to the New Republic era can we place this?
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  8. #83
    Registered User FULONGAMER's Avatar
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    Cool The Necronomicron Speaks: How soon is too soon?

    Originally posted by Dr_Worm
    So if we are looking at 45 to 60 years that the ship has been on the planet, and we want a significantly large ship (ISD size would be fine really) to cause a holocaust, how close to the New Republic era can we place this?
    You basically have any point from the Start of the Clone Wars forward. +45-60 years would be pretty much right in the middle of NR timelines for a early CW era ship, but no need to be limited there. Any date further along is just fine too. Want to set it in the VongWars era? The Fate of the Jedi era? Legacy era? beyond? All are good. There's enough action going on throughout that span of time to end up with an ISD off the radar and unaccounted for, especially among the thousands making up the Imperial fleet at its height. (and all the off-book blackops the Emperor put a side-bet on). Mix that mission profile with an uncharted planet (there are lots) and run with it.

    Good luck!
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  9. #84
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    Cool The Necronomicron Speaks: Clone Wars did it

    BTW, if you check out the Clone Wars season 2 DVDs (young Boba Fett story arc) you get to see the example of an Acclamator SD crash-landing/ed on a planetary surface.
    Last edited by FULONGAMER; 28 March 2011 at 04:56 AM.
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  10. #85
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    Gotta admit, this has been a really interesting read.

    I'm trying to remember if I was following it years ago when it started...

    "All too easy." -Darth Vader

  11. #86
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    I think I'll run this one again during my break at the end of the semester, between May 3 and June 7. It will definitely be small scale, but will not get into too many details at this time.

    First time I ran this started out fine, but fizzled out. Hoping this time to get through the adventure.
    Through darkness we travel, searching for the vibrant silence of light ahead. Though death may take us here, we push on until the evil in this land is vanquished.

  12. #87
    Registered User Grade's Avatar
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    I remember there was questions being answer by some one in the wizards Star Wars site, and has I recall and SSD uncontrolled crash can be equally viewed as a global killer.

    This is due to the dimensions of SSD and its massive weight of ship being pushed into a planet was equally to an asteroid of the same dimension.

    However since this is fiction, we which one of us may choose what to do.

    I for one made a planet that was destroyed by a SSD like size ship that end all life on the planet and was made by the Empire into a prison facility, since the surface was unbreathable, escaping the prison is nearly impossible.
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  13. #88
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    Cool The Necronomicron Speaks: The Micro and the Macro

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but the opinions over on the Wizards boards fail to take most of the meat of this thread into account. Give it a full read thru and make your own opinion from the various arguments and scenarios here.

    An uncontrolled SSD freefalling into a planet will be devastating in the local area (local on a continental scale) but not definitively a "planet killer" ELE event. The SSD is not solid like an asteroid. It has more volume than its mass would indicate because of all the hollow regions (chambers, habitation decks, hangars, engine reactors, etc). It is most certainly not a "solid" durasteel dart, and shouldn't be compared to an asteroid of similar dimension.

    Also the size of the SSD is actually somewhat insignificant on a planetary scale. Earlier in the thread I suggested taking something like google earth and "drawing" a SSD sized triangle on it somewhere, then zooming out. As you do you will discover the juxtaposition of the planetary micro scale (street level local) to the planetary macro scale perspective.

    You also have to consider the manner of such an event's occurence, are you talking a linear turbonium dirt-dart (maximum speed minimum surface area), a flat pancake bellyflop (minimum speed, maximum surface area, possible aerodynamic effect), an end-over-end and/or broadside rolling tumble, or a lateral insertion, pulling a SDF-1 style decaying orbital burn-in that eventually grounds out in a skipping-slide instead of a vertical descent? All of which will have an effect on the resulting circumstances and scope of effects for the local and greater planetary ecosystems and inhabitants.

    You could also swing the other way and have a Zentraedi / ID4 type wreck drilled into the planet like a titanic tent-stake and leave it towering thru the clouds up to the cruising altitudes of Jetliners in the midst of hundreds of square miles of devastation.

    Mt. St. Helens? Krakatoa? Certainly, and then some. Armageddon? Not so much. Of course the math is entirely different if it were to be an "under Power" kamikaze scenario. Maximum Sublight Drive in the SWU is nothing to sneeze at. And for a Hyperdrive assisted planetfall, all bets are off and every result is on the table, up to and including planetary breakup.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatoa
    (think approximately double to triple this)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Saint_Helens
    (think approximately 20 times this)
    Last edited by FULONGAMER; 24 April 2011 at 05:56 PM.
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  14. #89
    Registered User Grade's Avatar
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    As i said, each person has his version.

    You make good point, however you forget that durasteel is not there only to make the shape of the ship and make boundary between breathable atmosphere inside the ship and the vacuum of space. It is product to endure hits from cannon laser\ rays weapons, because if it didn't it would be useless material.

    I think that durasteel can sustains most of re-entry in a planet, but even if it breaks apart we are talking 20 kilometres (not sure how many miles it is) wide ship, with reactors on board, volatile projectiles (i mean the cannons fire is not something you can pickup with your hands, because is sort of concentrated energy) and several massive engines. All of that has his own weight.

    If the SSD becomes uncommandable like the Executor at Endor, it can be global killer, if not make serious reaction to the planet's ecosystem and atmosphere (which is what i did to the planet i created). Now if you talk about controllable descent, it is possible to land a SSD without much damage to the planet.

    I also leave curious question. How did Anakin made a controllable descent without any engines? I mean the ship breaks in half, they weren't on the side of the engines.
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    Cool The necronomicron Speaks: of strengths and controls

    Originally posted by Grade
    As i said, each person has his version.

    You make good point, however you forget that durasteel is not there only to make the shape of the ship and make boundary between breathable atmosphere inside the ship and the vacuum of space. It is product to endure hits from cannon laser\ rays weapons, because if it didn't it would be useless material.

    I think that durasteel can sustains most of re-entry in a planet, but even if it breaks apart we are talking 20 kilometres (not sure how many miles it is) wide ship, with reactors on board, volatile projectiles (i mean the cannons fire is not something you can pickup with your hands, because is sort of concentrated energy) and several massive engines. All of that has his own weight.
    Upper limit is 19 KM long, 17 in other contested sources, 6 KM wide., 1.5 to 2 KM thick at the thickest point. (1.6 km to a mile, for conversion math) Purported to have hull plating 19 Meters thick. If the energy of the turbolasers is pure energy, it is derived from the primary or substation reactors. Or, (alternately) as seen in the ship-to-ship combat scenes of ROTS, they use encapsulated ammunition just like traditional artillery, simply designed for SW Plasma weapons tech. I was most certainly accounting for the durability of durasteel. In fact, the more durable it is, the less damaging the event, as it serves to contain the superstructure of the ship and the reactors, rather than vaporizing/breaking apart significantly and adding to the particulate cloud and radiating blast debris from the impact crater. The more resistant the SSD is to reentry degradation the more likely the event to resemble the Capital Ship graveyards of Robotech.

    Originally posted by Grade
    If the SSD becomes uncommandable like the Executor at Endor, it can be global killer, if not make serious reaction to the planet's ecosystem and atmosphere (which is what i did to the planet i created). Now if you talk about controllable descent, it is possible to land a SSD without much damage to the planet.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aters_on_Earth
    (Impact craters >20KM diameter on earth for comparison)
    Please note also that the comparisons of the Executor darting into the DS2 are nothing at all like what would happen on a planet. The Circumference of the DS2 is miniscule compared to that of a planet, and if you will note, the DS2 took the Executor without a problem. Well, problems for exactly where it hit and the immediately surrounding sections and decks, but the whole station didn't even hiccup or break stride, other than to knock folks over who handily survived (the next few minutes anyway). And it wasn't even fully built and structurally at its maximum potential. If the DS2 could take it, a planet can without a doubt. Critical local impact to the ecosystem, definitely, possible long term Serious effects gobally, but unlikely to be completely terminal except in the most extreme conditions, or over an extended period. It would not generate a "Genesis Wave" of destruction. Depending on the type, speed and nature of the impact and aftermath, Species killer is not an incredible stretch, even several Species, but all life? It would have to be a pretty sparsely inhabited and fragile biosphere to be broken completely by by what amounts to a major volcanic event or a limited (read localize to the point of impact) Nuclear War. Note I said Volcanic event, not "Supervolcano" (like the thing under Yellowstone) because of the completely insignificant size of the thing, comparatively. Big to us is a microdot to the planet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Supervolcano
    (think 1/100th of this) (note the caldera map, it has a useful scale bar)

    Originally posted by Grade
    I also leave curious question. How did Anakin made a controllable descent without any engines? I mean the ship breaks in half, they weren't on the side of the engines.
    That would be the "Primary Drive Engines". There have to be numerous attitude control and maneuvering thrusters as well as control surfaces all over the craft from bow to stern. Know what those three batteries of three holes each are on the space shuttle's nose (top below the viewports and on each side of the nose)? Maneuver thrusters. On the bow of a supertanker or cruise ship, there are massive props located in chambers perpindicular to the ship to swing the nose. The Death's Head is undoubtedly similarly equipped with a variety of supplementary thrusters and maneuvering engines. Also those systems would operate on local substation reactors and not be incapacitated just because the back half of the ship fell off. Redundancy and compartmentalization rear their heads again to insure any disaster is not a complete disaster.
    Last edited by FULONGAMER; 24 April 2011 at 06:17 PM.
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