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Thread: WotC is NOT renewing Star Wars license

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    Default WotC is NOT renewing Star Wars license


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    And here was me coming to post this.

    M'eh, doesn't bother me too much - I've got all the RCR books and SE didn't really grab me, so I'm okay.
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    Yeah, it's a big bummer, but I suspected--& hoped I was wrong--when Rodney started concentrating on Dark Sun & nothing was announced past April '10.
    However, I love Saga Ed. & I don't plan to stop playing, or completing the family collection of books. Look at D6, it's still going strong, ages after that license ended.

    The gist of most comments on d20 Radio's SWSE & Order 66 forums are mainly along the same lines.

    Also, for those who never listen to the Order 66 podcast, that will continue:
    GM Chris' announcement

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    And this is most likely the end of any official RPG for Star Wars. Even if another company takes over (or WotC re-invents it), it won't be the same and it will inevitably wind up back here again. R.I.P Star Wars RPG.

    Lets face it, most of us are gettin' over the hill, with precious few replacements coming in behind.

    I saw this coming last year, so it was no big surprise; Rodney's reassignment move was all the proof I needed to change my speculation to sadness.

    I guess this is as good as time as any to quite role-playing (since Star Wars is the only RPG I play now). After this campaign finishes sometime later this year, I think I'm going to call it quits for good. We'll see though; this is something I've been doing for a long time, so I don't know if its something one can just "give up"; maybe it will just be a long hiatus for me, until a game eventually pulls me back in for a little while.
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    Moderator: Roleplaying Forum coldskier0320's Avatar
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    NOTE: Totally missed this thread. Sorry guys, we now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

    Also, my take: despite the marketing, Saga really is/was a DnD4e testbed. I have no problem with that. Its not a bad game by any means, and it generated alot of content, which is never a bad thing. Cant blame them for it either, going to a franchise with an absolutely ravenous fan base to see how the mechanics will fare with their flagship line.

    I'm just really looking forward to who will try their luck with that license next.
    Last edited by coldskier0320; 29 January 2010 at 08:54 AM.
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    Okay, this announcement is not unexpected.

    First off all I want to say thanks to Rodney and the other guys at WotC, who did a great job with Saga Edition.

    Am I sad that it comes to an end? Not really.

    I enjoy SE, like I enjoyed all previous editions, starting with WEG's 1st edition.

    BUT: How many more books do I need to play? My biggest problem with WEG was the amount of books they produced, books that contained not really much useful information (at least the later ones).

    Including the upcoming The Unknown Regions SE will have 14 books plus one GM Screen. I think that is enough stuff to make an interesting game for years to come.

    There are other websites with very interesting stuff, like saga-edition.com and FandomComics.com (not to mention this forum) that will hopefully make new material.

    Then there is the announcement on Starwars.com:

    http://starwars.com/games/othergames...otc/index.html

    Lucas Licensing continues to see miniatures, roleplaying games and card games as viable and important elements in its Star Wars licensing program, both in digital form (like the recently launched trading card game within Star Wars Galaxies), and in physical products like figures, books and cards. Keep checking StarWars.com for announcements regarding future products in this area in the coming months.
    So maybe there will be another version from another publisher in the future.

    Will I take a look at this? Certainly. Will I switch over again? I am not sure, since I enjoy SE very much and think it is the best edition of SWRPG for the time being.

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    Originally posted by coldskier0320
    I'm just really looking forward to who will try their luck with that license next.
    Not to be a Negative Nancy here, but I doubt anyone will. For the cost of the license would almost certainly be out of the reach of most of the smaller companies, and recent trends have just reaffirmed that you're better off developing your own trademarked content then trying to borrow someone else's.

    Having to work through Lucasfilm and the crazy continuity guidelines just makes Star Wars even less appealing than other potential properties.

    Many thanks to Wizards for taking up the torch so many years ago, but I am also in the category of "not terribly surprised," and haven't actually played Star Wars anything in about a year now. I also haven't played any other WotC product besides d20 Modern in a similar stretch of time (we play d20M games that are mostly zombie apocalypse/low fantasy when too many people are out of town to continue our regular game). Whoops, I take that back, I still play Axis & Allies regularly.
    Last edited by Ardent; 29 January 2010 at 01:38 PM.
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    In that case, I look for RCR to make a slight resurgence, as well as D6 regaining some of the prominence lost to d20 when WotC took over. For my part, I'll have to dust off the old D6 stuff and maybe consider getting back into that.
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    As a d6er it is sad to see this as wizards put out some great content.

    But we play d6, which has been long dead, and we enjoy it. The community will keep churning out stuff.

    Have no fear.

    D20 will live in the hearts of gamers just as d6 has. Roleplaying isn't going anywhere, you will just have to be more imaginative and creative- which is what makes roleplaying what it is. In a way, it may even get better.
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    Personally I can't see Lucas Licensing letting the minis line die since that was insanely profitable for them and WotC. While I'm hoping that perhaps West End Games manages to grab the license, I'll probably give whoever works on it a try. This just means I have to grab the 5 or so books that I don't have before they go out of print too.
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    Sad to see, but I don't have much money for books these days anyway so even though I'm a Saga player this won't really affect me. Still sad to see though.
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    Heard about this from a friend IRL and just had to come by and verify it.

    While I'm sad that the license will not be renewed, at the same time I've gotten a bit annoyed with WotC and with the d20 system in general. One thing that was always a bugger was that it took roughly 1d4+1 hours to generate a character for the game, trying to figure out how to get everything to mesh together well. I've also disappointed with Wizards' policy of coming out with new revisions fairly soon, necessitating us gamers to buy all these new books again. (And considering the price of these books and the general income level of us gamers, that's a bit difficult.) The considerable improvements of SAGA over RCR notwithstanding, I stopped playing SWRPG here because everyone else upgraded and I, being a stingy Hutt, never did.

    Ironically, the decision for WotC to not renew the license may encourage me to go out and buy the books, since they've come down in price lately and probably will continue for awhile as bookstores just want to get rid of copies (but before they become, you know, "collectible.")

    [jaded]

    I have to say I don't know who will pick up the license yet, and nobody might for awhile; the license is undoubtably expensive, and in this crappy economy that might be too much money to risk. Plus, Star Wars is, unfortunately, a tired property. The EU drivel created by Bantam and LFL in the form of the NJO and LotF books damaged the entire franchise as a whole by turning it into nothing more than another corporate money machine, and then the Great Flanneled One himself with his knuckledragging across the Clone Wars era hasn't helped either. Many newcomers find Star Wars to be a bit dumb, and looking at what's come along lately, I can't argue with them so much. I mean, Backstroke to the West was about as good as the real Episode III, and that's kinda sad.

    [/jaded]

    As for systems, I will be willing to try out d6. I got the entire generic line a few months back when they offered it for free (dunno if it still is). It seems like a pretty good system, and I would like to move away from classes and concrete levels as I find they hinder as much as they help. Although that may come from playing Savage Worlds lately, and that's a really fast system I like. That could do Star Wars easily, I think. Oh, and then there's True20, which I like because it only uses one die. And that too is fast, although tracking damage is sometimes annoying...

    But anyways, that's my 50 creds of opinion on the matter. It kinda sucks, but overall its not really a problem. There are dozens of books, even dozens more of conversions, bulk transports full of fan material, and in the end, as long as you can throw something together and have a good time, that's all that matters.
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    Still, first and foremost, biggest gripe for SWSE was the abstract ability modifiers tacked onto vehicles and starships.

    Insult to injury is there still being a complete lack of vehicle creation rules. Without rules for the community to build and modify vehicles, it's become a system dependant monopoly by the creators who are holding on tight to the "Enigma Box" (old WW2 British/German naval reference).

    Anyone even try to attempt to reverse engineer those vehicles to try and decipher a set of creation rules?

    If anyone bothers to notice and compare, since the SWSE launch, even as the comunity here dwindled over time, theres practically been barely any new user created vehicles posted. Compare that to the RCR system or even D6 system, where there used to be tons of vehicles posted.

    As a GM, half the fun of running the adventure was coming up with and creating new stuff for the players. If there was something I wanted and it wasn't in the books, with RCR and D6. we're given the rules to create our own content.

    So, this thread is about the end of the license for the SWSE books.

    The whole point I'm making here is questioning how much longevity will the books / system have after the license has expired?

    Especially when for something as a basic necessity such as Land and Air Speeders - people will have no choice but to pick out one of the dozen or so provided in the books, and especially when they want to come up with a new speeder type or design, when already we have to look through the books and play "which speeder stats in the book will best match what i want for my newly designed speeder" ....

    If this was D6 or RCR - hey, no problem, pull out the rules and in a few minutes put one together, custom tailored specific for said vehicle or ship.

    Only sad part here is there won't be any new books put out in any system for the next while or forseeable future.

    But then again, as someone said above, if SWSE falls out of interest due to some of its shortcomings, there just might be a resurgence in both D6 and RCR.

    With either or both systems i'd be a happy camper...

    As for the official sw announcement page:
    Lucas Licensing continues to see miniatures, roleplaying games and card games as viable and important elements in its Star Wars licensing program, both in digital form (like the recently launched trading card game within Star Wars Galaxies), and in physical products like figures, books and cards. Keep checking StarWars.com for announcements regarding future products in this area in the coming months.
    I wouldn't be surprised if LFL itself continues on some of the products like the minis, or comes up with its own rpg game system. I don't know if it'll be a good or bad thing, guess we'll have to see.


    :edit / addendum:

    Ok, I just looked, searched and confirmed it for my own edification. Having gone back page by page to late 2007, there's practically no user made / posted vehicle stats threads with the [SAGA] or [STATS] prefix.

    IMHO, that truly is a shock and a shame. People adopted and switched over to SWSE, but only to play the game with what they're provided with. That really is a atark comparison to the RCR days where there used to be tons of [STATS] prefixed threads for new community made stuff.
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    Originally posted by Terras Jadeonar & Raven
    Ok, I just looked, searched and confirmed it for my own edification. Having gone back page by page to late 2007, there's practically no user made / posted vehicle stats threads with the [SAGA] or [STATS] prefix.

    IMHO, that truly is a shock and a shame. People adopted and switched over to SWSE, but only to play the game with what they're provided with. That really is a atark comparison to the RCR days where there used to be tons of [STATS] prefixed threads for new community made stuff.
    To answer your previous gripe about vehicle creation: the method is "whatever works, works." There's no common logic modality between books.

    Part of why there's not a whole lot of stuff that has been posted for Saga has less to do with the system not lending itself to creation, and more to do with the creative-types heading out for different systems. As I said, I haven't played anything Star Wars in about a year, and when I did it was my own ruleset, that's only loosely based on d20. As I started playing more systems outside of d20 and D6 more frequently, I remembered why I had so enjoyed playing Vampire back in high school (it has nothing to do with the content, which is totally fungible frankly). The system is loose -- jarringly so for someone coming from d20 -- and highly adaptable. There's an emphasis on storytelling, which is my favorite aspect of role-playing games despite the impression many seem to have of me. Going further and playing things like L5R, GURPS and some even less crunch-intensive games really got me back into gaming.

    I still appreciate d20 for forwarding some of the best material around, and because it attracts so many mechanics there's a lot to be said for the system. But D&D4 showed me the direction it was going and, while not totally unpalatable, wasn't what I was looking for out of tabletop gaming. Like I said, I still play Axis & Allies with some frequency. That gets me my tactical/strategic gaming fix. Wizards still has an amazingly strong product line, and if more d20 Modern were to come along I'd be highly tempted to get back into it, provided the material was still strong (can I prod you any louder, Rodney?).

    I've been playing Exalted and Scion for about three years now off and on, and have been thoroughly enjoying myself. From a mechanical standpoint, the rules are elegant and understated. They implicitly take a backseat to making a great a story. That doesn't mean I don't get to flex my mechanical mind, because games being what they are there's still plenty to finesse and lawyer. But they really let me explore interesting characters moreso than those characters mechanical abilities. Of course, I can't stand the New World of Darkness stuff, and have thus far not played any of them, although I have watched a couple of games and browsed the books. But Exalted and Scion use fundamentally similar systems to achieve fundamentally similar goals and I don't have to bring my emotional baggage regarding Old World of Darkness with me. Which has been very positive.

    Star Wars used to be escapist. But lately it's become very...much like a trap. You feel like you're engaging in an escapist activity, but when you stop and analyze it you realize it's all subtle commentary on current events and you get frustrated. Which may explain why Star Wars has declined in popularity with gamers. We're in it primarily for the escapism, right? It has almost nothing to do with what Rodney and his team provided, and everything to do with what other products Lucasfilm and George Lucas have produced, to be clear. But it indelibly stains the Wizards products by association.
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    Terras Jadeonar & Raven:

    I can't agree with you concerning vehicle creation. I have created lots of vehicles and starships for my game, without an better creation system. I have done it mostly by comparison between official stats and my creations. I also used the conversion document to convert vehicles created for RCR.
    And although I have Starships of the Galaxy and Threats of the Galaxy, I use mostly my own versions of vehicles and NPCs.
    Unfortunatly I can not post these, because they are in German.

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