Overall Thoughts?

[Mack Jace]

Just looking to see what everyone's thoughts on the new system are. I've fiddled with it in bookstores a bit, and seems easy enough to pick up. Is there anything that really irks you about it? Or anything that really stands out as well done?

[coldskier0320]

I have yet to actually see it in action in a game that I'm a part of, but my initial thoughts are:

1) The books themselves are outstanding. Well made, the materials seem high quality, the artwork is absolutely gorgeous, and things are explained pretty clearly and are (usually) organized intuitively, with helpful charts where necessary.

2)The system seems great at keeping things moving, with the tradeoff of being more demanding on the GM to interpret and invent on the fly (compared to d20). This isn't necessarily better or worse, just different...though if you have that experienced GM, it's likely to make sessions more fun.

3) So far, my biggest gripe (likely as a d20 convert) is the lack of any sort of framework for scaling between characters in an objective way. WotC gave us levels and classes. I understand that the FFG system just simply does not allow for such a setup, but there should still be something (possibly straight XP number conversion?) to allow me to quickly do up some NPCs with capabilities relative to my PCs/party. For example, what if I have a party of 5 PCs and want to make some rivals, a pair, that are more than a match for the whole group? Now what if I want to throw a squad of 12 soldiers at them that will be tough, but should be manageable? Now how about a single baddie that they really shouldn't tangle with head-on, but rather should bring help, or otherwise stack the deck a bit before confronting? Sure, within the story this can be handled, but surely there should be a way that I can go, "Okay, I have 5 PCs that have XYZ experience...if I make this foe with VWX experience, he should be able to hold his own..."

[Mack Jace]

I have yet to actually see it in action in a game that I'm a part of, but my initial thoughts are:

1) The books themselves are outstanding. Well made, the materials seem high quality, the artwork is absolutely gorgeous, and things are explained pretty clearly and are (usually) organized intuitively, with helpful charts where necessary.

2)The system seems great at keeping things moving, with the tradeoff of being more demanding on the GM to interpret and invent on the fly (compared to d20). This isn't necessarily better or worse, just different...though if you have that experienced GM, it's likely to make sessions more fun.

3) So far, my biggest gripe (likely as a d20 convert) is the lack of any sort of framework for scaling between characters in an objective way. WotC gave us levels and classes. I understand that the FFG system just simply does not allow for such a setup, but there should still be something (possibly straight XP number conversion?) to allow me to quickly do up some NPCs with capabilities relative to my PCs/party. For example, what if I have a party of 5 PCs and want to make some rivals, a pair, that are more than a match for the whole group? Now what if I want to throw a squad of 12 soldiers at them that will be tough, but should be manageable? Now how about a single baddie that they really shouldn't tangle with head-on, but rather should bring help, or otherwise stack the deck a bit before confronting? Sure, within the story this can be handled, but surely there should be a way that I can go, "Okay, I have 5 PCs that have XYZ experience...if I make this foe with VWX experience, he should be able to hold his own..."

1) That's good to hear. One of my favorite parts of the WotC books was the different artwork that they had, and I was a little disappointed to see a good bit of it reused for SAGA.

2) Different is ok by me. One of the things I've been wondering about is if this system would be better for bringing in younger players? From what I can tell it seems a little more intuitive and high-level as opposed to nitty-gritty like d20 was.

3) That makes sense, and that's kind of unfortunate. So you're basically stuck with guess-timating based on the stats you have in front of you? That's kind of unfortunate, and I guess you could take some time to come up with something but it sounds like it won't be a last minute thing.

[coldskier0320]

Yeah, it's unfortunate, and it doesn't seem like a straight XP equivalence holds up either (since there is far more XP used at character creation than during various progressions).

A further implication of this flaw is that it's pretty much impossible to get a reasonable capability level-to-XP equivalent too. For example, in the WotC environment, if you wanted to start a game for a squad of skilled Rebel SpecOps agents, you might have everyone draw up a L6 or even L8 character form the very start, representing the experience the characters would have gained just to get to the point where the adventure kicks off. In this system, there's not really any way to account for that, to my knowledge. Even something as simple as a chart correlating various "careers" to total XP for a character considered experienced in that field would be great (better still, XP levels for "beginner, experienced, and advanced" within a given role). So that you could look at it and find "Imperial Customs Agent, Advanced: 3500 XP", or "Information Broker, Beginner: 2000 XP"...or more specifically: "Typical Bothan SpyNet Field Agent: 3375 XP".

It's currently my biggest holdup with the system. It makes a huge assumption that everyone is starting off with a green character every time.

[Mack Jace]

Yeah, it's unfortunate, and it doesn't seem like a straight XP equivalence holds up either (since there is far more XP used at character creation than during various progressions).

A further implication of this flaw is that it's pretty much impossible to get a reasonable capability level-to-XP equivalent too. For example, in the WotC environment, if you wanted to start a game for a squad of skilled Rebel SpecOps agents, you might have everyone draw up a L6 or even L8 character form the very start, representing the experience the characters would have gained just to get to the point where the adventure kicks off. In this system, there's not really any way to account for that, to my knowledge. Even something as simple as a chart correlating various "careers" to total XP for a character considered experienced in that field would be great (better still, XP levels for "beginner, experienced, and advanced" within a given role). So that you could look at it and find "Imperial Customs Agent, Advanced: 3500 XP", or "Information Broker, Beginner: 2000 XP"...or more specifically: "Typical Bothan SpyNet Field Agent: 3375 XP".

It's currently my biggest holdup with the system. It makes a huge assumption that everyone is starting off with a green character every time.

Hmmmm, yeah I wasn't even thinking about that. That's rough, and unfortunate, because most games I've ever played started off post-level 1. Sounds like it's great to get first timers into the game, but as far as getting veterans into it would be a lot harder. I'll probably pick it up at some point and take a flip through. I was just on the website earlier though, and I noticed just how many supplements they've got for it...that's a lot of dough to drop if you're going to want access to different types of characters.

[coldskier0320]

Is that very different from any other system, though? You can still play a snubjock without the specific supplement, but there's a book for extended options if you want it. In d20 terms, you've got your core classes, then PrC options in supplements...just with the FFG system, you have access to those "PrC" options right from the beginning. I consider the wide variety (and more planned!) of support books for the game a great sign...and it inspires more of my confidence in FFG than any other single aspect of their product.

I'm still holding out hope that FFG will do some sort of "crunchy" book aimed at GMs that will address the issue of scaling I've already described, and I'm kind of bummed they don't seem inclined to put out any "catalog" style books like the Hero's Guide, Arms & Equipment Guide, and too many from WEG to list...but I can see the rationale. Doling out stats for weapons, ships, and gear a little at a time is a great way to get people to buy supplements they might otherwise skip.

[Mack Jace]

True, I guess I'm just used to the WotC way of having books that cover a wide variety of stuff. Although now that I think of it, there were definitely moments where I wished there were more specifics as opposed to general things. And you've got a point, there is definitely a wide variety and that will certainly help to entice people to the game, especially newcomers.

Crunchy books would be awesome, I agree. And yeah, I always liked having the A&EG around, getting a chance to buy new weapons for my character was like waiting for Christmas with that book around!

Either way I think I'm definitely going to have to pick this up.

[Donovan Morningfire]

I very much enjoy FFG's system, much more than I did most of the WotC versions.

The production quality on the books has been A+ across the board, particularly in terms of artwork.

The dice system takes a little getting used to in contrast to more traditional pass/fail systems, as less experienced characters will have a tendency to succeed with a consequence (success + threat) or fail with a benefit (failure + advantage). As far as on-the-fly interpretation of results, particularly how Advantage and Threat are applied, the GM's best resource is the players; making use of them will take a lot of the burden off the GM's shoulders.

As for "advanced" characters, this system isn't much different than WEG d6 in that regard, as it's just as likely to tell a WEG group that they've got so many extra dice for skills at char-gen and wind up with characters that are of wildly varying degrees of competence in combat. That said, against the run of the mill foes, most PCs can get by in the early going with a singe rank in a combat skill (typically Ranged: Light since that's what blaster pistols fall under) and a 2 in Agility; they won't be doing great, but they won't be entirely useless either. And with how the dice pool is determined, it's not too hard to build up a decent attack pool simply by raising that one combat skill, even if it's not a career skill.

XP awards can very much vary depending on the GM; the suggestion from primary designer Jay Little was 5XP for each actual hour of gaming, along with an XP award for playing to your character's Motivation, which would be about 20XP a session given your typical 4 hour session (about an hour of which is usually spent on non-game conversations and eating).

[Korpil]

Hi everyone!

I starting roleplaying again less than a year ago, I moved to a new city, found a Star Wars fan club and got them hooked on RPG, we've had few sessions so far, but our last was so memorable they want to keep playing ASAP!

I took the chance to play FFG and I'm extremely satisfied! The system is simple, easy to learn, easy to understand and allows for a lot of creativity, both from the players and the GM.

Regarding the 3rd point that was discussed, in the main rulebook I have, Edge of Empire, there is a section on adversaries, and there you can pick an opponent that can match your group's experience.

Unfortunately for economic reasons I haven't been able to get more books, but I'm definitely investing more in the system as soon as I have a chance!

[hisham]

Unfortunately for economic reasons

You and me both, brother.

Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Korpil!

[Heirophant_X]

I made the mistake of waiting for a perfect storm of a Barnes and Noble discount coupon I could stack with end of year/holiday sale and fired off the order for Force and Destiny. And while it was delivered to the mail depot like 3 days later I have been waiting since 2 Jan for it to float across the effing ocean. Crom! If they weren't so pricey I'd have probably nabbed EoE and the Rebellion one on Prime by now. At least I get prime stuff in a reasonable time frame...

[Korpil]

You and me both, brother.

Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Korpil!

Thank you so much!